Oak Tree

Thanks for sharing, trainerlady. Good lessons all around.

I have a few thoughts on how to encourage someone to step down gracefully. One - define some other type of role that you need them for. Make it something that genuinely plays to their strength. Two - talk to them openly and honestly. Ask them what they hope to get out of their position. Do they want to see {boys going camping, boys earning rank, new trained adults, whatever it is that their position in particular is responsible for.} Then ask them if they think that they are being effective at getting that result. What could make someone more effective in that position? Would they be willing to make those changes? Do they think someone new might bring in other perspectives? Three - if there is a nice milestone coming up, you might see if it would make for a good celebration (20 years with the troop). Regardless, you could suggest to the person that it's good to go out on top. Have them be the featured guest at a troop banquet. Four - You could ask the person about succession plans. This would work best if you're doing it for multiple adult positions and not just theirs. What kind of person would we look for to backfill them? Who might be good candidates? What would they see themselves doing if they moved on to another position? Just some brainstorming ideas.

It's possible that the Jambo SM for your troop decided to hand out blue cards even if the Jamboree as a whole did not. I'd love to offer an informed opinion, but no Scout in our entire Jamboree troop did any work on any merit badge. A Jamboree troop has no committee - it should not be possible to do any advancement. In general, how I would handle this, by the book, would be to get a blanket approval from the home Scoutmaster. I kind of figure that if I approve a Scout to attend Jamboree, I'm implicitly approving him to work on any merit badges while he's there. Really, I've never turned down a request from a Scout to work on a merit badge. The only time I can even imagine this coming into play would be if a Scout had started working on a badge with some counselor, and finding that counselor to be a stickler for details, the Scout wanted to shop around to find an easier counselor. In that case I might tell him that he couldn't finish the badge with a different counselor at summer camp. Fred, when it says, "This is acceptable", it means that it is acceptable for the Scout to request a merit badge counselor. The Scoutmaster doesn't have to honor the request, but it's ok if he does.

We've had a couple of fights over the years - didn't call the cops in either case. I doubt I'd do it for personal marijuana use. I'm with Twocub - I figure I'll know it when I see it. Assault with a weapon would probably do it.

Here's something that just demonstrates the central bizarre organizational inefficiency that plagues the BSA. First off, they don't have a list of all of the councils easily accessible from anywhere that we can easily find. Second, the list of council websites includes 304 councils. How can it possibly not include all of the councils? Do some councils not have web sites? Have they ignored requests from National? Doesn't someone from National ever talk to people in those councils?

It's hard to say exactly when the line is crossed - but clearly everyone involved here agrees that the line was crossed. At what point would I have sent him home? That's hard to say. It depends on how well I knew the boy and how much I felt like I could talk to him. I think that event #1 would have been a big issue for me. Event #2 would also have been a big issue, but it can be hard to figure out exactly what's going on. Both of these two events are examples of why I hate cabin camping - we would normally have an adult sleeping in an adjoining room or something to try to keep the nighttime mischief down. Event #3 sounds like typical stupid teenage boy behavior that we deal with. The water and lemonade of events 4 and 5 are annoying but on their own would not be sufficient - it would have to be coupled with warnings from the adults and repeated behaviors outside the stricter guidelines that were handed down. Popping the Scout on the chin would be a bigger deal. What to do with him while waiting for mom... It depends on what your facilities look like. I don't think I'd confine him to the cabin unless I was prepared for the cabin to get wrecked. More likely we'd assign him to one of the adults and say that he had to stick with them at all times. If I had a "bad cop" adult in the troop, that would be the one. It sounds like it's being handled reasonably well - they called the parents, had them come get the boy, and are meeting to assess the situation and decide what should be done. If you've provided your input, that's about all you can do for the moment. You want to make sure that they understand they need to take the situation seriously, but it sounds like they are. If I were you, I'd also tell my son that no matter what happens, he doesn't have to go camping with 17 again if he doesn't want to.

The official "rule", if you want to call it that, is that the Scoutmaster gets to decide who can sign off on requirements. In many troops this does not include parents, but that is a decision of the Scoutmaster. If you want to head off situations like this, it would be good for the Scoutmaster to make it clear who is authorized to sign off what. But there is no blanket prohibition on brothers or parents or committee members or anyone else. I'd just accept these, move on, and let it go. Who really cares? They've left the unit.

I agree with Fred on how I would handle this in a real life situation. I disagree, though, that the Jamboree Scoutmaster is equivalent to the actual unit leader. I also disagree with those who say that a provisional SM is fine, or that a Philmont trek leader is fine (in the sense of being automatically approved.) Again, I'm going to handle this in a reasonable way with any Scout, but the rules are pretty clearly laid out if you're going to go by the letter of the law.Though a few merit badges may have certain restrictions; short of them, any registered Scout may work on any of them at any time, as long as he has the approval of his unit leader.[emphasis mine] This is indicated by his or her signature on the Application for Merit Badge, No. 34124, commonly called the blue card. Although it is the Scoutmasters responsibility, for example, to see that a counselor is identified from those approved and made available, the Scout may have one in mind with whom he would like to work. He may also want to take advantage of opportunities at merit badge fairs or midways, or at rock-climbing gyms or whitewater rafting trips that provide merit badge instruction. This is acceptable, but the unit leader should still consider the recommendation and approve it if it is appropriate.In the Advancement in Camp Settings section, it says that camps should have procedures in place includingCommunication plans to build awareness of camp practices, such as those related to scheduling, prerequisites, Scoutmaster approvals, paperwork, etc There is no indication anywhere that this responsibility automatically transfers to anyone other than the unit leader. Note that the term "unit leader" is a precisely-defined term in Scouting: "unit leader The adult leader of a unit is a Cubmaster, Scoutmaster, Coach, Advisor, or Skipper."

I think the National Outdoor Award Riding Segment would qualify. To get the segment, you need 200 miles beyond the Cycling merit badge. To get a gold device, you need 100 more miles. To get a silver device, you need 400 more miles (and can earn additional silvers). http://scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/Youth/Awards/NOA.aspx

Every troop leader I've ever talked with has described their troop as "boy-led". The phrase obviously means a lot of different things to different people. So, for our troop: MONEY QUESTION - Do your scouts create a budget for each camp out? No. QUESTION - Do your scouts manage a budget? ... beyond knowing how much they can spend on food per person or managing. No. QUESTION - Do your scouts research and cost out buildings and other price points? No. Well, not generally. We do have a youth leader for each trip and an adult leader, and they work together to figure out the details. It generally is more done by the adult. Also, we often discuss some general expense guidelines at PLC - do we prefer option A or option B given that A is more expensive? QUESTION - Do your scouts produce financial summaries for camp outs? No. QUESTION - Does your adult troop treasurer NOT produce financial reports for events? And if not, should they be doing it? Normally the adult trip leader has a good summary of expenses. The treasurer can produce them on request. In general I'm not too worried about this aspect of "boy-led". In our troop the parents pretty much just write the checks and the Scouts do not therefore have a good foundation to make the decisions. ATTENDANCE QUESTION - Do your patrol leaders manage event sign up sheets? No. Not long term, anyway. Sometimes there are patrol sign-up sheets that get handed to the patrol leader at the beginning of a meeting and that he turns in at the end. QUESTION - Do your patrol leaders record attendance info? No. QUESTION - Does your adult troop advancement chair NOT track attendance in troopmaster or similar? No. Although I hate questions phrased in the negative. We do use TroopMaster and it is an adult who does so. QUESTION - Does your an adult leader in your troop NOT track who's signed up for camp, arrived and is ready to leave for camp and who is brought home? No. Again, with the negative. We do have an adult who tracks who is signed up. We do ask the patrol leaders to tell us who is there from their patrol. We don't really track who is brought home. CALENDAR, RESERVATIONS and ACTIVITIES QUESTION - Does your troop committee NOT approve dates and locations chosen by the PLC? No, not really. The committee pretty much leaves that up to the Scoutmaster, although the committee does get briefed. QUESTION - Do your scouts make facility reservations? It has happened, but it's usually the adult trip leader who does it. QUESTION - Does your troop committee (or at least the scoutmaster) NOT review and approve the major activities the scouts plan to do? Yes, sure, the Scoutmaster does. I'll say these seem like pretty rhetorical questions, Fred. I suspect you know that most troops operate the way you describe - especially the larger ones. Are you trying to generate a ground-swell of opinion?

http://www.maineseakayakguides.com/ - This site says Air Temp + Water Temp < 110 = stay out of the water. http://www.canoeingthenew.com/safety.html - This one says If the combined water plus air temperature is less than 120, wet or dry suits are recommended. If the combined temperatures are below 100 degrees, wet or dry suits should be required. Here at New River Campground Canoeing and Kayaking we believe in following this rule, and will require you to have a wet or dry suit if you wish to go on the river when the combined temps are below 100 degrees.And this one www.boatingsidekicks.com/smartstart.htm says If the air and water temperature don't add up to at least 120 degrees F, you may want a wetsuit

There probably are some good "psycho-history" rules or equations that govern some of these things, but they would have to take into account a tremendous number of variables, from the demographics that Beavah mentions, to geography, to form of government, to other countries in the neighborhood, to natural resources, and so on. The British have pretty much the same monarchy going for the last 1400 years or something, albeit with lots of evolution along the way (and a very brief republic). The U.S. is unique in that it has the oldest functioning written constitution - but it also has the advantage that it is a democracy and therefore allows people to change their government regularly. With that ability to blow off pressure, it's not clear that the same life cycle that applies to empires would apply to democratic governments. We are not overdue.

My answer would be that technically it is only ok when the Scoutmaster says it is ok. It is the Scoutmaster's responsibility to sign the card or to designate someone to sign on his behalf. I would expect it to be pro forma, but it would be good for whoever the leader is, at Jambo or at Philmont or at summer camp, to check with the Scoutmaster on any expectations.

Kudu - yeah, I know :-) I don't think, though, that's the reason that parents aren't signing up their kids for Tigers. I would think that for a drop off of this magnitude, it's not coming from attrition within the program, it's coming from a lack of people signing up in the first place. Has sports become all that more competitive for boys' time in the first and second grades? I don't have hard data, but I kind of doubt it. If I had to guess, I'd think one factor might be that schools no longer charter packs. So before, it was a natural thing for everyone in the school to do, but not any more. That's a result of the Dale decision, but a bit more indirect. I also suspect that some schools have made it harder to publicize non-school groups - so it may be that Cub Scouts just doesn't get put in front of people as a choice. There are undoubtedly lots of people out there who view Scouts as anti-gay and won't sign up their kids, but it's not clear how many of them would have joined Cub Scouts in the first place. Still, this effect is going to continue to grow worse as the younger generation continues to have a greater and greater acceptance of gay marriage. I do realize that the opposite problem would exist if BSA was to reverse its policy - but I don't know how bad that would be either. With the military now accepting gays, it seems like the only other organizations supporting BSA's policy are religious groups. I suppose BSA can become an exclusively religious group, akin to the Royal Rangers. That's going to be a bit more of a membership decline before we get there, though.

So Cub Scout membership is down again. That makes what, 13 years in a row? From a peak of 2.17 million in 1998 down to 1.58 million in 2011. That's a 27% decline during a period where total available youth increased by 10% or so. I suppose it could be a coincidence that 1998 was the same year as the Dale decision. There are lots of factors going into the decline. Still, I heard an interview with Jim Daly, president of Focus on the Family, where he acknowledges that today's young parents are much more likely to approve of gay marriage. He seemed to pretty much accept that it was a given that gay marriage is going to get approved eventually. But it could be that today's young parents have lots of other reasons for not having their kids join Scouting. One wonders if the BSA might be considering merging with American Heritage Girls. They have AHG at Philmont and have done some other things indicating a very close working relationship. That would probably provide a pretty good boost to membership.

The usual answer is, "well, that's different". No, no it isn't. Do baseball teams wear their uniforms at every practice session? Do marching bands? Does the baseball coach wear the uniform? The band director? There are many differences in these organizations. They can't earn knots or ranks to put on their uniform. No merit badge sashes. It's really *not* the same thing.

"So they dont fit into any of those catagories what are the thoughts on this situation with that info. " I wouldn't worry about it. Just a curiosity, one of those interesting things you run into. I'd treat the application like any other. I would tell the mothers that they are not allowed at the BOR. If they insisted, I would tell them that they can observe only - that they are not allowed to talk at all.

Generally speaking, after a Scoutmaster conference the SM and/or the Scout will contact the BoR chair and request a board. We generally offer them two or three weeks a month, during the regular Scout meeting. Sometimes they can happen the same night. We've always had three committee members do it, although we are now open to other parents too. There's a set of people who view it as part of their committee responsibility. We have a one-sheet handout we give them to help "train" them, and usually we have them participate with some more seasoned board members. It doesn't take long to get the hang of it. We have done reviews at summer camp when we had enough committee members there. In general, I think I'd be fine with offering them once a month, but in our case it's easier to do them more frequently.

Someone at the Chartered Organization must not want you at the meetings. Who told you that you are not allowed to attend? A parent recommendation is one of the requirements for Eagle. How was that handled? To answer the questions you've asked: "Does every boy deserve an Eagle?" No. "Did he deserve an eagle when he was breaking several points of the scout law while getting it?" Really hard to say. Clearly no one is perfect. Does a person deserve to graduate from seminary if he is still a sinner? "should scout leaders assist the child in obtaining the eagle without his parents' knowledge, or should they insist that the boy at least inform his parents of what he is doing?" Scout leaders often help Scouts achieve ranks without any direct involvement from the parents. Normally, though, you need a parent recommendation for Eagle. I would need to talk to the Scout to hear his side of why he wanted to do this before I could render an opinion on the specifics. "but there is also a question of their legal right to assist someone else's child in an eagle project without his parent's knowledge and consent. It might have involved the use of potentially dangerous equipment; if harm had come to him or someone helping him on the project, we would have been liable. " No, BSA insurance covers you. Plus, you signed him up for Scouting. You did sign him up, right? And didn't have him removed from the program? I don't think there's any question about their legal right. The Eagle project is no different from general participation in the program. "It would be nice to have been asked to help him make a scrapbook to bring with him." I have never seen a Scout bring a scrapbook to an Eagle BoR. "who would be qualified to answer my question if not other scouters?" Scouters can answer questions about the Eagle process. Specific questions about your son would be better for people who know both of you. Questions about how to best proceed in life can be answered by professionals, therapists, doctors, psychologists, lawyers, social workers, etc, in consultation with you. "Would there have been questions about his home life or how he gets along with his parents and siblings?" No, likely not. "If they knew he was on probation until his 18th birthday would that have had an impact on their decision?" Yes, likely that would have been a topic of interest and they would have discussed it with him if they knew about it. "Do the scout oath and law really mean anything anymore? Do we expect scouts, and especially eagle scouts, to really try to live by them, or is it just something you memorize and repeat at scout meetings?" Yes, they mean something. Do we expect perfect compliance? No. "What details do you need?" Well, it's not clear that you can even provide the details that would help make such a decision. A history of your interactions with your son and the Scout leaders. Your general tone and attitude. Body language. Communication style. Your son's side of the story. All of which I don't expect you to provide here. That's why everyone here keeps telling you to go talk to a professional. Do some bad kids get Eagle? Yes. The process is not perfect. Can we tell if it was a miscarriage of justice for your son to get Eagle? No, we can't tell. Your interactions here on the forum make you come across as argumentative and controlling. Can we imagine that your son might have grown to hate such an environment? Well, I can. But I don't know. Maybe you really are a great mom and your son just had other issues. ScoutNut answered your questions. I answered your questions as best I could. What more do you want here? Now, I know you didn't ask for opinions or for recommendations for family therapy, but since everyone here seems to be giving you the same response, might it make any sense to consider what people are saying?

Why do you ask the question? (I'm genuinely curious.) Are you trying to convince us that your son doesn't deserve Eagle? Would your life be improved if some other Scoutmasters said that they do not think your son should get Eagle? Is there some answer here that would make you happy?

Yeah, that sounds rough. I have no idea how long it would take, but I wouldn't expect it to be quick. And I would doubt very much that they are going to overturn the decision, barring some really clear and convincing evidence. Why would the CSE render a different decision from the regional review committee? I'd think it would be very rare, without knowing any details of your case or any other. As for the charter organization, it seems like you ought to talk to someone there directly. There are lots of people who aren't registered Scouters who can come into the meeting - I'm not sure why you would need to be one to be allowed on the property.

The punctuation doesn't bother me much. The whole report is a pretty quick overview of what BSA does - I think that as a synopsis, that's what you'd be looking for. Just like with all corporate annual reports, there are some basic facts (membership) and lots about the corporate mission. A more interesting analysis would consider a lot more, and would give more context for the membership numbers. Are these up from a year ago?

The primary reason for the pants is to look better. A Scout in full uniform looks sharper, and a troop all in full uniform does too. This reason appears to be insufficient to influence most of the boys, though, and I've generally given up on the argument.

All Scouts break various points of the Scout Law along the way. I doubt anyone has ever been denied Eagle because he just was never friendly. The question seems to be whether the violations are serious enough to jeopardize the "Scout Spirit" requirement, and that is something that's really hard to judge from afar. The only point of the Scout Law that seems to be listed as being broken is "obedient", but there is a time and a place for everything. Whether this was the time and place to run away from home, it's really hard to say. It's the very odd runaway who leaves home in order to secretly earn Eagle, though. I'm with the others - there certainly has to be a lot of background to the story, but just based on the OP, there's not enough here to grant a summary judgment against the Scout.

1. Do the following: (a) Explain to your counselor the hazards you are most likely to encounter while welding, and what you should do to anticipate, help prevent, mitigate, or lessen these hazards. (b) Show that you know first aid for, and the prevention of, injuries or illnesses that could occur while welding, including electrical shock, eye injuries, burns, fume inhalation, dizziness, skin irritation, and exposure to hazardous chemicals, including filler metals and welding gases. 2. Do the following: (a) With your counselor, discuss general safety precautions and Material Safety Data Sheets related to welding. Explain the importance of the MSDS. (b) Describe the appropriate safety gear and clothing that must be worn when welding. Then, present yourself properly dressed for weldingin protective equipment, clothing, and footwear. © Explain and demonstrate the proper care and storage of welding equipment, tools, and protective clothing and footwear. 3. Explain the terms welding, electrode, slag, and oxidation. Describe the welding process, how heat is generated, what kind of filler metal is added (if any), and what protects the molten metal from the atmosphere. 4. Name the different mechanical and thermal cutting methods. Choose one method and describe how to use the process. Discuss one advantage and one limitation of this process. 5. Do the following: (a) Select two welding processes, and make a list of the different components of the equipment required for each process. Discuss one advantage and one limitation for each process. (b) Choose one welding process. Set up the process you have chosen, including gas regulators, work clamps, cables, filler materials, and equipment settings. Have your counselor inspect and approve the area for the welding process you have chosen.221 6. After successfully completing requirements 1 through 5, use the equipment you prepared for the welding process in 5b to do the following: (a) Using a metal scribe or soapstone, sketch your initial onto a metal plate, and weld a bead on the plate following the pattern of your initial. (b) Cover a small plate (approximately 3 x 3 x ) with weld beads side by side. © Tack two plates together in a square groove butt joint. (d) Weld the two plates together from 6c on both sides. (e) Tack two plates together in a T joint, have your counselor inspect it, then weld a T joint with fillet weld on both sides. (f) Tack two plates together in a lap joint, have your counselor inspect it, then weld a lap joint with fillet weld on both sides. 7. Do the following: (a) Find out about three career opportunities in the welding industry. Pick one and find out the education, training, and experience required for this profession. Discuss this with your counselor, and explain why the profession might interest you. (b) Discuss the role of the American Welding Society in the welding profession