Oak Tree

Units complete this form when planning for local, national, or international adventure. The plan helps ensure the unit is properly prepared, that qualified and trained leadership is in place, and that the right equipment is available for the adventure Note the absence of any insurance rationale given for why units should complete this form. This would be a perfect place to mention it if it were an actual requirement. I'll note that our council never enforced the 14 day rule. I don't expect it's going to start taking 21 days for them to rubber-stamp a tour permit. Any activities involving motorized vehicles as part of the program (snowmobiles, boating, etc.) I don't know about your unit, but mine does lots of boating activities that are not motorized. That's some odd wording. I don't expect that most councils will all of a sudden reject paper forms.

Why do you say that this person is a good COR? I'd say it's because it's very common in practice for a COR to be an inactive figurehead. Yes, the job responsibilities are as you list, officially. But it's very typical for a COR to act as you describe this guy acting. He could still wear the uniform and be associated with the unit, but can go on doing exactly what he's doing now, which is already what many/most CORs are doing too.

a defense of "I used common sense" won't fly if one adult is left with the troop because the only other adult took a Scout home. A defense against what? Using common sense and good judgment is a fine plan. Sure, plan ahead. Bring three adults if possible. Take an extra Scout or two with you to the ER. There are lots of dependencies here. What is the car situation? How far away from home are you? How long would it take for the second adult to get back to camp? Do you have cell phone coverage? You might even consider having both adults go to the hospital, depending on the Scouts you're leaving behind and what type of access to resources they have (phones, rangers, cars, etc).

There's no prohibition on it. I'm not aware that National runs any kind of background check and automatically disqualifies certain people. In practice, I see a couple of possibilities. One is that it doesn't even make it into the data that goes to the district Eagle board of review, they don't know about it, and there's no issue. The other is that the district board does know about it or is told about it. Then the question is whether they will view it as disqualifying. This might depend very much on your district board. Either way, I don't know that I'd start off with a call to National. How are your district boards held? Are you familiar with who runs them? Do you think they'd even know about the ticket?

"With a 9-boy den you're looking at 72 races." No, only 36 races. That could still go pretty quickly - maybe a half-hour.

Our pack typically does two ceremonies, one right after the other. That way, we can seamlessly work in boys who have one or the other or both. But you can do them any place and any time you like.

Yes, I'm with the others. I don't see any harm in having the hands off COR/CC. If they want to continue with both roles, I would appoint someone who understands the situation to the committee and tell them that they are the committee vice-chairman, or some such title. You could call it ACM if that works better for you, but I'd go the route of trying to get a functioning committee. A well-respected figurehead could be an asset.

The absolutely stupidest part of CS Advancement is re-earning the belt loops for Webelos pins. That idea was just awful. I concur that the Wolf and Bear requirements are too complicated. Even Webelos - it can be a real pain to figure out which camping trip counts for which requirement. I like outings, but it can be hard to coordinate a lot of those. I definitely like the idea of more active things, and less writing/classroom lecture. And actually, I'm fine with the age ranges - that doesn't look to be much of an issue for us.

When I was at Philmont they didn't describe the uniforming as a myth, nor as policy. They called it a tradition. That works for me.

I've attended both pack and troop committees for a number of years (over 10 years of elapsed time), and I cannot recall any vote we've ever taken in either organization. Maybe I'm just lucky. As for by-laws, or troop policies, or troop logistics - you can call it whatever you want, but you do have them. They may be unwritten, but I can see an advantage in putting them down on paper. Somewhere you have a rule that says what your dues are, when your troop meets, when your PLC meets. You might have information on who owns the troop trailer, whether you have your own EIN, when your committee meets, whether there are any forbidden items on camping trips, etc. How do you pay for trips? Etc. I'm fine with having some of these documented - I'd even say it's a good thing.

Interesting talk - TED is a great place to look for interesting ideas. Here Ali Carr-Chellman discusses video games, teacher attitudes, zero tolerance policies. She mentions Scouting at least twice in passing.

Real truth, real freedom - are very powerful. And why do we need to be a broker at all?

I'd like a Cub Scout Requirements book that lists all of the awards available to Cub Scouts - even those that have individual councils or units setting the requirements.

In Boy Scouts, the official definition is that registered=active. Webelos have a slightly better definition. Personally I would define active for a given month as having attended at least one function in that month.

Scoutbox, If you're talking about requirement number IV, note that you only have to complete one of the three items, and the third item is to take on-line training. I think most of us could manage that.

that's still da purpose of uniforming, eh? To distinguish between people. I'd say it's definitely part of the point of the uniform to distinguish Scouts from non-Scouts. That's why we get all those stories about how people talk to you when they see you out traveling with the Scouts in uniform. The uniform also serves to distinguish the leadership positions. It serves to show the higher ranks and the lower. It can show who has the most merit badges, or the most knots, or the trained strip, or Wood Badge beads, or the Arrow of Light. For the Scouts, the uniform removes their non-Scouting differences, but it highlights their Scouting differences. A church youth group has no such indications. I do agree that clothing says something about you, depending on the situation. When my dad was a youth, jeans were indeed the uniform of the commoner. Work clothes. Never appropriate for any formal situation - school, church, Scouts, anywhere. He still can't bring himself to wear jeans. My generation, on the other hand, wears jeans everywhere. When I was in high school, 99% of the kids were wearing jeans on any given day. My workplace has lost much of its formality as well. It wasn't that long ago that engineers at Fortune 500 companies wore ties to work fairly regularly. Shorts were never worn. Now it's all jeans and shorts and flip-flops. And the work still all gets done. There does remain some of that uniform, though. If you are in marketing, you dress better. I don't think it's a rule, but if I want to see well-dressed people, that's where I go. As you move up with promotions, dress gets subtly better. It's not overt, but it's definitely there. Teachers generally dress better than the kids. The pastor dresses better than the congregation (on average). The TV newscaster dresses better than the cameraman. Is it because they are "better"? No. But they've earned a certain position - call it your "betters" or call it "positions of authority" or whatever. It's not everyone. It's not all the time. But it's there, for sure.

My experience with tents is that the cheap ones do not have rain flys that go all the way to the ground. I did buy cheap ones to start with - and it's a good first step, but if you're going to ever go camping in serious downpours, you want a serious tent. At least, that's my experience. I took my wife camping in a thunderstorm that sounded like someone was shooting off black-powder muskets in our tent while shooting off flashbulbs two-inches from our eyes. We had four of us in a six-man tent - and the tent was bomb-proof. We had not one drop of water inside. Best camping purchase I'd ever made - otherwise that night may have soured her on camping for good. My brother was in a cheap tent and his sleeping bag absorbed about 80 pounds of water that night. I had another trip where my son slept in a Wal-mart tent. It rained hard. His description was - "It felt like there was no roof on the tent at all." Your mileage may vary. I know some people have better luck with the cheap tents (or maybe with the weather). You definitely don't need an expensive tent. But sometimes it helps :-)

I would just cook French toast with eggs and milk, and serve with maple syrup. Could it be a container of pre-mixed batter? I'd think that would be an option. Is there going to be an adult with them? An older Scout? Yes, things could freeze. Unless you include significant alcohol in the batter, I don't think you can avoid that. They could keep the food somewhere warmer, or they could set the ingredients in a frying pan with warm water in it and let it thaw. I would definitely send a fork and a tinfoil pie pan.

As a Scoutmaster, here are my suggestions for what would be most useful. 1. Be available. When you need to sign leader applications or money-raising applications, respond promptly and make it easy to get your signature. 2. Be experienced enough to know that a rubber stamp works great a lot of the time. Most of the time we've already done all the vetting and all we need is the signature. 3. Understand the CO and why they've agreed to sponsor a Scout unit. What would convince them that they've made the right decision? Communicate those things to them. 4. Likewise, identify to the unit any concerns that the CO has and what the primary points are (mud in the hall, holding Sunday services, rearranging the rooms, service project completion, whatever). 5. Look out for issues that might affect all of the CO's units - Scout Sunday, maybe. There may be other places and times where I'd care about some of the other things, but as it is, I don't care if my COR comes to any meetings (committee, troop) or goes to any district or council meetings. The place he'd be most useful is in communicating with the CO. I do think he should have his leaders' backs (per John-in-KC), and he should know his leaders well enough to do that. If the COR would like to do more, then they certainly would be welcome to - I'd suggest checking with the Scoutmaster and CC to see what they could use the most help with.

I've seen cases in our district as well where one CO sponsors multiple packs, and not even with the same last three digits the way Brent's are. I don't remember which numbers they were, but they might as well have been Pack 308 and Pack 316 - no apparent connection at all from the numbers.

I agree, Nike. Although, for these purposes, I would count kayaking as a class of canoeing, and I would count snoeshoeing as a type of hiking. I would probably even count cross-country skiing as a form of hiking. As a general point, though, they clearly couldn't include every possible form of outdoor activity. There is nothing for hours spent on the climbing wall, or on the shooting range. Nothing for fishing, or downhill skiing, or snowboarding, or scuba. The only one that strikes me as a big omission is kayaking. I'd be curious to know if they intentionally left it off the list. I'm going to stick with counting it as time on the water, though. Per wikipedia (that authoritative source) - "kayak (sometimes generalised as a canoe)"

Oh, by the way, Beavah, I don't think my ideas are any special "pearls," I'm going to assume that choice of phrase was not meant in condescention toward me. I think Beavah just making a general point. Not only should you not cast your pearls before swine, you also shouldn't cast your costume jewelry, or pretty much any item of clothing, or much of anything else. I think the rest of us on the forum should be more offended that Beavah is comparing us with swine :-) It does take a little bit of getting used to, that whatever idea you post, it will get criticized. I think this is one reason why we don't get as many positive stories. The other reason is that people tend to post more about what isn't working than about what is working. I'd like to hear more positive stories, and I'd like to see a happier tone - but I will say that things are better now than they were away-back-when. It seems like there's very little moderator editing required these days, but it used to be much more common. I know this doesn't really help... It's a good reminder from time to time for people to post about how they are finding the negativity of the forum. It's a good chance for all of us to consider things as we proceed.

The discussion around innovation in general got me thinking about some of the "innovations" we've seen in Scouting recently. I wanted to understand which of these match up with traits for successful innovation and which may not. (And what is the difference between "innovation" and "change" in this context?) Leave No Trace Benefits to users: It's a simple, catchy phrase (easier than "Take only pictures, leave only footprints". It's easy to see how if everyone did it, the outdoors would be nicer. Simple, straightforward principles, does not require one person to really push to make it happen in a unit. New Quality Unit Calculations Benefits to users: It makes more sense. Also, it's graduated with different levels, rather than the prior yes/no. Drawback for users: You can't set your own goal. Will more units use them? If you knew you weren't going to make it, why even bother? In general, I like it. I think it may have some benefit to Scouting in general, so it might stick around. New Outdoor Achievement Award Benefits to users: You can get a new, meaningful award. Can be added up at any time - requirements are pretty straightforward. Drawback to users: Pain to keep track of. I like this innovation, too. We did not really have a good way to recognize this type of accomplishment before. Merging all of the Unit Leader Awards of Merit into one Benefits/Drawbacks to users: For any specific leader, the form has the same difficulty to fill out. Some find it easier and some find it harder to earn the award. For Scouting, it adds "consistency", but I put that in quotes because for me, this innovation destroyed any meaning this award had. It's trivial for a Cubmaster and next-to-impossible for a Venturing Advisor. I don't like this innovation and don't understand it at all. Dropping Venturing age to 13/8th grade Benefits to users: Get to join earlier. Easier to sign up a bunch of people at the same time. Consistent with how schools handle grades. Drawbacks: Get a few younger kids that lowers the average capability and/or exclusivity of the crew. I like this innovation. It's much easier to follow along with. I think that Varsity Scouts should do the same. There have been tons of other innovations in Scouting. Things are constantly changing. So - which recent innovations do you think are good (make things better, people like them and see some benefit) and which ones not so much (don't help, or wouldn't stick around without some mandate, or are overly dependent on one person to implement). (and I'm looking more for your description of what you like - and not so much for a long argument with Kudu over the entire directional philosophy of the program. Which specific changes have you liked or not liked?)

Many of the things listed here as innovation in Scouting are substantive changes to the program. Honestly, I don't know how those changes are made. Who decided to have Tiger Cubs? Some Cubmaster just decided to start enrolling kids one grade younger? Obviously, I ask rhetorically. Likewise, I can't change the expected job description of a commissioner (despite the fact that they are widely perceived as being of little to no value by many leaders), nor can I implement new required courses, nor how the chartering process works. So I don't know the answer to the question of where innovations come from at the grand all-Scouting level. I do think it can be useful to look at how they get rolled out, and how people react to them, and most people do have experience with that. I can think about how we've made changes in the troop. Usually they come from one person who sees something wrong and proposes a change. Then you have to get buy-in. Then you have roll-out. I'll take Eagledad's recommendations (as always, thoughtful and insightful) and adjust them into mine: 1. Innovation needs to naturally sustainable. Somehow, the work for the innovation to continue must be spread out amongst many people. It can't depend on one person consistently pushing other people to do something they don't really want to do. Sustainable innovation is that which can be regularized - either through a simply-stated policy ("Our pack camps four times per year"), or a requirement/prerequisite for something ("All leaders must be trained"), or a tradition ("Our troop recites the Outdoor Code at the beginning of every troop meeting.") 2. Innovation should provide an easily identifiable benefit to the people who have to implement it. This type of innovation catches on because people immediately see the value - and so it propagates itself. (a) Some other examples of innovations that have occurred: i. Introduction of the pinewood derby in Cub Scouts ii. Introduction of the Academics and then Sports & Academics belt loops in Cub Scouting iii. Internet-based training (not really specific to BSA, but a widely accepted innovation in the BSA) iv. Use of many new communication vehicles in troops - email lists, web sites, etc. v. Use of PackMaster/TroopMaster or similar programs On a troop level, some specific innovations might be vi. Assigning each patrol their own tents to own. vii. A particular fund-raiser that proves to be easy to do, fun, and with a significant return (b) Where to see more innovation Each troop might have their own places where they need to see some innovation. For general, Scouting-wide innovation, I do think the options listed earlier might be interesting on a behind-the-scenes level, although points i and ii here don't really show up for the Scouts nor for most Scout leaders: i. Charter process (although to be honest, I'm not sure how to phrase this as a problem amenable to an innovative solution) ii. Commissioner corps - "How can we best use our experienced volunteers as mentors across all of our units?" iii. Uniforms -"What would be most effective at getting people to like the uniform and/or boost recruiting/retention?" iv. Consistency - "How can we best insure that awards are roughly equivalent from troop to troop, district to district, approver to approver?" - Here I'm imagining things like merit badges (currently ranging from summer camp total disregard for requirements to some counselors who are real sticklers), or Eagle rank, which has a wide variety in interpretation of what is a sufficient project from council to council. v. Outdoor traditions - "Is there something else like the Klondike Derby that could be a successful outdoor district tradition? Anything at all for those units in the south?"

So much of this depends on what issues you see for the unit, how much the Scoutmaster wants your help, what the other adults have as their expectations - in short, any tips that are general enough to apply to everyone are pretty high-level. 1. Be on the same page as your Scoutmaster. What does he want your help with? My experience is that it's not normally the committee chairman who gets involved in the details of the Webelos transition, nor in setting the specifics of the outdoor program. The things you are describing doing sound more like what I would expect from a new, enthusiastic ASM. Now, your SM may be fine with having your help on this. He may welcome it, in fact. I'd ask him what parts of the program he think need the most work, and what you could do to support him in working on those. 2. In keeping with the "one vision" thing, see Eagledad's comments. Get everyone on the same vision. The best way to get willing volunteers is that they have an understanding and appreciation of what you all are trying to accomplish by running a troop - if they are with you on the vision, they are much more willing to be with you on the logistics. Whatever you can do to get all the adults to pull together is a great help as CC. 3. Ask for help. Ask specific people to do specific things. Too many units become dependent on too few people - and when those people either burn out or their kids age out or whatever, the unit suffers. Delegation is essential. 4. Communicate. In particular, communicate with your committee members. Be available for communication with parents. You want to be visible, supportive, known and liked. You need to communicate regularly to make that happen. Those are my four general tips. In regards to a few more of your specific questions: Put together a troop calendar for the next year So this IS the responsibility of the committee? I've suggested several times that the boys need serious guidance with this issue - but I'm always told 'If we do that it isn't boy run.' That gets back to the 'one vision' issue. Who is telling you that the boys need to do it? If it's the SM, you're going to have serious issues trying to override his style. If it's someone else, they should direct that comment to the SM. The traditional "official" way to do the calendar is for the boys to plan it and come to the committee for approval. We normally have a few adults working with the Scouts on getting that plan together, suggesting other things that they might want to consider, etc. We usually have some type of brainstorming session where all of the Scouts and adults get to throw some ideas up on the board, and then discussion comes around to what the preferences are. The boys typically have some way to vote. Your troop may be entirely different. Really - I think you can do this any way you want to. The more buy-in you can get from the Scouts, the more likely they'll be to want to go on the trips that they've come up with. But an entirely adult-planned calendar could work fine, too, I suspect. What does your Scoutmaster want to do? My personal philosophy is that the adults need to make sure the framework is in place for a successful unit, and that includes making sure there is an annual plan in place. The boys have a lot of freedom within that framework, and they are even free to change the framework if they want, but if the boys won't put a plan in place, I won't let the absence of a plan lead to disorganization, confusion, frustration. Certain things I'm going to insist that we have. Other Scoutmasters may view it differently. My biggest concern is sitting on my hands long enough to let the dust settle from me stepping in before I start to make wholesale changes. This is a good concern to have. There is an art to making changes. Quite honestly, I would never expect a new CC to make wholesale changes, unless the old CC had been in direct conflict with the SM. What all wholesale changes are you planning on making, and how does the SM feel about those? Who is going to object to the changes? It's normally the Scoutmaster who sets the tone for the troop, not the CC. So much of this depends upon the particular interpersonal dynamics that you're working with, it's hard to give general advice. Am I missing something or is there no way to quote on these forums? Nope, you're not missing anything. That's why everyone quotes previous comments differently.