nldscout

If I was the MBC who's signiture was forged, there would be no question as to what to do. I would already be at the police swearing out a complaint for forgery. This is not an issue where a scout cheated on a requirement, HE BROKE THE LAW, in a big way and needs to be treated accordingly. This is serious business and needs to be corrected right now. The committee has no business discussing this, it should be turned over to law enforcement for proper action.

MIKI101, You may think the CE's know about this, but maybe just in your area. No one in our area has seen this, heard of this or knows anything about it to include the patch companies we deal with. Still sounds to me like another "Grey Area" letter.

See thats the problem, the CE that I talked to hasn't seen or heard of it, nor has others he called while I sat there. so again I am asking "Where's the Beef?"

Funny isn't it that only a couple of people have seen this document, now we are told is not for dissemination. Makes me wonder if its really official, sounds like the "Grey Area" letter that has beeen floating around for years that is porported to be "Official" policy If you have seen this letter, make a copy, scan it, post it. Until then I will follow nationals posted guidelines on scouting.org

I would like to see this supposed document also, as no one at my council has seen it or our 2 neigboring councils or anyone else I have talked to. So if you have seen this supposed documents, please post them.

I have one word that would cure this from ever happening in the future JAIL

11K in popcorn averages to about 3300 for the pack. Where is that money going?

Sorry, but according to our CE who called a friend at NE Region. They never heard of such a policy. Yes the symbols are protected, but are open for use for scouting purposes.

Sure wish I knew what Brian was saying before it got whacked

LongHaul The answer to that question is a BIG NO. I am afraid they would have to change or I would leave. Don't ya just love those that make the rules as they go.

I am also in CNY's council. We have had many discussions about this and I will tell you it is cropping up in councils all over. So look for more to do it. Look at it from a councils perspective. Out of the 10 dollars registration the council keeps 0.00. It all goes to national. So they need to raise money somehow to provide program support that we all love to hate.

OGE, I am glad you asked, because its been bothering me all day as to what a Polish Canon was, just didn't have the sense to ask.

Brent, Let me explain this from the legal point of view. In NY, and I cannot speak for other states, before your 19th birthday, you are considered a youthful offender. This applies to both Misdemnors and Felonies, except for certain felonies like murder. You are tried and found guilty or plead guilty in court, your conviction is set aside, a youthful offender finding is substituted for it, all the records are sealed. No person is allowed to see these records without court permission, an ordinary citizen can not ask about them, and cannot view them. In the eyes of the law the conviction never happened. He has a clean slate, atleast on the first instance. So your on this EBOR, here comes this young man, you think you know the outcome, but because its sealed, you don't know for sure. You can't ask because its a sealed file. The young man was advised by his lawyer to not talk about it. So like it or not, you have no proof of conviction. So if you vote no, what written reason are you going to give? How can you articulate as is required what he must do to improve inorder to pass the next EBOR. So lets say you vote no, he appeals, what do you say to national? "I know he did it, I just cannot prove it." Who do you think is going to win the appeal? I know its a tough pill to swallow, I would not want to be on the EBOR, infact I would not sit on the board. In the case of the 2 15yr olds, we may never know what the outcome is. Sometimes the law sucks. But, I don't make them, I just enforce them.

Speaking first as a Judge and then as a scouter, my first question would be How would you know what the true punishment that he recived was and what the agreements with the court were. This young man was under 18 and in all the states that I know should have been judged a Youthful offender. In NY where I am, before his 19th birthday his conviction would be automatically set aside and sealed. No one should be party to his conviction or punishment status and you are not allowed to inquire about it. So given those rules, you would have no justification for denying him eagle, because in the eyes of the public it didn't happen. As a scouter, I know it disturbs me to have to do it this way, but what would your grounds for denying him advancement be? Like Eamonn says a great problem today is parents not making thier children to have to stand up and say "I did something wrong and am prepared to suffer the consequences for my action". I see 16-18 yr olds all time that come into court with a parent and the parent always tries to step in and speak about how its someone elses fault, little johnny/jane would never have done this if his/her evil friends didn't talk them into it.

Gonzo "I'm an Eagle, been ASM, SM, ASM again, Unit Commissioner, WDL. I served for 24 years in the military both enlisted and officer and was an Aide to a Brigadier General and I was an Executive Officer of a surgical unit in an Army hospital. The point is...... I know how to lead people. No offense personally to any of you, especially Brent, SueM and LadyLeader (even Fuzzy, Merlyn, etc......) I'm not sure what more I could gain." How about maybe you could learn some people skills, or politness, or maybe the meaning of the scout oath and laws.

WHOOSH !!!! Boy is this discussion flying right over my head..... I sure could use some GRITS

HUH?????

Like it or not what this young man did is a crime. In most states he would be judged a juvinile delinquent. Like I said its time to nip this in the bud. He should have been sent home right there on the spot, no discussion, no talking. Call the parents and send him home.

While some may have thought my comment was harsh, as a judge I see teenages come before me that have commited crimes, that started off with things such as this and all everyone did was down play the incidents, one after another. Next thing it was on to bigger and better types of crimes. You need to be proactive, firm, and nip this problem right now before it escalates. Paul

yea, that would be my question too. What is a non-scouting event? If its planned at troop meetings, discussed in committee, and only involves scouts with troop assests, that would make it a scouting event. as far as DL number, at least in NY, it does not cross over to SSN in any system I know. I don't see as DL number is a biggie, if you go to store to cash check they write the number on the check in a lot of places. But it is just a number thats all. And if the rest of the states are like NY, the records are hopelessly out of date anyway.

Trevorum What happens if you make less that 15%? Does the Uniform Police strip your uniform of insignia and send you home? Camporees should be break even events.

Shoot, Nip this in the bud early. Have the little munchkin arrested and thrown in jail for a day

gwd-scouter If you going to wear an official uniform you have to wear it correctly. If they are wearing green shirts with Boy Scout Green pants, thats a big NO-NO. Call your Local Chief of the Uniform Police and have them issue some citations.

ASM146, I do have a question though? AED's typically cost about $1000-2000 apeice. You raised that much in fees from a district Camporee? If you did I submitt that you way overcharged for it. I don't see an AED as a legitimate charge to a district camporee and I and several other SM's would be a bit upset if we found out thats what was going on with the camporee fee's, subsidizing council.

In our council in NY the Office was going to start checking DL's on Some tour permits, until they found out that the State of NY wanted $7.00 for each records check. So that was scrapped real quick.