Oak Tree

Can you have a pile of glowing charcoal? Some fire bans allow for this, some don't. Also, sometimes when fire bans say no 'open fires', they still allow for fires in an enclosed container, like a cooking grill or a home fire pit. You could use one of those for the campfire. Another alternative is to have a fake campfire made with orange crepe paper, sticks, and a light source. (And even a blower, if you're creative enough.) There must be all kinds of events you could put in place of a fire-starting contest. First, I'd want to confirm that there's no way to hold the contest. As above, there might be options. But if not...how about an arrow-making station? Have the kids carve their own arrowheads. I don't know if that would work or not - but really, it should be easy enough to look down the list and find a new station to add. How about a timber-pull? See how long it takes to drag a downed tree from the stump to the homestead. Erect a teepee. Assemble a small log cabin wall. Tan a squirrel hide (ok, it might be hard to come up with the supplies for that on short notice.)

I recently attended Den Chief training with some of my new den chiefs. One of the boys was just stunned that there was no test, no proficiency demonstration, no nothing, that was required in order to get the Trained strip. Now, he's coming from a school environment where tests are a normal part of existence, and you don't get credit unless you pass. I was so used to this aspect of Scout training that I hadn't thought about it much for awhile, but I do think that if you wanted training to mean more, then requiring some test to be passed would be a reasonable idea. I took IOLS and Scoutmaster-specific training, and those had to be two of the worst courses I've ever had the misfortune of sitting through. I couldn't figure out what they were trying to teach us. Were they teaching us basic skills that we could pick up with a glance at the book? Were they teaching us how to teach Scouts? (If so, they missed the mark entirely.) Most of us had been around Scouting for awhile, and all the material seemed geared at someone who had never heard of Scouts before. So you sit there, let them tell you a bunch of stuff that you already know or could read in the handbook yourself, and then, bam, you're trained. I would have been very happy for a pre-test that you could take and just place out of the course. Training does provide some contacts, and it reinforces some ideas. I liked the Cub Scout training (NLE, YPT, Cub Scout position-specific). Troop Committee Challenge was reasonable. University of Scouting is usually pretty good. But most non-Scouting courses that provide certification do require that you pass some type of exam at the end. I know what Eamonn means about discouraging those that don't pass - and I'm not sure what the overall effect would be - but I would lean toward having some type of test at the end (or the beginning).

I had never heard the rule that you couldn't wear both, although I do agree that they are redundant. Most of our den chiefs do have a position in the troop, and wear their troop position patch (e.g. patrol leader), along with the den chief cord. But there is usually one den chief who doesn't have any other position in the troop, and he wears both the patch and the cord. I'd be curious to see a citation for the above-mentioned policy.

There will always be one boy in the troop who really likes fire.

Mike, Yes, I agree with you generally. The cable company does offer some flexibility, and the BSA does try to insure some uniformity. But I'd contend that the cable company offers a lot less flexibility than the BSA. When you get a channel, there's pretty good agreement on whether it is coming in perfectly or not. I don't think Scouts has that same vision of what perfect delivery of the service looks like. You want a backpacking troop? Is that for short trips or long? Patrol cooking or pairs? How much adult leadership? How will the costs be split? What lessons do we try to teach on each trip? Is there a morning devotion? How do we pair the boys up? How gruff is the Scoutmaster? How well do the parents get along? How much emphasis is put on advancement? on uniforming? What type of fundraisers will they do? What are the ages of the boys in the troop? Do they all have Asberger's? How chaotic are things? And so on. Troops are just very different, in my experience, even while they are the same in some important ways. I did agree with your interpretation of the original question - and it's not a bad question. I was just offering another way to approach the idea.

I'm not sure that "Would I recommend Scouting?" is the ultimate question in our case. Unlike a cable company, which oversees all aspects of its service and tries to ensure a uniform customer experience, BSA does not do that. I do think that it's a good question for a unit to ask itself. "Would you recommend Troop XYZ to your friends and neigbors?" But if someone asked whether I'd recommend Scouting in general, I'd really want to know which unit they were talking about.

Kudu, My experience is that National Forests are definitely different from National Parks. National Forests are some of the best possible places to camp if you want to have as few rules as possible. I'm always amazed at how relaxed they are, given how restrictive most other government agencies are. I don't know that I can speak for all national forests, but the several that I've seen have all been very open. Scout camps can be a lot like this as well. You live in a great part of the country for having lots of options. National Parks can be somewhere in between. Some of them encourage lots of backcountry camping, but others have a lot more rules. The Great Smoky Mountains have lots of backcountry camping, for example, but it's permitted only at designated sites and shelters. State Parks tend to be "camp where we say it's ok", and commercial campgrounds are even more restrictive.

Here's a quote from scouting.org: "Pick a Subject. Talk to your Scoutmaster about your interests. Read the requirements of the merit badges you think might interest you. Pick one to earn. Your Scoutmaster will give you the name of a person from a list of counselors." (bold is my formatting.) That seems pretty clear. I agree that parents can be counselors. I agree that BSA policy would trump troop policy. But BSA policy is that the Scoutmaster gives the name, as near as I can tell. And he can choose the parent, or he can choose someone else. http://www.scouting.org/BoyScouts/GuideforMeritBadgeCounselors/Review/MeritBadges.aspx I normally let my Scouts choose from the list themselves. But I'd reserve the right to steer them away from counselors that seemed way too easy (or way too hard, for that matter).

The BSA description of getting a counselor is that the SM will provide the name of the counselor. So I think that a Scoutmaster could certainly choose not provide a boy with his dad's name. I don't believe the troop's policy contradicts BSA policy, so long as the Scoutmaster is on board with the policy. I'm with Beavah - this appears to be a common practice, and seems reasonable and permissible to me. The BSA rule is that you are allowed to be a counselor for your own son - but it doesn't say the Scoutmaster is required to assign a dad.

The typical advice they refer to is that of drinking eight glasses of eight ounces of water each day. This advice is fairly prevalent, and has also been the subject of several rebuttals recently. It turns out there's no evidence that a normal person needs to, or benefits from, drinking that much water.

A pack doesn't have to do popcorn or FOS. Our first year as a pack we were focused on raising money to get started. We told the council that if any families in our pack had money to donate to Scouting, we were going to ask them to donate to the pack first. They didn't try to force us to do FOS. I do think it's odd that councils can't charge any fees, and have to raise it all. I think that the amount of money it takes to support the council would drop significantly if we didn't have to pay all those people who spend so much of their time fund-raising. I think both Eamonn and LisaBob have good points, and at times I've found myself agreeing with each of them. In fact, hardly any youth activities are fully self-supporting. Most get donations from someone, or get some tax-support, or local community support, or whatever. But most also are not free. The only question is where do you draw the line. I think it would be fair for councils to charge something. I do wonder what all that money goes for. We've talked about this before, and I know that there's no way our units are getting their money's worth if it's costing the council $120 per boy to support us.

"Some UC's were asked not ever to do a presentation!!" Been there. Every year our district commissioner tries to force his way into doing the FOS presentation for us. Every year we politely tell him that we've got it covered (repeatedly), while behind the scenes we look at each other and talk about how we never ever want him to do a presentation for us.

Ah, Gern, don't stop dreaming!!!

Eamonn, I loved the story. I can picture the whole thing, including the frustration building over the whole thing. Great ending. You are right, that it's not the insignia that we respect, it's the people that earn them. And as others have indicated, it's not the award, it's the work and the boys that really indicate success. I'm sure I could have phrased my question more precisely. If you didn't know anything about a Scouting volunteer except for seeing him in his uniform, what insignia would give you an indication that you would be likely to respect the person and the work he has done with Scouts and/or for Scouting? GW - Tut, tut. Please don't criticize other people's choices on this thread. Feel free to spin off a thread on the topic. On topic...I've never seen a Sea Badge knot on a uniform that I can remember, but I'd respect the effort that went into taking that course.

Well, I didn't say I tried really hard... :-) I've seen your web site before, and it's great. I'm not sure why it didn't pop up when I searched this time. At any rate, that means they've had those patches in the store for at least 13 years. Might be time for some type of computerized inventory check.

I've noticed that, too, and I assume the list of animals to be exclusive. I believe it is a practical choice. It's too easy to turn over a rock and identify 10 insects. We want the boys to be looking around in the woods as part of their first experience. At least, that's my assumption about the reasoning behind the requirement.

Ok, Gern, just for you, I rifled through the Backpacker Gear Guide to see what solo four-season tents they list. In addition to the Black Diamond OneShot that you found, I found the following: GoLite Xanadu 1 - http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=SH6110&s=1 Hilleberg Akto - http://www.hilleberg.com/2006%20Products/NewAkto.htm Hilleberg Unna - http://www.hilleberg.com/2006%20Products/NewUnna.htm Hilleberg Soulo - http://www.hilleberg.com/2006%20Products/NewSoulo.htm Sierra Designs Assailant 1 - http://www.sierradesigns.com/tents.display.php?id=780 These are some great looking tents. All but the Akto are freestanding. Of these freestanding tents, the Assailant is the cheapest and lightest, and is a seriously wicked looking tent. It's not quite as cheap or as light as the OneShot, but it does have some room inside for your gear. The lower profile looks highly wind-resistant, but I would probably take the OneShot for the higher roof. Might depend on how tall you are. So many fun things to look at...

I probably could have chosen a different first example. I didn't mean to imply that money is more important than time. All the same, I do appreciate those people who donate money, as we clearly need both money and time in order to run a successful Scouting program. Another award I respect is the Cubmaster's knot. Having watched some good Cubmasters run their packs, I think this is one of the hardest working jobs in Scouting, and a good Cubmaster can make it great for the boys.

Let's say a leader earned all the awards that you most admire in another leader. What would such a uniform look like? What piece (or pieces) of uniform insignia do you think says a lot about another leader's commitment to the program? I'll start with the item that this was spun from: the leader would have the James E West knot along with two devices - the Founders Circle device and the 1910 Society device. Ground rule for the thread - please don't argue against another poster's choice. Just tell us what you do admire.

Very cool, Eamonn. I'll say that I'm pretty familiar with the Insignia Guide, and I have never heard mention of the devices for the James E West knot.

Note that the boyscouttrail.com site is unofficial. They may put their own suggestions on this, but those guidelines are not found in any official document. I will count nights camping since birth. The "no Cub Scouts" line does not appear in any official documentation that I've ever seen. I've seen different places that list different restrictions, and any or all of them might be reasonable, but the only criteria I've seen is that the Scoutmaster has to agree that it counts.

I was at our Scout store and they had some Assistant Scoutmaster - Varsity patches. I suggested they put them on eBay, since they clearly weren't going to be getting any requests for them. They must have been sitting in a dusty box in the back of the store for how long? I tried to figure it out with a a quick google search, but I don't know when Varsity officially stopped being part of a troop.

I interpret it as 100 nights of camping. I'd say it's 100 separate events, where each event is a day/night. In practice, it's not obvious to decide what a "day" of camping is. If you arrive at 7:00pm? 4:00pm? noon? If you depart at 8:00am? noon? 4:00pm? But it's generally pretty obvious what a night of camping is. At least, that's how we interpret it in our troop. I'd think you'd have to be really stretching the interpretation to say that it meant that that 50 days and 50 nights = 100 days and nights.

Does this mean we can drop the mouth shield from the list of items for the "assemble your own first aid kit"? That's a welcome change. I hated when people would ask me how to track those down.

sssdigger, many councils do not require tour permits for short in-town outings.