Novice_Cubmaster

Gern, One of my favorite flicks. Unlike so many things I laughed at in my youth, Monty Python is still funny. And thank goodness we have a constitutional right to show & see things like Life of Brian. NC

Ed, It is a common Jewish tradition (and may be in other religions as well) NOT to put the word "G" "O" "D" on a mundane document, or a document that might be handled or disposed of in an irreverent manner. It's the written equivalent of not taking the Lord's name in vain. NC

Have you ever noticed that no Jewish groups go around making a fuss about keeping the 10 commandments on display at public buildings? Since we had them first, you'd think we'd be fighting tooth and nail to keep them up. My guess is, after centuries of having someone else's religion shoved in our faces, we're unwilling to do the same to others. (Yep, the "Golden Rule" was ours first, too). NC

Hi all, I would like to thank John-in-KC for his points 1 through 3, which put the whole issue nicely into perspective. Here in the US, we do have the ability to freely and safely practice our various faiths. While some of us may debate the "freely" part - in comparison to Red China, parts of Africa & many other places, "freely" is an accurate description. As for the "War on Christmas", I am forced to alter my position and acknowledge that such a war does exist. There are extremists who would homogenize the holidays into a secular "end of year" celebration - ridiculously manifested by such petty nonsense as removing poinsettas and banning red & green decor. But certainly manifested in other, more serious ways as well. But extremism breeds extremism. There are plenty of people who completely disregard the fact that there are holidays other than Christmas occurring at this time of year. How much of the "War on Christmas" is a reaction to those who won't yield on the preferential, semi-exclusive status of Christmas? For example BrentAllen's rhetorical question, "Why should the airlines say "Merry Christmas" on December 25th? ... do I need to explain further?" It pretty much disregards the fact that some airline employees and passengers might celebrate something other than Christmas. My wish for this holiday season is that our nation finds a way for all our traditions to be expressed and respected. The alternative may very well be that the liberals & ACLU win, and America ends up celebrating "Happy Plain Vanilla Meaningless End of Year Time" Best wishes to all. NC

Hi all, Id like to return to the topic, the War on Christmas, if I may. Got a few questions for you all: Which of these religious holidays is a federal holiday: A) Christmas B) Hanukkah C) Eid-al-Adha Which of these religious holidays is a state holiday: A) Christmas B) Buddhas birthday C) Diwali Most manufacturers shut down their plants for which of these religious holiday seasons: A) Christmas B) Ramadan C) Rosh Hashonah through Yom Kippur D) Kwanzaa War on Christmas oh, please. Im sad to say, some of the complaints sound like whining from a spoiled majority who want to have their cake and eat it too. Perhaps the fact that I have to take vacation time to observe my religious holidays is actually a good thing. The fact that my holidays havent been turned into secular parties and spending extravaganzas is definitely a good thing. The fact that city hall cant put up a nativity scene, or salesclerks have to say Happy Holidays takes nothing away from what Christmas is all about. To those of you who think the true War on Christmas is the way society has diminished Christmas as a religious holiday I say, fight the good fight. Whatever holiday you celebrate, celebrate it from your heart. NC

Bruce, I am so sorry that anyone has given you any grief about doing what is right. And you are definitely not indulging in political correctness, or wimping out either. Unless you are 100% sure that everyone that's invited celebrates Christmas, calling it a "Holiday Party" is not political correctness - it's COMMON COURTESY. I object wholeheartedly to taking the Christ out of Christmas, or diminishing anyone's holidays. But I think we all have to appreciate that Christmas is not the only holiday falling in this season. In our pack, we have a few non-Christian scouts (about 5%). But I would rather have a dozen families ticked off by a "Holiday Party", than have one family feel excluded by a "Christmas Party". There is already a misconception, both in and out of scouting, that BSA is a Christian organization - which is a misconception we should try to dispel. But enough of that. You did the right thing - don't regret it, or let anybody get under your skin about it. Scout on, Brother!... and have a Merry Christmas. Novice Cubmaster

We crossed our Web2's (including my son) last year at B&G in February. All of them had their AOL & were getting a bit bored with Cub stuff. After crossing over, our boys had a chance to go on 3 campouts with the troop before Summer Camp. Those that did, did well at Summer Camp. I think the 3+ months of time our boys had to integrate into the troop before camp worked out perfectly - but 2 months probably would have been ok, too. Boy Scouting is on a whole different schedule and pace than Cubs, so both the new scout and their parents need some time to sync up with the new rhythm. In a 2-3 month period, a new scout should be able to go to 1-2 campouts, find a buddy, figure out where they are in the pecking order, etc. NC

Hi Mom162, Scoutldr did sum it up the best, but I would like to add a bit. Since the troop is a part of the Charter Org as well as BSA, then the troop should respect any rules specific to the Charter Org. In truth, any troop event/activity is an event/activity of the CO. So, I don't believe the COR is violating BSA religious principals here - the rules about food are the same at a troop campout and any other CO activity. OK - so much for the black and white. Let's get into the gray areas. I am a practicing Reform Jew. In our congregation, many events involve food. In Reform Judaism, the degree to which we keep kosher is a matter of conscience. At an event with food, nobody brings anything that is inherently unkosher (no pork, shellfish, cheeseburger casserole, meat of uncertain status, etc.), which works for most of us, but some families only eat the food that they've brought. Paper plates & plastic disposable cutlery solve most other problems. If your CO is a Reform congregation, you may have more latitude than you (or the COR) know. In fact, the Rabbi and board may decide that keeping kosher at troop events is a personal thing, in which case some of the stoves & cookware can be divided up as needed. In a conservative or orthodox congregation, the rules are going to be much stricter. Hopefully, a decision will come down that works for all parties. Good Luck, NC. PS - Personal "kosher" camping story. I found out about turkey bacon while camping with my older son's troop (their CO is Methodist). Most of their adult leaders have been read the riot act about cholesterol and fat, and had to make the change. For me, a yummy new option at breakfast. Some brands of turkey bacon are really good.

Dear kramr1, First off - thanks for being a concerned scouter and trying to give your son and the other boys in the den a positive scouting experience. Sounds like you have almost as big a problem with your CC as you do with the defective Den Leader. How involved is your COR with the Pack? Our Charter Org and COR used to pretty much let our pack run autonomously - they'd sign off on any potential leaders that the CC was ok with. Well, we had a bad situation erupt between the CM, some committee members and other leaders. It escalated to the point where our DE called a meeting of all leaders and the COR. The COR and the pastor of our Charter Org did NOT appreciate getting dragged into a "scout leader squabble", and did consider dropping the pack. (Which definitely would have ended the conflict). If your COR is actively involved, and hopefully knows some of the pack leaders, their help may clear things up. Especially in light of your wishy washy CC. Are there other committee members who will take a stand on the issues with the problem Den Leader? The last thing you need is getting the COR involved, then everybody clams up - and you look like the troublemaker. Good Luck! NC

Aloha kakahiaka, Kahuna! If Hawai'i had better border control and kept folks like Dole and Spreckels out, maybe the Kingdom would still be ruling the islands (and Hawai'i wouldn't need to secede). I guess we'd be up to Kamehameha XV or so by now. Perhaps the US getting overrun by illegal immigrants is just karma. Novice Cubmaster

I heartily second the suggestions made by Backpacker and Cubmaster Jerry. Invite your COR and other significant "officers" of your Charter Org to scout functions. Send thank you notes after recharter. If the CO is a church, have scouts show up at Scout Sunday in uniform & possibly make some public show of appreciation. Many CO's have permanent facilities & structures, but transient leaders. At the time of initial charter, your CO could have a pastor & board of trustees that are very gung ho about scouting & a few years later, they're all gone (and all the new people have no clue why they have a scout unit). NC

Katydid, If you have a good Charter Org that's committed to supporting the unit - absolutely bring them in. If you have the kind of C.O. that's happy to sponsor a unit as long as it's not causing them any headaches, you may want to see if the Unit Commissioner can help you resolve the problem first. NC

Gentlemen, As Ed says, "As Americans, we all have the same rights." One of these rights is that our government exhibits no religious prejudice or preference, at any level. The only way a public (ie governmental entity) can claim to be absolutely free of any religious prejudice or preference is if it remains unattached to any organization with a religious component or position. Which covers both the BSA as well as any atheist groups. Here in the South, it is not impossible for followers of one denomination to make up an overwhelming majority within a scout unit. Not a bad thing if the unit is chartered by a church of that denomination. However, it's not a good thing if the unit is chartered by a public school. Even if the school was completely unaffected by the religious composition and views of the unit it charters, it could raise doubts as to their impartiality. OK, maybe it wouldn't raise doubts for you and I. But how about for recent immigrants, taking citizenship lessons at night while their kids go to public school by day. They're taught that there's a separation between church and state, yet they see contradictions all over the place. I'd just as soon the BSA didn't add one more contradiction to the list. NC

ASM59, Let me apologize for not wishing you right off the bat, good luck & Godspeed in finding a new Charter Org before pursuing a tasty thread. NC

Actually, I can see why it is unethical for a Public School to charter a scout unit. (I'll pause while readers fetch their weapons). Being a chartering organization is not passive support. It is not the same as allowing students to have a prayer session before school at the flagpole. Chartering a scout unit goes beyond simply providing a room for meetings and a place to park the unit trailer. A scout unit is, in effect, a part of the chartering organization. Both in a legal, and ethical sense. As a PUBLIC, taxpayer funded entity, a public school should be religiously neutral. They should not extend more than passive support to any group that has a religious aspect. This includes both the BSA where "any religion is OK", as well as any group espousing or requiring atheism. Many people, especially here in the South, (or those associated with BSA) cannot distinguish between being religiously neutral and being atheist. Now, the other side of the equation. Is it ethical for us to want a publicly funded institution as a CO? Is it ethical for us to expect a public school to endorse our religious views? And perhaps desire that they not endorse other viewpoints? The fact that scouting is a great program, and is of tremendous value doesn't change the fact that by endorsing any sort of religious viewpoint it is unethical for scouting to be embedded in a publicly funded institution. And vice versa. Novice Cubmaster

Kittle, While I wont discount the points made about training and YP, that's not the problem. The problem is the Bear den leader is running amok and disrupting planned events. Even if no rules were violated, you can't have a leader changing things around like he did. This is a pack leadership problem and I'd suggest getting all the leaders and committee members together and explaining why this isn't the way a pack should work. BUT... don't fail to bring up that a number of rules were broken, too. Chances are, if unchecked, this den leader will make things even more difficult when his den hits Webelos rank. Our pack had a Web2 leader that "marched to the beat of his own drummer". While he wasn't disruptive to the pack as a whole, it took extra measures from some of the other pack leaders to make sure HIS Webelos got their AOL and crossed over as planned. Nip it in the bud. And if the rest of the pack leadership doesn't back you, then take it as a "vote of no confidence" and let them elect a new Cubmaster more to their liking. Scouting takes hard work, but it should not be a painful ordeal. You can't put on a good program if you're not enjoying it too. Good luck and (seriously) happy scouting! Novice Cubmaster

Dear ConnCM, My youngest son was born with multiple congenital heart defects (mostly repaired) and was a Tiger last year - so, I've got a pretty good idea of the situation. There definitely are things in the Tiger program that are physically challenging to even a mildly disabled child. Also, Tiger-age is exactly where these kids are self-aware enough to compare their capabilities to their non-disabled peers. Being creative with alternatives is a fantastic idea - like the crossbow idea for archery. Absolutely involve the parents in coming up with ideas, too. First off, they have the best handle on what their son's limitations really are. Having one of the parents along, at any level should be OK with everybody, too. Secondly, the parents probably belong to a support group or take their son to physical therapy - both can provide the parents with tons of alternatives to share with their son's DL. The DL shouldn't have to research & invent a special needs program on his/her own. There are specialized camps for kids with various disablities/disorders, and they are wonderful (my son goes to 2). However, giving these kids a chance to participate to the best of their ability in a program with "normal" kids is what most of us "special" parents pray for every night. Both as a "special" parent and a Cubmaster, I applaud any efforts to make scouting available to all boys. Good Luck & God Bless!!!

We were always fortunate enough to have dads with well stocked workshops available for various projects. I think there was also a fair amount of competition between the dads as to who had the most tools - but I digress. My only suggestion is to make sure that all the parents understand NO POWER TOOLS - keep 'em out of sight/locked up if you've got Cubs in your workshop! Drove me nuts hearing: "my dad lets me use ..." and "but I let my kid use ... at home"