njdrt-rdr

I guess we've always just done it wrong, but were never told different and didn't realize any different. I guess we let logic take over. When we have one turn 18, they fill out an adult app, take YPT, and get registered as unit college scouter reserve and we let them participate with the scouts, they just can't sleep in a tent with the scout. Generally, it's just for a couple months and through the summer until they head off to college, trade school or whatever they do.  IMHO, all of this lawyer type rules is part of the thing that's ruining scouting and ruining leaders who don't want to lead anymore. 

One way it can control unit activities is if the location closes. For example we are supposed to be just regular weekend troop camping at the local council camp and the council camp is closed.

On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 9:04 AM, elitts said:

As JoeBob said, a hammock was the best thing I ever bought for camping.  I'm still going to take a nap on Sunday afternoon, but I'm no longer so tired that I'm not functional.  A 20 minute shower and an hour or two nap and I'm pretty much recovered.

So, one of my issues is lying flat. At home I actually sleep in a recliner. I've done a hammock and it was more comfortable in that than flat in a tent, once I got in it. But body build doesn't lend itself to hammock camping. I'm short and really fat and have difficulty getting in and out of the hammock. I did try a hammock  at summer camp and it was strung up inside a lean-to that had a closed in front. So when I rolled out of the thing onto the floor to get up in the morning it wasn't visible to everyone in camp...LOL...I also have trouble because I'm short and I can't reach high enough on the trees to tie up a hammock and a rain fly. I did purchase a hammock with a bug net built in but after trying it, I fear me getting stuck inside the thing when I can't sit up to get to the zipper to open the bug net. When we are camping close to the parking lot where we are,  I've actually resorted to just sleeping in seat in my van now. 

I've given up on getting decent sleep on a campout. I come home wiped out every time and it takes me a day or so to recouperate.

4 hours ago, ValleyBoy said:

Up until this past week our troop was planning to attend our local councils summer camp.  last week while sitting on an Eagle Board the SM and I learned the summer camp had completely changed the summer camp program.  The program in the past had been to sign each scout up in the different merit badge time slots during summer camp.  We would have our new scouts take first aid and swimming  then what ever other classes they would like to take during summer camp.  Older scouts that had been to camp before could sign up for any classes they would like to take as long as they took one Eagle required class.  For this summer the camp has changed to a quest type program were each scouts signs up for a different quest that has about 4 merit badges that will be worked on inside that quest. Example of one of the quest. World Conservation—Environmental Science, Bird Study, Insect Study, Forestry, Nature.   If the scout wanted to take Environmental Science they would also have to take the others also even thought they might have no interest in any of the others or might already have the other merit badges.

We were informed of this change by another local SM and are working out the details of a week long canoe trip on one of our local rivers.  At last nights scout meeting we met with the parents an presented this change to them since we knew that some of them would have concerns about a canoe trip.  Then we informed the scouts, they we upset when we told them why we would not be going to summer camp until we told them about the canoe trip and the reason behind not doing summer camp.  

As a troop we do not have the adult resources to both summer camp and the canoe trip.

For the issue of not enough adults.　

In the past for summer camp, we've juggled adults at camp so that no one had to take an entire week off work. We even broke it down to time slots during the day. We had one adult would would come to camp at 7pm, and stay until 7am and then go to to work. At 7am another adult (a dad or a mom) would come and spend the day at camp and cover that time slot. It was a bit of juggling but it worked. It was also a good experience for some adults that don't generally go to anything to see what the boys did at camp. It was very sucessful.　

As far as the merit badge program changing. Are there any other camps you can go to? We have 4 that are within an hour to hour and a half away. We've been to them all. 　

I'd be curious to know how this goes. We have not switched yet because troop master has the offline app.

It truly is a mess trying to actually abide by the rules. We have the issue with eagle projects now. A scout is working with his mentor or his parent and a group of scouts on some eagle work days and now that has to be 2 leaders present, when you only have a few leaders in your troop to begin with, it's friggin hard, leaders only have so much time and it seems like scouts just assumes that all you want to do is scouting stuff 24x7 365.

So lets ask another technical question. Going by the letter of the law, Can a leader drive to a campout with 4 scouts in the car.There's now only 1 leader present.

We meet once a week as a whole troop its usually school cafeteria, our local park or our charter org location. When it's PLC it's either at one of those locations or a leaders house. Scout master conferences and board of review happen at the same place during the troop meeting.

1 hour ago, ValleyBoy said:

One other adult leader with our troop attended with his son but even if he had not attended the event 2 deep adult leadership was followed since other adults were at the event.  Alarm bells only ring if the rules are not followed.

Technically isn't this against the rules now? I thought the rules were any outing the scouts participate in has to be attended by 2 "registered scout leaders"...

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 10:35 AM, qwazse said:

 

Before going to World Jamboree, I thought that co-ed was inevitable. Not so much now. My troop of boys saw a variety of configurations -- in some cases a country's girl-scouts and boy-scouts camped together for just this event. In other cases events like this were nothing new. And, in other cases it was a little weird that opposite sexes could not share a tent at Jambo. There wasn't all that much excitement that we just opened the program to girls.

I didn't get the impression that our boys were considered backward. I did get the impression that other country's boy scout and girl scout programs play a lot nicer together. So, assuming that the 10K other BSA members at WSJ got the same impression, there's not a lot of push for change. There will always be rogue troops who will thumb their nose at Ellie Morrison and live co-ed under the linked banner. But, it will take a generation of girls who work the program to decide if that needs to be pushed nationally.

While they say co-ed is not the plan and should not be happening. I'm at our local cub pack blue and gold Sunday and one of the boys crossing over has an older sister with a scout uniform on. We start talking to her to find out she is in a troop in another council because the troop in the town next door, runs their troops, boys and girls together. All meetings are together, all campouts are together, every activity and event is together. She went to a different troop because she wanted to be a troop of girls, not a co-ed troop. She said she loves it because they can do stuff and not have to worry about dealing with boys.. So while on paper the two troops (that have the same troop number) are two different troops, they are operating as one. 

52 minutes ago, qwazse said:

Yeah, @njdrt-rdr, it doesn't flow very well. But this was permitted in response to boots on the ground. Numbers usually track with the CO. So, each of the CO's units -- be it a Pack, Troop, Crew, Post, or Ship -- asks for the same number. And those numbers are held with a lot of pride. To give someone under the same roof a different number is tantamount to telling them they aren't one of us.  To ask someone to change numbers in the face of a merger is asking them to abandoning their heritage. (I've been in the middle of such shenanigans for as long as I've been a scouter.) With the addition of BSA4G, units demanded an option to be linked, by number, with their female counterparts.

In retrospect, maybe we should have thought of a parallel name for "troop": squadron? platoon? eyrie?

Regarding your immediate problem let's try thanks from :

• Troop 87, Pack 87, Troops 99b, & Troops 99g
• Troop 87, Pack 87, &Troops 99 (b&g)
• Troop 87, Pack 87, & Troops 99

When I acknowledge the youth who help me place flags at the cemetery, I include the GS Troops and their long numbers. If they all became BSA4G units, I'd save ink (well, pixels).

I just think it brings about too much confusion and boots on the ground weren't required to think about the big picture. This wasn't a merger or asking a troop to change it's number. These are new troops forming, cut and dry. New troops should have new numbers. Whether they have the same leadership and charter as another troop really should have nothing to do with it. When it all boils down, no matter what anyone wants to say, they are a separate troop (at this point in time). The boys are their own troop and the girls are their own troop. As far as not being part of "us" if we had a different number, It would be like having a pack and every den having the same den number. Or a district saying every troop has to have the same number to feel they are a part of the district.

and don't get me started on B and G...Those darn letters sound so similar, maybe it should be M and F. I will be at roundtable will the person in front will say if you want info talk to troop 64 b...And I'll be like did he say 64b or 64g?

It's stupid..

I gotta vent. I have to say that the decision by National to allow a girl troop and a boy troop have the same troop number in the same district is idiotic and then to preference with one is Troop 187 B and the other is Troop 187 G....How do you explain that to the general public...For instance we are working with multiple troop and packs for a food drive. THe flyer would usually says thanks from Troop 87, pack 87 and troop 99..So now Troop 99 has a boy troop and a girl troop. So do we modify it and says thanks from Troop 99 Boys and Troop 99 Girls?...Such an idiotic move to further draw a distinction beween boys and girls that did not need to be there. A troop is a troop, doesn't matter if it's a boy troop or a girl troop. Any new troop formed, even if it shares leadership or a charter org should have had to have a new troop number. But, in my opinion I guess it won't matter in a couple years when all troops are co-ed anyway.

That's some real backwards logic he has there. Scouting is not an infinite program. It's like saying that the amount of kids in school are dwindling because they are graduating...Huh....part of an active well run troop is a solid flow of scouts into the troop. The failure of a troop is not because of scouts ranking out and leaving, it's because of scouts not coming in.

It happens with my troop also. Highschool brings about other commitments and scouts usually goes by the wayside. Some may hang around just enough to finish their eagle. Unfortunately after 1st class, there's no requirements in the ranks that require them to go on outings. Not to mention balancing any activity in high school with scouts is extremely hard. My kid is in drama club and they practice 6 days a week for the entire school season. If they are in a sport, it's even worse. Also you have to realize that by this point, they've been in scouts for 9 to 12 years and scouts is year round, it never stops. They may just be losing interest. It's hard to hold interest I've seen. There's always a new crop of scouts coming into the troop that run around, fool around, don't listen, etc...The older boys in our troop have not been able to distinguish between leading/teaching vs babysitting..They all forget how they were when they came into the troop.

I'm a committee chair for the troop and was for the pack. The CC takes care of the Charter, all the SM does is sign it when it's ready.

Total hogwash.

If I had to have parents present every time I discussed with a scout about his behavior or remarks or actions being incorrect, parents would have to be present 100% of the time at every meeting, campout, etc..

3 hours ago, Sentinel947 said:

Guide to safe Scouting requires two registered adults over 21 for all Scouting activities. 

Hmm...That never dawned on me with an eagle project...I'm sure I'm wrong, I guess generally it never clicked to me as a scout event because it wasn't run by the troop.

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 10:34 PM, swilliams said:

Then you have the new requirement that all Eagle projects must have two registered adults present. 

Can you tell me where you saw this requirement?

My kid is a sophomore. There's no shot at him wearing a Class A uniform to school for the day. It would be more possible for them with wear a class B shirt but since that is not an official uniform that can't happen either.

On ‎9‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 11:43 AM, ParkMan said:

Just as a point of note.  Your council's scout executive and district executive have just about 0 influence on the national fees.  The council is completely separate from the national organization. Ouir council's exec and board is just as frustrated as we all are with this.  

 

While that's totally true, they get paid to do their job and their job is to deal with National and deal with all the crap that should not be happening at our level. However crap rolls down hill and the volunteers at the bottom are the ones that take the brunt of it. Way back, 12 years ago I had fond memories of my time in scouts as a kid and I knew I wanted to be a leader and thought that even when my kid was done with scouts, I'd keep on as a volunteer. Well over the last 12 years, that attitude has severely changed. I don't have faith in the program or leadership of it anymore. I'm just glad my son is close to done.

Depends on the reason he's struggling. For my son it was often just not paying attention in some subjects, talking too much and not getting instructions, not writing down homework etc. Others were he just didn't get the info that was being taught, that was math. He struggled pretty much almost every year in math from the 1st grade to now which is 9th grade.　

In grammar school after forgetting to hand in homework or forgetting he had homework beacuse he didn't write the assignment down. I did drop the hammer, I told him no more scouts, no more playing basketball, no more friends ever coming over the house, no more dirtbike riding until he figured out how to stop talking and pay attention to the most important thing he has going which was school work. That fixed most things. But on an odd note. One day he forgets his math sheet for homework, I'm ready to explode but stay calm, Of course it's a troop meeting night. I say we will go to the meeting at school early, get your sheet and do it before the meeting. So we do that and he's in the meeting room trying to do the sheet and he can't figure out what to do. With that our SPL walks in to start getting the meeting set up and I ask the SPL...Do you know how to do this stuff? Can you help him. He says 'sure I'm in honors math (Junior)' that became the start of us hiring him for a weekly 1 hour tutoring session. We are on our third older scout tutor. He needed tutoring in 5th, 6th and part of 7th and needs one again now in 9th. Ours tutors have always been older scouts that were in honors math. Seems to click pretty well as they are comfortable with each other. Ask some of the older scouts in your troop, odds are you may have someone available and they like to make extra cash.

On ‎12‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 12:03 PM, Eagledad said:

I tried the hammock because I'm always looking for something to smooth out the hard ground. But I couldn't fall a sleep while shaped like a taco shell.

Scouts enjoyed it for naps.

Barry

I haven't slept on a hammock in cold weather but I was intrigued about trying a hammock for sleeping. I'm a short really fat dude and didn't want to try one in public. we had an empty lean to at summer camp and I strung one up in there. Didn't want to have the boys watch me try and navigate a hammock for the first time or trying to roll out of the thing.....It was a bit rough for me to get out of. But OMG....I slept solid all night long and never woke up...that doesn't happen to me even sleeping on cot or a bunk...I loved it...

It's been a few weeks since the original announcement - the BSA will have gotten a lot of feedback from people.  Back when they made this statement, that was their intention.  Did you give any thought to the probability that their position on this might change after a few weeks of feedback before you accused them of blatantly lying?

 

If you asked me for a loan of $100 4 weeks ago and I said I didn't have the money and you asked me again today and I did have the money, would you say my earlier statement was a blatant lie?  Circumstances change - they change all the time.  Changing ones mind or approach due to changing circumstances or additional information does not make a previous statement a lie - it makes it obsolete.

 

I fully expect that the position will change a few more times before its finally implemented.  We get it, you don't like this change - but accusing them of lying when their intentions evolve is just not Scout-like.

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This isn't about borrowing a hundred bucks and someones intentions. Your buddy asked you a question twice and each time was a different legitimate answer, So no, you didn't lie to him. 　

But co-ed wasn't a question, it was a statement made by the head of the BSA. You don't run a company based off intentions you base them from fact and business plans.　

This is a multi billion dollar organization that is supposed to be laying out ground rules and direction for people to offer their program. People who volunteer and spend time away from family activities to run this program. they spend an extraordinary amount of time. By your correlation we would never have anything solid to go on for any topic because in a couple weeks they may change their intention. Businesses can't run off intentions. They stated "it will not be co-ed", that is not an intention, that is a factual statement they have made. If they were to say "it may not be co-ed"....That would be an intention and that means it needs further clarification after the issue is discussed more. It's just the whole cloudy nature by which they have done everything is what gets people riled up and leaving volunteers to guess at answers and handle all the questions coming to them without any information from the governing body It gets tiring.

  One thing that our unit does with each new scout is gives them a binder when they join the unit with the tenderfoot thru 1st class requirements. 

Curious to why you give them a binder when it's already in the scout handbook?

He also said in that video that this was just a discussion on whether they should persue discussing the topic. And that they were under no pressure at all to make a decision. And that they should not make a decision until they had everything ironed out on how Girls should earn eagle, how they should integrate into troops, how they should handle OA. Yup he said all those things, then rushed to a decision without the answers to any of the questions that said they definitely needed to answer before making a decision. It's hard to be a member of a ship when you have no faith or confidence in the person piloting the ship.