NWScouter

Bob. I believe it was a misunderstanding of the Webelos den option by extending it to the whole Pack.

Just another short history lesson. One of the myths that most presidents are elected to two terms. Only fifteen out of the forty-three Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, Lincoln, Grant, Cleveland, McKinley, Wilson, F. Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, and Clinton. Another political truth, the vice presidency is a way to get elected president, only five have been elected president without having filled out term due the death of the president, J. Adams, Jefferson, Van Buren, Nixon, and G. H. W. Bush. Out of the eight vice presidents to become presidents on the death of their presidents only four were elected to another term, T. Roosevelt, Coolidge, Truman and L.B. Johnson. One of the two unelected vice presidents became president, Ford. Now to go to the original topic. George H. W. Bush had very high poll numbers at the end of the first Gulf War, but lost two years later to Clinton. G.W. Bush looks like he will have a war dragging on to the elections. How that plays out will be interesting. Will the patriotic feelings keep him in the White House or will the inability to stop the deaths of U.S. soldiers in Iraq doom his chances as did Carters inability to solve the hostage crisis in Iran. Im life long democrat, even was an area coordinator for McGovern in 72, but I haven picked someone yet. Leaning to Kerry, Deans ideas sound good but not sure about his commitment to them, want to find out more about Clark.

Gresham is a suburb just east of Portland, Oregon.

I'm going to back Bob White. I have never heard that Cub Scouts could wear the tan Boy Scout uniform. Tigers wear the orange T-shirt, Cub Scouts the blue uniform, Webelos can wear the blue Cub or the Boy Scout tan. Boy Scouts wear the tan Boy Scouts as do Varsity Team Members. Venturers wear the green Venturing uniform or their Crew designed uniform. Cub, Boy Scout and Team leaders wear the Boy Scout tan, female Cub leaders may wear yellow shirt. Venturing leaders wear the green or their Crew designed uniform. Now back in my sons day in Webelos, the den had to be all blue or all tan, that changed to personal option quite a while ago. Also I think the change in location of the AOL from on the left pocket to below the left pocket is due to the great difference in sizes that Boy Scouts come in. Some of the smaller Scouts did have enough room on the pocket for a rank badge and the AOL badge. (This message has been edited by NWScouter)

My council would not acept an "annual tour permit". It is ment to used for each outing. Now there may be debate when you need tofile one and the definition in council has changed a bit. But for each time it is required a unit must submit it signed correctly by the leaders of that outing. Are there any other councils out there that accept annual tour permits?

Bob, The reasons you have policy and bylaw is spell out beforehand process before they can become matter of personalities. The matter of fair play comes into play. If for example training classes for leaders are paid for out of troop funds, and it has only been paying for basic courses. Now a leader comes and applies for wood badge to be paid because the Troop pays for training. I have seen that happen where it has caused resentment and hurt feelings. A simple statement of policy established long before the fact would have prevented it. What is paid for out troop funds, does the Scoutmaster get to purchase that piece of equipment or pay for that state park fee come out of money collected for a outing or the general troop account. Who approves the purchase? What paperwork is required? All a matter of fairness. What happens to a boys scout account when he moves on to a new troop? We had a topic a while back were a family left a troop because of a disagreement to another troop. They had seen other boys transfer their accounts to new troop. Now they werent allowed because they were not moving out of town per a ruling of the Scoutmaster. Never written down, never explained, now a matter of personalities, hurt feelings and perceived vindictiveness. The PLC changes the time of the elections or the frequency, may be thought of as a power play by a clique of scouts. Sets established time and method thought out and developed by the PLC and held to, brings the element of fairness and appearance of equal access to all scouts. Rules that cover areas not covered by BSA guidelines or to expand on them to fit the local unit bring stability and harmony.

When I was in my first troop(1963) I was given a metal Tenderfoot and Second Class Awards, no cloth badge. I believe that was the main reason that the rule about cloth and metal badges came. I still believe you can get a metal badge still but the ease of using only the cloth makes the metal use rare.

The history major in me is going crazy. I know it is off topic but I have to do it. The Second World War started with Germans invading Poland September 1, 1939. The British and the French then declared war on Germany . The Soviet Union invaded the eastern half of Poland and then the Baltic States. The USSR then tried to invade Finland and was fought to a stand still. In the spring of 1940 Germany invaded Denmark and Norway. Then they invaded The Netherlands and Belgium on the way to France. Italy decided to declare war on France and Britain just as France was falling. Italy invaded Yugoslavia, Greece and Egypt where it couldnt hack it and had to be bailed out by the Germans. The British in Egypt were reinforced by the Australian and New Zealanders. In June of 1940 the Germans along with the Italians Finns, the Hungarians, Bulgarians and Romanians invaded the Soviet Union. Meanwhile for years the Japanese had been fighting the Chinese. On December 7, 1941 the Japanese struck Pearl Harbor, Hawaii. Sinking most of the United States Pacific Naval Fleet. They then invaded Hong Kong, Malay States, Singapore, Dutch East Indies (Indonesia), Philippines, Burma and almost clear south to New Guinea next to Australia and west to Indian. The United States declared war on Japan on December 8 and the 10th Germany and Italy declared war on the U.S. That is a very short summary of the first three years.

By-laws or written policy statements by units can be very important, especially when they concern matters not covered by BSA policy. Such the proceeds of fund-raisers, do you have scout accounts, how are the profits divided. The process of discipline, who determines the amount, where and how to appeal. The way funds are spent from the unit treasury, How a boy may move between patrols, when are the elections. I found rather than a formal by-laws a unit handbook with these unit specific rules plus short summeries of BSA rules gets everyone on the same page. Now before anyone get too excited in a Troop some of the unit specific rules are decided by the Patrol Leaders Council and some by the committee.

When I was a Scoutmaster a few years back I used the alternative leadership project quite a few times. All the situations were the same. Our troop was in the mid thirties size and we had young scouts earning their first class in May, after about a year in the troop. There just werent enough leadership positions and by the end of summer camp some of the scouts would have all the merit badges for Star. Our next court of honor was in late September or October after their four month time in rank. I had theses scouts volunteer to be Den Chiefs at day camps in the area. My thought would be that during those four months they would be doing more hands on leadership than some of POR would be doing. I was talking to one of my friends who is Day Camp director now and said that she might use this idea to see if they might interest troops to use it for she was really short on Den Chiefs. She said National Standards now say if a Den Chief is not a Day Camp where his parent is working he must be 14. Many of my scouts used the Day Camp Den Chief on their application to be S.I.T. at camp at age 14. Now the day camps have to compete with Scout Camp Staff for the best younger staff. I never though would use it with scouts going for Life and Eagle.

Just a note. Someone mentioned an Advancement Chair patch, there is none, they would wear a Commitee Member patch, It comes in Pack, Troop, Team, Crew, District and Council versions.

Cub leaders should wear to all scouting activities, roundtables, training, etc. A committee member may take Cub Leader Specific break out for Committee and also need to take New Leader Essential. Also, if you change or take on a new position in scouting, you must take the training for that position to wear the train patch.

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Eamonn, We have in a lodge a few women members that wear the Venturing uniform with the lodge flap. Most are associated with the Crew chartered to the council camping committee. Most are former or present camp staffers. They were elected to the Order after they reached twenty-one by lodge or council nomination. A few of them are Vigil now. Also we have young ladies (under 21) at all of our fellowship and at section conclave. Again camp staffers mostly. If not for our older female OA member our button blankets would never get finished. Our dinning hall looks like a sewing room while the candidates are out working, but again we have women that would rather be working on the trains and other camp service. I have another question about uniforming for Venturing. If the Crew picks an uniform not the official one can they wear official patches and awards on them. Another thing is that I believe I heard that Ventures are not to use the Boy Scout khaki.

Born and raised a Lutheran of Norwegian immigrant parents. Had quite a reputation of bringing strange fishy stuff on the troop hikes when I was Scoutmaster. Setting down to pickled herring and rye krisp tended to drive the Scout bonkers. One hike I had managed to get a hold of a one pound chocolate salmon. I went on and on the hold five miles how I was going to have this great fish when I got to the campsite and they should try some. Only two said they would.. When I pulled out the salmon I was almost strung up with rain fly guy lines. Out here there is nothing better alder barbecued salmon, King or Red are the best. Oh, another thing about my family, all my mothers brothers were commercial fisherman and we got free salmon all the time as I grew up. I even worked one summer in a cannery and fished another summer, both in Bristol Bay, Alaska. Also we had White Castle out here for a few years in 80s, didnt catch on and they went away. The best nostalgic hamburgers here are made by our last local true fiftys chain, Dicks. A Dicks special, fries and shake bring back memories. Im glad I live far enough away to the drive-ins or I would have my doctor breathing down my neck. (This message has been edited by NWScouter)

I worn it when I was a Webelos den leader. Our present lodge advisor was Cubmaster when he was a chapter advisor as right now one of the chapter advisor is a cubmaster. All wear and wore their flaps. The worse part of the present cubmaster above, is he worked on camp staff with my son and is a year younger. I feel so old. The benifit of wearing it and your Arrow of Light, Eagle, and Religious award knots are the chances you get to tell the Cubs about the fun you have and had in Boy Scouting. A great way to get them pumped up.

To many it a very offensive term and brings back memories that they would like to leave behind. Many people now in the US lost all their relatives due to their murderous reign in Europe. My mother and brother lived under their occupation in Norway. They were lucky they were not part of the groups that Hitler decided to exterminate. I echo NJCubScouter request.

You said one was in counseling and I would like to believe the other is also getting professional help. I would talk with the parents and see if there is anyway that some of these problems could be discussed with the professionals treating the boys. The goal is to develop plans to deal with the behaviors and to suggest strategies to change those behavior in the troop setting. I imagine that the young men are having problems with these behaviors elsewhere also and they have plans in effect to handle them.

The one you turn in at recharter is reflective of the year just complete. You can apply anytime this year if you meet the requirements last year and didnt apply at recharter. You will apply for this year at upcoming recharter time using activities and metrics of this year. For example if you had a trained Cubmaster for part of the year and your new Cubmaster has not had a chance to get to training by recharter time , you still get to check it off because you had a trained Cubmaster that year. The number of meetings, growth of membership, advancement and all the requirements are based on the charter year. If you did it between the day charter started and the day it ends you a qualified for Quality unit. Think about it like the tax year, if your son isnt born by December 31 you cant take the deduction on that years taxes.

I just look up my in my dictionary where it defined it as 'belonging to'. So I looked up belong, it was defined a few ways, one is owned by and another is being a member of. Most people understand when a person says my troop what is meant by its context, which is being a member. We all know people that belong to groups, be it Scout Troop, congregation, social club, etc., that feel that the do own the group they belong to. They show it by their unbending attitudes and refusal to admit that someone that disagrees with them, may have a point and there might be merit in their ideas.

I have been a counselor for over 100 youth in Cubs, Boy Scouts , Brownies, Girl Scouts and Campfire in the God and Country programs. It is not inappropriate for a Scout Leader to counsel for the award in his own faith. I would not counsel but encourage them to go for one their faith. I advised a young Girls Scout that wanted to be with her friend (a Sunday School student of mine) in a God and Family class that we held, to check out at her parish for the Live My Faith (Roman Catholic) award. I have counseled those of different denominations than mine (and different congregations of mine own), that use the PRAYs God and Country program, but only after their pastors approval and agreement to support, review and sign the application. My pastor has agreed to work with those who are not active in a congregation and we will present it at our church with or with out the Lutheran bar on it. Those interested in running a religious award program should look up the various denominationally based scouting groups. Most have aids to help assist leaders.

There are lots of medals and awards out there that youth can earn. The BSA has set standards on what should be worn on the official uniform. Even some BSA awards, mile swim, BSA lifeguard, Snorkeling, and Fifty Miler name a few that are not to be worn on the uniform. Two reasons that the BSA limits them; one, to keep the uniform from being overly cluttered and 2, wanting to approve those that are unique and fitting to the scouting movement.

Moms on outing!! What a thought! When I was a scoutmaster we had females as Assistant Scoutmasters. I remember one hike that would not have happened without a mom because she was the only other adult able to go. She is a little thing and showed me up so bad. It may have something to do with the fact she was in great shape, a former member of the Joffrey and founding member the Pacific Northwest Ballet. She just bounced up the trail, a 5 miler with a 1500+ elevation gain. Another mom ran a fifty miler the year our troop had two. She was before she was married a member of Alaska State Police - Game Wardens division. I find that scouts may have more difficulty with siblings coming along. Scouting can be their thing and they have enough of older sis and little bro at home.

As former District Advancement Chair, I was ultimately responsible for the Merit Badge List. A person can be registered as Merit Badge Counselor only, it is a district position but there is no fee associated with it. If the counselor is not also a registered in a unit or district /council position (paid a fee), he is only allowed to do merit badges. The big problem to merit badge list keeper is there is no easy way to keep it up. A unit at recharter will drop some one when they dont pay the fee. With no real contact with them by the district and it is a big task to contact 4-500 people, they only get updated when someone takes the time to inform the district. When I took over I found people that were dead , moved away and out of scouting. I also found people listed as Robert, Rob, Bob, Bobby, B.W. etc and each at different addresses but the same last name. Next time you get upset at the Merit Badge List in your district, volunteer to be the keeper.

They are for non-uniform use. Only BSA issued and authorized awards are to be worn on the uniform. The only non-BSA awards that I know of that are allowed are the religious awards. Now having said that I have seen many Scouts (including in my old troop) wear them and no one will make them take them off. I would not wear them to an Eagle Board of Review, just to be safe.