Oak Tree

My first reaction is wow, that's quite a list. I suppose you can't hurt yourself by being prepared, but it can sometimes be useful to find the important stuff to focus on. 1. Bring 2 swim suits. One for lake and one for pool. Seems like a fine thing to put on the Scout's list of items - we don't have a pool, so I wouldn't know. An extra suit can't be bad, though. 2. At pickup, parents to checkout with leader for potential discussion regarding summer camp performance. I don't think I'd put this at checkout as a requirement. There are other times that could be better. Many parents want to talk, and that's great, but I usually try to make the whole return-from-camp time be a positive thing. 3. Bring: a. Ginger ale (stomach aches) nah b. Gatoraid powder (dehydration) never needed this, but ok c. Pedometers never used this, but could be interesting. nice to have d. Benadryl ointment & pills we do have anti-itch stuff e. Vitamin A&D ointment for nose membranes never used or needed this f. First Aid spray or this g. Knuckle band-aids always bring these h. Anti-biotic ointment should be in the first aid kit, which should be checked i. Large band-aids 3x2 ditto j. Large box of corn starch (chafing) we use Gold Bond, but didn't need to use it this year k. Chiggerex good luck. never found much that worked on chiggers other than numbing the area l. Ivy Dry never heard of it m. Tecnu (poison ivy soap) maybe a good idea, but the people who developed a poison ivy rash didn't know they were in poison ivy at the time and wouldn't have used the soap anyway 4. Hydrate well starting the day before leaving I personally don't bother with all the hydration messages. Everyone gets so sick of them and ignores them anyways. I find it hard to believe that our evolutionarily designed thirst mechanism is fundamentally flawed. Everyone should have a water bottle, though. 5. Topographic map of area nice to have 6. Medical forms in 2 weeks in advance for review. No ifs/ands/or buts. good luck with this too. We said this, but what if it doesn't happen? (and it didn't.) Some people can't schedule their physical until closer than this. 7. Talk directly to Dining Hall Director not Camp Director regarding special diets. Double checking all communication is a good thing, and the closer you can get to the actual person doing the work, the better. That said, I don't think we have a good way to get to the dining hall director ahead of time. 8. Have shake down hike before camp to ensure all boys & adults are physically capable to endure the terrain. Will you have a test that they have to meet? Complete it in under one hour? It sounds good, but are you really going to stop someone from coming to summer camp? 9. Have Scout leadership establish expectations and communicate to boys before hand. I think this is a big one and is on the top of my list. You might want to list out specific things that the expectations refer to. What were the biggest areas of problems with that this year? What are the SPL's duties? The patrol leaders? When is lights out? Can the boys make fires? How do we get everyone off to breakfast? Who deals with first aid issues, or homesickness? I would add to this item, make sure the adult leader in charge communicates the expectations of the other adult leaders as well. 11. Practice mosquito net frame assembly fortunately never had trouble with mosquitoes, so no one brings nets. But couldn't this be each person's individual responsibility? 12. Bring alphabetical list of Scouts Yes, sure. Several, even. 13. Dont over communicate (Mr Davis) I think you need to be more specific. (Which Mr. Davis are you talking about? :-) 14. Get pre-requisites into the hands of the Scouts sooner. Our Scouts can look at these themselves, but camp is so variable that I've decided not to bother - they can always complete the other requirements later. 15. Watermelon or ice cream for half way night? We did this - it's a great idea. 16. Break down check-in by patrol. Sounds good, although just checking in wasn't a big deal. 17. Roll fuel cost into Camp cost. Yep, we do this. Good idea. 18. Set up account with trading post for merit badge kits & roll cost of kits into camp. Our camp just rolls them in already. 19. Schedule camp in June to beat 100 weather. Best wishes. I'd add, identify the Scout or two who are most likely to miss getting to class, and make sure that someone is around to guide them in the right direction.(This message has been edited by Oak Tree)

So the BSA is boxing itself in? One claim is that if it changed its anti-gay position, it would lose a bunch of people/organizations immediately. Another claim is that by holding to its anti-gay position, the BSA is hurting membership, losing units, preventing new units from starting. So the longer it sticks to its anti-gay position, the more the organization becomes composed only of those who agree with that position, thereby making it harder to switch. A Gallup poll found that 70% of those 18-34 were in favor of gay marriage. The more the BSA restricts itself to that shrinking 30% of the population, the more it's going to hurt long-term membership. So that's it? Take a short-term hit from which you may or may not recover, or suffer through a slow but continuous decline? I'm thinking there has to be a way out. If the military can allow for gay members, somehow the Scouts can too.

In December 2007 the YMCA/YWCA sponsored 441 units. In December 2010 it's 401, for a decline of 9%. (Total units are down from 121,000 to 115,000, a decline of 5%.) It's impossible to tell if any of those YMCA units moved or if they just closed. I would think that some PTAs may go this route too. The National PTA specifically says that they will "Foster programs and practices that eliminate bias, prejudice and misunderstanding within their communities" and that they will "Propose change wherever discriminatory practices are perceived" and they specifically recognize sexual orientation as an aspect of diversity.

Yeah, so I'm not really disagreeing with what Beavah says here. shared vision for their program that their boys and parents can understand (and learn from). I do indeed talk about the progression through ranks as a coherent journey, especially when talking with parents and at courts of honor. The thing is, that's a vision. I can't objectively measure how the Scout is doing at completing a vision - I have to measure how he's doing against the actual written requirements. I can evaluate how the BSA is doing at crafting requirements that implement that vision (the requirements are easier than I'd like), but I can't (or at least, don't want to) try to evaluate whether the boy is a "complete Scout". I think that's when you get into a lot of the uglier situations where people complain that the Scoutmaster is artificially holding back their son. I realize that I do disagree with how Beavah would run a troop, and I like the traditional model. I think that an easier thing to do with a smaller troop, where the Scoutmaster can give individual attention to each Scout. With a much larger troop, the Scoutmaster has to communicate the actual bar to all of the ASMs and any Scouts who can sign off. To do this, I'd probably have to put it in writing. Then I'd get accused of "adding to the requirements" if I didn't word it really carefully. I'll take it under advisement, though. A stronger knowledge of the basic skills is something that some parents expect - I'm ambivalent about that.

Except for Quartermaster, when they get a good quartermaster they tend to try to keep him We had that happen to us with scribe. One Scout was really good at it, he liked the job, he wanted to keep the job, and no one else really wanted it. Four SPLs in a row appointed him to be scribe. I'm with you on the smiley-face.

http://www.thesunnews.com/2011/07/04/2258430/ymca-says-boy-scouts-must-leave.html I would prefer to be associated with an organization that was not so frequently in the news over its gay policy. From the wording in the article, I think they are saying that the YMCA is the chartered organization and the troop has one year to find a new CO, entirely due to the BSA policy of not accepting gay leaders. I think this type of decision can only become more common over time, as more local and national boards of non-religious organizations consider their relationship with BSA in light of their own non-discrimination policies.

We are in the "demonstrate-it-once-and-get-it-signed-off" camp. I like the model that Beavah describes, but it would take a lot of work to communicate the appropriate level of expectation. I think that if National wanted the requirements to be a bit more stringent (something I'd have no problem with) then they could write the requirements that way. Some of the merit badges do have requirements like that. Archery - get a score of 170. Lifesaving - recover a 10-pound weight. Shotgun - hit 12 of 25 twice. Hiking - take a 20-mile hike. All of those cases are pretty cut-and-dried - demonstrate the skill in a non-subjective fashion with a bar set for how well the skill is performed. It would be easy enough to have tests like that for the skills. Right now swimming is pretty much the only skill like that. But you could easily have a "BSA knot tying test", or "BSA fire building test", or whatever. They don't have those, though. So a boy who ties one bowline has "demonstrated tying a bowline". It's much easier to tell all adults and Scouts that the requirements are to be interpreted exactly as written. The skills that the boys need because they'll keep using them, those we'll keep practicing because we keep using them. Some people have in their heads ideas about what is meant by various ranks. Like a First Class scout being able to hike and camp on his own with his patrol and no adults around. or belief of some on this forum that First Class is truly the highest rank, or First Class is the point at which he is expected to be able to take care of himself on outings or events. For me, First Class means that he has completed the requirements for First Class. If he completes them in one month or in forty-two months, it doesn't really matter to me - I'll give him the rank when he completes the requirements. I do not think the requirements imply a level of being able to take care of himself entirely, nor much else. As written, I think the requirements merely imply some passing familiarity with a lot of things. Some boys come in and want to get a bunch of stuff signed off. More power to them. We usually have some time on camping trips where we can check off a few requirements. We do focus on some of the basic skills with the new Scouts, and they get a lot signed off there. But at some point the Scouts typically shift into a let's-have-fun mentality. They will stay at Second Class, or First Class, or Star, or Life, for a long time, often years, while they come to events, enjoy the activities, get to practice their skills, and not don't worry about advancement. Everyone has a different vision for the way the troop should run. Does this system work for us - yes. Do the Scouts earn Eagle at 13 or 14 and then leave? - No. By far the most common age of those earning Eagle is 17. Do the boys enjoy their time? - yes. Are we losing boys? - in general, no, we've grown to be one of the larger troops around, and we have a lot of 14, 15, and 16 year-old Scouts. The opportunity for rapid advancement isn't a big deal - a much bigger issue is how the program runs. Do you have lots of opportunity for fun? Do the boys get to hang out with their friends? Do they eventually accomplish things that they are proud of? Do they get to spend time with quality adult leaders? I'm not worried about whether they are earning rank "too fast". If they are learning things, having fun, growing and maturing, and sticking around, that's good enough for me.

The SPL runs the meeting where the new candidates for SPL give a quick speech. Scouts nominate themselves by talking to the SM in advance. The votes are given to the Scoutmaster who counts them. The SPL, with approval from the SM, appoints the ASPL. Then the patrols split up and choose their own patrol leaders. The SPL then appoints the rest of the positions. There are no defined criteria for any position.

This sounds pretty typical to me. If you give the guys plenty of opportunities to work on the requirements, then you can easily have boys earning first class in eight to ten months. We usually have our fastest Scout earn First Class in less than seven months, while our longest can take a couple years or even longer. The average is about 5 months for Tenderfoot, 5 more months for Second Class, and 5 more months for First Class.

I'm with Eamonn - zero tolerance does not always make sense because it often ends up either 1) outlawing things that it didn't really mean to outlaw or 2) having a punishment that can be far worse than the offense should actually have. Any actual hazing should be stopped. What gets hard is to define the precise line at which something becomes hazing. You can often jump in and nip something in the bud before it becomes actual hazing. This particular case is clearly over the line and should be stopped, but not being there, it can be hard to tell how bad it is or whether it would likely be a problem if the older boys were told to stop. We had a presentation at camp on bullying. They defined it as deliberately hurtful, repeated actions involving an imbalance of power. Our schools add the word 'unwelcome'.

You don't really need three people to sign the book. One (the BOR chair) should be enough. In our troop, like yours, we normally have three people all initial it, but I can't see how that's necessary or even useful in this case.

You're not going to find anything in writing, because it's up to the chartered organization how exactly to run the committee. Your COR should be able to give you their take on the rules. You can find some "official" descriptions of the roles, but they are more guidelines than anything. The committee chair does have the role of "interpreting national and local policies to the troop" - so if the CO has a policy on fund-raising, the CC should know about it. The process described in the troop committee guidebook is to have an annual plan and budget and include troop money-earning projects. The guidebook prefers money-raising projects over dues, and says that project selection should begin with the PLC and Scoutmaster, who will bring their ideas to the committee. The Troop Committee Guidebook does say that the Scoutmaster is not actually a member of the troop committee and has no vote. This implies that everyone who is actually on the committee does have a vote. There is nothing to indicate that a CC can veto a committee decision. Why would a CC think that they could? You could ask this, but again, it's really going to be up to the CO as to how they want the committee to run. We're a bunch of cooperating volunteers.

The Scouts deserve their rank and merit badges that they earned as soon as possible. bnelon44, yes, we agree. We give the Scouts their merit badges and rank badges the day that they earn them. The advancement form is just used to refill our troop stores of rank badges.

Policeman, fireman, baseball players are always training why are scout leaders any different? There are professionals and there are volunteers. There are those who are being paid for their time and those who are paying to participate. Do you think baseball players go back and take a course that reviews the rules of baseball - how many strikes, how many balls, how many outs? They would take advanced training appropriate for their level. Your attitude is right - you may as well enjoy it, but a lot of adult leaders are looking at their investment in Scouting and saying that they can spend their time working on X (coaching Scouts, working with new Scouts, counseling a merit badge, fixing troop equipment, etc) or they can sit in training. It's not like we have infinite time and adding required training is free - there's an opportunity cost.

I'm thinking the CC is not "right" on this. He may or may not have the authority - the COR could delegate to him - but there is no reason to bring something up for discussion at the committee, get their opinion, and then ignore it. Is he just trying to make people mad? The topic itself is of little note - I think it could easily go either way. More to the point is the way the CC is running the committee.

An advancement report must be sent to the council service center immediately following each board of review. This report must be signed by at least three members of the board of review, including its chairman. This is indeed a direct quote from the Advancement Report. However, it then goes on to allow for 32 lines of Scouts who are advancing. We generally turn in one of these per quarter, with a whole bunch of Scouts on it, who had all kinds of different people sitting on their boards review. Any three committee members typically sign it. From the description, you'd need a separate form for each set of three people who conducted boards of review. Actually, I think I usually sign it as Scoutmaster and have two committee members sign it too. I note the form does say the Advisor can sign in a crew. At any rate, no one in the council office cares who signs it. In our own troop, I'd just have the parent fill out an application and make it legal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/28/AR2007072801105.html "he rediscovered some of his Boy Scout memorabilia, including documents that showed he completed the Eagle Scout requirements. He contacted the Scouts about receiving his award." http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700035626/Eagle-Scout-rank-awarded-to-35-year-old-Herriman-man.html "between confusion over who was qualified to perform his board of review and then his family moving, nothing was ever finalized. Fortunately, he retained the original paperwork over the years." http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/news/military/20040807-9999-1n7scout.html Being told by an adult that you weren't eligible to get the award might qualify as a good reason. Can't hurt to try.

Ok, this is great. Next question - what do you use to re-seal the roof so that the trailer is waterproof? Ours lasted quite awhile, but is developing leaks in various places.

Basementdweller - thanks, I'll add that to my list of half-hour tasks :-) It does sound like something we should do - but if I were looking for a trailer, it would be nice if it came with it. The hardest part of your solution sounds like it would be running the wire from the solar panels to the battery.

From the Advancement Committee Guide Policies and Procedures (excerpts) Merit badge counselors must be recognized as having the skills and education in the subjects for which they are to serve. All merit badge counselors must be approved by the council advancement committee. They must be approved by the committee for each specific badge. Registration must be renewed annually. This is an excellent opportunity to not reregister those persons identified as not following the policies and procedures of the BSA. It looks pretty clear to me that the council advancement committee or their delegates can question or disapprove whenever they feel it is justified.

IANAL, but my understanding would be that camp staff cannot detain people against their wishes at all, but on the other hand, they could make it a condition of staying on the property. I'm trying to imagine what right the leaders might have (and since I am one, I do wonder about what my own legal status is in terms of giving actual orders to Scouts) - but I doubt there is any legal right to be present when someone else is talking to one of your Scouts. Is there a difference between a 'formal investigation' and some 'informal inquiries'? "Hey, do you know who did this?" I doubt that legally there's a difference. But I'm just speculating based on my own knowledge and experience - I'd like to know what the real answer is. I'll point out that most of us probably don't know our full rights even as parents of kids. Where exactly do my rights as a parent end and the rights of the state begin?

Yeah, I think a third parent is fine - the only difference would be whether they signed the form or not. If you want to be all official, have them sign up. If you agree that the "spirit of the law" is what matters, there's no problem. If you're a "letter of the law" kind of person, well, think about whether you'd really want to try to invalidate some kid's rank.

I'm going with cozy, although I do like that the CC puts out minutes that are more business-like. Especially if there are any issues, for communicating with those who pay only occasional attention, business-like is good.

I plan to have the boys use simulated dinosaurs. http://www.amazon.com/Dino-Blasters-Dinosaur-Shaped-Water-Raptor/dp/B004RQAQSO

If I could do something differently, I'd get a trailer with brakes, so that I could feel ok about loading it to the max. We've kept ours open (no organizational compartments), and it allows for a lot of flexibility for fitting different things in it for different trips. I agree with Eagledad that it's nice to have a trailer that can be towed by any vehicle with a trailer hitch. One other innovation I'd like to see would be a roof that had a slight slant so that water didn't sit on top when it rained. The water works pretty hard to find any way into the roof and will water damage interior wood. I'd also, as a small thing, want a light that worked inside without necessarily needing to be connected to the car *and* have the car lights on. Again, on the water damage front, I'd look for less wood and more waterproof materials in the trailer construction (e.g., the back doors are wood on the inside, and it gets wet when you have to pack in the rain.) I do think that creating an "all-backpack" troop is a viable option, but having a trailer does provide options - trunks to summer camp, bikes for a bike trip, flagpoles, axes, dutch ovens, etc.