Novice_Cubmaster

So, what if your religion doesn't do kneeling? (sorry, had to ask) NC

Hi WDL Mom, Your CC/COR may be trained, but they aren't doing their job. Our pack has the same problem. In our pack, I don't think its a problem with "giving up control" - I think our CC has a hard time asking for anything, not just help. We've had a couple of events that probably should have been cancelled because our CC didn't round up any volunteers - but some of our Den Leaders always jump in at the last minute to save the day. Unfortunately, this has convinced our CC that we can get by without additional help. Might want to try getting a discussion going at roundtable with your CC & other CC's about how to set up committees and keep them going. Good Luck, NC

Hi Baden, I think you set a fine example - you let those scouts know that it was ok to not take communion. You did a good thing - both for those scouts, and the church & neither party's rules were broken. Now, finish watching the Super Bowl! NC

Hi Yvonne, My wife & I are both Cub Leaders. Neither one of us begrudges the BSA our "hour a week". But it's really annoying when doesn't make that hour productive. The faster RT can go from The Pledge of Allegiance to a useful breakout session, the better. If others want to hang around after the "business" has been dealt with, shoot the breeze, eat birthday cake, whatever, afterwards - thats fine. And there are times when I would stick around and do that, but when I can't, I can't. OK - I'm done whining now... Remind your packs that they can rotate who goes to RT - The CC & CM can switch off obviously, but some of the more experienced Den Leaders & Committee people should be able to represent the pack now & again. For ex - when Webelos to Scout transition is the big topic, tell your packs to send their Web Leaders. NC

What I cant figure out is why don't Packs recharter in September or October? We get new scouts at the elementary school roundup in Sept. & we get our returning scouts back in late August, just before school starts. We may pick up 2-3 boys after Sept., but that's not the norm. Every January, we get our recharter packet. It contains a primitive report of all our scouts & leaders. Everyone's paid status is marked on the report by hand with red pen. The only group thats nearly 100% right are the scouts picked up at that year's roundup. And, as others have mentioned, there's always this bizarre time lag/prorated Boys Life situation. In our area, it looks like things would be simplified if all the returning scouts & leaders were re-registered and paid for in the Sept/Oct time frame. Then all the "personnel", Boy's Life and money issues are done by November. Then, as a separate function, do recharter in January - February. At which point, it should be mostly a verification process. NC

Hi TwoSirius, Gotta quote gwd-scouter, "nothing you learn in a classroom or from a book will prepare you for the real world of Cubmastership. Or, for that matter, any position you may hold in Scouting. " To keep it fun & fresh, definitely network at monthly roundtables. If you can, ask to visit pack meetings at other local packs & see what they do - what's old hat for them may be brand new for you (plus you get to see firsthand what works & what doesn't). One absolute must - don't unofficially take on any additional duties. For example, just because you go on all the campouts & outings, don't get stuck organizing them too. Don't become a crutch every time there aren't enough volunteers for an event or activity. The CC & the Committee should be getting the bodies. Another must - never underestimate the power of a good ceremony. If there was one place I'd put more time into, it would be ceremonies. That said, there's nothing like the feeling you get when you get it right. Good luck whether you go for the CM spot, or stay as a Den Leader. NC

Hi Terry, Please let us know how the Baloo training went down your way. I'm up in the Northeast GA council and the Baloo training I took was a 4-5 hour waste of time. I would drive down to McDonough if they put on a class worth attending in your neck of the woods. NC

Wow - lousy situation. Have to join in with Trev, Aquila Calva & others - "exploring Buddhism" may be the route for this young man to take. It satisfies the DRP and (more importantly) does give this young man an ethical/moral framework to operate within without much dogma to wrestle with. Personally, I don't know that anyone really has religion or knows what they truly believe in until life's kicked them around a bit. Hopefully, this young man can stay in scouts, grow up & let his beliefs develop in their own timeframe. Good luck to you & your "doubting Thomas" NC

As my sainted (and very twisted) mother used to say: "I want you to eat every carrot and pea on your plate." I like to think my mom is up in heaven, laughing her backside off at me being a scout leader & spreading some of the bizarre things I learned from her to such a wide audience. NC

An extrapolation for you all... Let's say we (Adult BSA Leaders) take a BSA training class and it didn't cover all the material, or did a poor job conveying the information. Should we decline accepting OUR signoff card & retake the class (hopefully from a different trainer)? Or should we take the card and do our best to finish up on our own as needed? NC

Say, Ed - "So apparently homosexuals want special rights! ... Does anyone have proof homosexuality is nothing more than a lifestyle?" Religious Beliefs are lifestyle choices, yet they are afforded constitutional protection. Whether it's lifestyle or innate behavior, allowing someone to follow their own sexual orientation would be as important as following their own religious beliefs.

Hi all, question - is 100% Boys Life really a sign of a quality unit? And if so, why? The cynic in me says its just another $18 (or so) per head, which shouldn't be a sign of quality. OTOH, I do think that 100% participation in Popcorn Sales (or whatever the chosen fundraiser is) IS a sign of a quality unit. Not that a scout has to meet any mandatory sales figure, but that you did at least sell 1 can of popcorn in support of scouting & your unit. NC

I think Dizzy ona Cliff is on to something. As to the 2 other boys in the tent - I would bet that they would have stopped the scout with the knife if he was intentionally or maliciously trying to damage the tent. But when boys are goofing around, they don't always connect actions with consequences. I remember at age 12 throwing rocks with my buddies at a big bug on a wall - completely oblivious to the neon sign about 2 feet away from the bug. When this was pointed out to us, we felt like total morons. It may not have occurred to any of them that the tent could get damaged. Its often easier to admit to misbehaving than admit to being dumb.

Hi Packwife, As a parent, I'd be concerned that the various adult leaders didn't pick up on the fact that such behavior isn't normal for your son. "Gee, Johnny doesn't usually say ***** when he's mad". Another point of parental concern is, when does razzing turn into hazing? We're always reminding the Cubs that what seems like harmless teasing can easily cross the line. And sometimes, Boy Scouts are just big Cub Scouts with hormones. NC

Ed, Are you stating that SPAM is a stinky putrid mess made FROM animals, or BY animals? I've never been convinced that SPAM is of animal origin. At least any native Earth animals. Save me a slice of the meatloaf. NC

Hi YellowHammer, re: "Your argument is very close to "all the other kids are doing it" logic. The toothpaste is already out of the tube on heterosexual marriages. We can only fix the problem by raising the general level of morality in society. Allowing gay marriages won't help. " The anti-gay marriage faction would have a much stronger leg to stand on if overall heterosexual behavior was more moral. People in glass houses... Since religion & morality are so tightly bound, I don't know that our diverse society can come up with a more uniform stance on gays, premarital sex, abortion, etc.. But I hope that someday society in the US might at least arrive at a national sense of what constitutes responsible behavior - especially in regards to having and raising children. And frankly, personal responsibility would fix a lot of other problems in this country. PS- It's a pleasure to exchange ideas with you. There's no substitute for politeness & civility. NC

Hi Ed & YellowHammer, I don't think same sex marriage is anywhere nearly as big a threat to the fiber of our society as irresponsible heterosexual mating and breeding. In scouts, and other youth organizations I work with, I've seen too many messed up kids from "broken homes". "Broken Homes" - what a bogus euphemism. These homes weren't "broken" - they were never were in working order. Married or not, these parents shouldn't have ever been together, let alone making children. Welfare and other social programs have removed the economic consequences from irresponsible breeding. Social "enlightenment" has taken the stigma away from shacking up, illegitimacy and divorce. All of this has made it easier on the parents, but I think the kids are still paying the price (differently than 50 years ago, but they're still the ones most adversely affected). How heterosexuals behave is more of a threat to the sanctity of marriage and the fiber of society than anything homosexuals can do. Novice Cubmaster.

Dear Trevorum, So, if the bible has no special place in the BSA, whose moral standards/religious laws ARE the basis for excluding homosexuals? Perhaps those pesky Zoroastrians are to blame... NC

I don't know that this is a big deal. Nowadays, you have fewer predominantly Jewish neighborhoods. Due to travel restrictions on the Sabbath, Orthodox Jewish families strive to live within walking distance of their synagogue. However, Reform and Conservative Jewish families live all over the place, and not necessarily close to the synagogue they attend. So, many Reform and Conservative Jewish scouts end up joining their neighborhood pack/troop, along with all their schoolmates and fellow kids on the block. And chances are that the neighborhood unit isn't chartered by a synagogue. For example, the CO for my oldest son's troop is a Presbyterian Church & the CO for my youngest's pack is a Methodist Church. Our synagogue doesn't have a pack or troop, but does do something special with the scouts in our congregation on Scout Shabbat. And about the same percentage of scouts in our congregation have earned their religious emblem as scouts in my sons' units. So, unless all the COs in your area restrict their membership by denomination - all God's children are happy. NC

Kudos to Mr. Cass. What a beautiful piece of writing. And thanks to Ma Scout for posting the link. NC

Hi all, Once again, sounds like a lot of adults making a tempest in a teapot. Have three questions for you all. I'm not suggesting that the BSA should drop the DRP and most other religious aspects of the program... But if they did: A: Do you think the boys would notice? B: Do you think it would really change the BSA that much? C: Would it change how you served as a scout leader, or the program you put on? I really love the religious emblem program. There's true effort required of the Scout, and he really should get something spiritual out of it. From my limited experience, most of the other religious aspects of scouting don't have that sort of substance, and to some degree trivialize religious practice. PS - Imagine if you would a BSA that allowed atheists, and that there was an emblem program for them. Could be that learning more about what they don't believe in might open their minds... NC

Hi all, I've read a lot 3rd person accounts in this forum where leaders have disagreed with BSA policy, and acted toward the BSA in an unacceptable way (lawsuits, etc). Subsequently, these rebellious leaders have supposedly been punished in some fashion by the BSA. In some respects, it sounds like an "urban myth" within the scouter community. Has anyone any direct experience with BSA retribution against a leader expressing disagreement in a rational and courtious way? I too, have seen many non-professional leaders that think the BSA is infallible and that disagreement (not dissent) is heresy. But, I've never seen any official cracking down on mere questioning or discussion around disagreement with policy. Thanks, NC

Hi all, Got a couple of questions Per fgoodwin's post: Re: Webelos Den Overnight Camping, refer to page 21-11 of the Cub Scout Leader Book (I have the the 2001 edition, but I think it says the same thing in the current edition): Webelos den overnight campouts are parent-son events . . . In most cases, a Webelos Scout is under the supervision of his own father, mother or guardian. Another quote from page 33-4: Webelos Scout overnight campouts introduce the boy and his parent or guardian to the basics of the Boy Scout camping program . . . In most cases, the Webelos Scout will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. Both citations use the words "In most cases". What are the other cases? I recently took Baloo training (which, due to the instructor was an utter waste of 5 hours), and the question came up "If Webelos can't camp without parents, what do we need Webelos Leader Outdoor Training for?". After a long pause, the answer was "You don't really need it for anything". Given that the instructor was so weak, I'm sure there really is a reason to take the WLOT (or OWL, whatever it is this week). But, if Webelos still HAVE to HAVE a parent along on a Den Campout, then it must be more of a program-based reason than safety. Can anyone shed some light on the subject? Thanks, NC

Hi all, Based on the training offered in our area, I can understand being concerned as to the value of any BSA training. That said, I've heard that Wood Badge is actually put on by a professional training company, hired by BSA. Is that true? And if so, does anyone know who is the provider. Thanks, Novice Cubmaster

I agree with GernBlansten, the pledge IS better with the "G" word in it. From here on, I will say "One nation under Gern". Lisabob - I truly appreciate your posts. You do a great job making your points (and letting people know your toes were stepped on) without getting nasty. To me, the real purpose of these forums is for us to expose ourselves to a broad range of opinions and customs - not all of which may sit well with some of us. But hopefully, we'll learn something from all of it. PS: Packsaddle - Life of Brian is 27 years old! Good Shabbat to you all. NC