Oak Tree

It's right there in the online GS22 in the unauthorized activities. "Pointing any type of firearm or simulated firearm at any individual is unauthorized. Scout units may plan or participate in paintball, laser tag or similar events where participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations." A deer representation looks to be fine.

Do you need to? No. Might you want to? Yes. There's no guarantee that would help, though. You could just throw gasoline on the fire. Do almost all of the other adults agree with you? What do you think should happen? What I would do first in this situation is to get a few adults to have an "intervention" with the SM, to convince him that this is really hurting the troop and it's not good to just wait it out. This would probably involve the current CC in our troop. At that point the SM (preferably) and/or CC could decide how to approach. If the COR doesn't know the personalities involved, it's going to take him or her awhile to sort things out, and most COR's are going to rely on the CC/SM to work through an issue with an ASM. Why would the COR not take the recommendation of those two people? It depends much more on the people involved than it does on their specific titles. The commissioner may or may not be any help. At best, he or she can help you work through the issues.

Good luck to all. Thanks for the report. What kinds of medical emergencies did you hear about?

Depends if it is caused by [...] Actually, it should not depend on what caused it. Just as a broken leg would be a disability whether you did it on purpose or not, so would being overweight. It either interferes with your daily life or it doesn't. Besides, it is quite difficult to pinpoint causation here amongst a whole variety of factors. The message to the brain that you've eaten enough food can come from varying levels of ghrelin and leptin. The number of dopamine receptors in the striatum is associated with your body mass. The natural level of movement in your body burns off varying amounts of calories. Your cultural upbringing leads to all sorts of messages associated with food. Some causes may be easier than others to identify, but everyone has some "reason".

Twocub, I asked the question from an academic point of view in the sense that I'm not aware of someone who failed. As someone who occasionally watches swim tests in the troop, though, I was curious as to how much instruction people would give to Scouts to hold still. We had one Scout last time who was pretty much treading water and we tried to get him to stop moving anywhere near that much. When I was in the water, it didn't matter how deeply I tried to suck in air, I could not get enough to make my body buoyant. I could stay on the bottom a long time with all that air. It was kind of a fun "pool trick" to do. I remember my dad getting mad at me once because he had started to worry that I'd drowned. As a father now, I sympathize. Eagle707 - yes, the comment makes perfect sense. The mechanism, I guess, is that when people are tense, they don't take in much air, and hence they sink. Once they relax and breathe more deeply, they are ok. I think that's exactly right. Wasn't meaning to contradict that sense of what you were saying - just happened to hit one of my pet topics. I didn't really feel "gifted" with more muscle mass - I was quite skinny (very low body fat), and didn't have a lot of upper body strength, but I had substantial thigh and calf muscles.

What is he extent of the patrol vs. troop equipment..... stoves, propane, lantern(s), dinnerware, dutch ovens, bow saw, kitchen tarp/EZup, folding tables, tents, backpacks, etc.? Troop: dutch ovens, saw/ax, large tarp shelter, tables Patrols: tents (working to get there), stoves, lanterns, cooking/cleaning gear Individual: dinnerware, backpack We have the assistant patrol leader do the function of a patrol quartermaster. Do you use troop funds (or donations) to provide tents (or other equipment) for checkout by patrols or do you purchase patrol tents or use individual/personal tents or have patrol money-raising events to purchase their own equipment? Troop funds/donations. If troop or patrol owned equipment (like a tent) is damaged due to misuse, is/are the individual(s), that patrol or the entire troop responsible for repair/replacement? I actually can't recall a significant incident in this regard. All damage has been relatively normal wear and tear. The only time I've had an individual be responsible for damage was a small but obvious damaged item at the CO.

I'm with Basementdweller. There was one troop who used them - I just found it annoying. It generates complaints, comments, dust, noise, walking obstacles, etc. It did not appear that the adults needed them. I have no problem with the disabled using them, but this troop used them regularly to get their adults to meals.

I agree, Calico. Some people think of "float" and imagine someone with their toes, their tummy, and their face out of the water. In fact, a good float can easily be just a couple inches of face that includes your mouth. Now that I've added some body fat in my adult life, I can easily float. As a teenager, though, I could not float by any definition. I did not suspend a few inches below the surface. I sank. The only way I stopped sinking was by hitting bottom or by adding some upward force with my arms or legs.

Fscouter, I don't think you are understanding the opposite position. There are people who hear the phrase "simulated firearms" to include marshmallow guns. I personally find that to be a reasonable interpretation of the sentence, if not a reasonable policy. You can continue to argue that it's not a policy, but it's a plausible interpretation of the G2SS. I love Twocub's analysis, though, and I think he's exactly right. I'd add to that, no matter what National says, there are going to be those who over-interpret it and those who under-interpret it, and that if National were to try to right something in sufficient detail with all the caveats and definitions, you'd end up with something more like the legal code, which is not usually user-friendly for the general public to read. Another possibility is that Richard does see the point of this argument, but because he officially speaks for the BSA, he can't just throw out his own personal interpretation; it would have to be something that he made sure there was institutional backing for.

In the parent thread, we had this quote: If you cannot float, you cannot swim. I find this to be patently untrue. There is some percentage of people who can't float, based on their muscle/fat ratio. When I was a lad, I couldn't float at all. I could take a big, deep breath, stop moving, and sink to the bottom of the pool where I could sit, stand, kneel, roll over, whatever. I could stay down a long time. Repositioning my body was not going to help. I therefore am inclined to find the "rest by floating" requirement to be an odd duck - something a bit on the literal impossible side for some people - like "stand up straight and be less than six feet tall" or something. We generally let people move their arms a bit to help with the floating if necessary. I'm presuming that's a normal interpretation, but I don't know. What do you do a boy who can't float?

Right, EagleWB, that's the time that they mean the same thing. In other situations, they don't. But that doesn't really matter - I'm not sure why we're even discussing it, although it's an interesting aside. The quote in question is Pointing any type of firearm or simulated firearm at any individual is unauthorized. Most water pistols are clearly made in the resemblance of a real pistol (one of the definitions of "simulated"). No, they aren't an exact simulation, but that is not normally the expectation. I guess I could go with another definition of "simulation", which is "made to look genuine". I can then say that a water pistol does not actually appear to be a genuine firearm, and is therefore ok. The BSA bans laser tag and paintball guns, and those don't look exactly like real firearms either, so it would appear that the rule would apply to more than airsoft guns. I think that it's common for people to interpret this rule as meaning "nothing that resembles a gun or might pretend to be a gun or might be called a gun should be pointed at another person."

Well, Get Outdoors, there is definitely a fix for that problem if you want. Just go over to the next council that sells patches to anyone. Or just ask on the forum here and I'm sure someone would be happy to purchase them for you. Our council shop will sell merit badges to anyone. They do require paperwork for rank badges, but you can generally get extras of those too, if you have a good reason (e.g., second shirt, lost badge).

Camping without going to the camping store!?!? Sure, I could, but why???? The camping store is fun, I love to walk around, drool, buy stuff, try it, learn I may not have actually needed all those fancy features, learn that some of those fancy features don't really work, learn that some of those features really do work and when you want one particular feature it can be really nice to have. Camping without the store? You might as well ask if I'd like to go camping in the rain without a raincoat. Sure, you could do it. [Leans back, closes eyes, imagines himself walking around store...] Ahhhhhh

So...whats the easiest way to tell him he is done with advancing in rank because the BSA will not let him advance any further without learning to swim? Well, that sure seems like a loaded question. Surely a boy can figure out by reading his handbook that he needs to be able to swim to advance in rank. Why do you need to tell him anything? Also, the way you phrase it as "the BSA will not let him" seems to come from a different point of view than I'd take. The BSA isn't stopping him from advancing. The BSA has set out some requirements for Second Class. The boy can either complete them or not.

When I hear "best practice", I actually think "possible good idea". This seems like a reasonably good idea to me - after all, that's part of what I use this forum for, looking for some best practices. At least, that's what I thought when I started using this forum :-) Actually, I get some good ideas, but the sharing of best practices is a bit less than I'd hoped, primarily because anyone who posts an idea has to be prepared to hear all the reasons why it really isn't such a great idea. So maybe a moderated list will be even better. We'll see. I don't know if people will submit a lot, but it seems worth a try.

gun and firearm are synonyms BTW Well, it depends on what you mean by synonym. If you mean that a thesaurus might suggest that in some situations one word could be used instead of the other, then sure, they are synonyms. If you are trying to suggest that they mean the same thing when referring to a class of items, then I'd have to ask, have you actually looked the words up? They do not, in any sense, mean the same thing in that regard. Go ahead, pick a dictionary and check it out. We'll wait. Many, many things can be dangerous, but we don't ban them all. Staple guns, paint guns, dart guns, water guns, are these really more dangerous than axes, hammers, stoves, rocks, and sharp sticks?

Are we above reproach, never to be questioned by the youth we lead? Ask away, ye Scouts! Feel free to talk and discuss and question. If it's a rule that I tell you is a real, written rule, I'll find you the reference. In the meantime, get along and follow the rule cause I say so - but if it turns out I'm wrong, I'll gladly apologize. First off, naturally, through the wisdom of the forum, I am hardly ever wrong :-) But more importantly, I respect those who admit their mistakes much more than those who aren't willing to think they might be wrong. I *know* the Scouts will respect me more, not less, if I admit a mistake.

Wilbur the White-Tailed Antelope Squirrel

I'm sorry, but maybe someone could explain the two signature thing to me. How does it help? If I were going to steal money from the account, I could easily forge two signatures. I could probably even sign my own name twice. Anything will get through the system, as far as I can tell. So I really don't understand how requiring two signatures adds any security at all, but it does add a complication. Do the banks even check that there are actually two signatures on the check?

It's lucky that there was someone around who knew the account existed and knew enough to follow up on it. I'm guessing the ex-Cubmaster was just hoping no one noticed, and it seems entirely possible that he might have gotten away with it. Maybe if he had just taken all the money and closed the account right away. We have lawyers on our committee too - they're happy to send a note on legal letterhead - it's an easy thing for them to do. Thanks for the story. It's easy to imagine something like this happening as things gradually fall apart at the end of a unit's life-cycle.

Most merit badges do not have a clear proficiency test the way Archery does. I think I'd respect them a bit more if they did. Athletics had a standard for a long time but they recently got rid of that. Hiking, Cycling, Backpacking, Camping all require a substantial effort, but pretty much anyone can do them. My experience at summer camp is that everyone passes Rifle Shooting, some have trouble with Shotgun Shooting, and everyone has trouble with Archery. Snow Sports and (Ice) Skating are two that can't be done by just anyone with some minimal practice. Probably Water Sports too. Lifesaving is more serious, but usually only the good swimmers even attempt it. I've never had another merit badge be a big issue where a counselor was holding a higher standard than the Scout could meet. I've seen it with Swimming. I've seen badges where the counselor had a much more extensive idea of what "discuss" meant than the Scout did, but that mostly involved the counselor talking the Scout to death about what it means to be an American.

we've been using (I think) a web-only interface for a few months, which can then sync back to our Advancement Chair's PC. Right - so most of you are using the web interface, but the Advancement Chair has the "master copy" and has to sync up with the web version from time to time. Also, he or she has access to more features on the local software than are available on the web. This is relatively close to what I'd like, but I'd want all of the features to be available on the web. Once they have that, I'd be ok with their model.

Eagle92, I'd be curious to see the reference. You can see the ordinances of the town of Cary at American Legal Publishing at http://www.amlegal.com/library/nc/cary.shtml I searched on the words knife and knives and the only hit was this one dealing with carrying knives in the town parks [emphasis mine]No person shall carry a knife upon his person having a blade of three inches or longer or have possession of or discharge a BB gun, air rifle, bow and arrow or any other type of lethal weapon in any park except at public exhibitions and with a permit from the director of parks and recreation.

Yeah, I'm not sure I get the level of hostility either. I look back at scoutgroove's first thread, where he asked whether such a site would be useful, and got relatively polite responses. When he later posts that now there actually is such a site, he gets beaten up. I was trying to identify the cause here. One obvious thing is that now the first post is very much like an ad. In general, the readers of the forum don't want to have threads on every possible Scouting product, so threads that are ads feel a bit like spam. Still, it seems like there could be a bit more courtesy involved. Other points could be that the site looks to be unfinished and a wee bit expensive. With both of those traits, the poster comes across more as someone looking to make money rather than as someone offering a service. If the site had still been free ("I threw this together - do you think this is in the direction that people would like?") then maybe the reaction wouldn't have been quite so harsh. As for using the Scout logo - yep, you'd have to make sure you're licensed. Suing isn't likely to happen until after you ignore a cease and desist letter. It does seem a bit over the top to crow about turning him in, but que sera sera, c'est la vie, or in today's youth parlance, "whatever".

Yeah, the Cary knife ban is just a myth, as far as I can tell. I think Eagle92 keeps mentioning it just to tweak me. Mostly we eat chickens of which the boys have personally sliced off the heads. That, and pop-tarts.