NIscouter

I re-read this post and realized it may seem that I was serious about being upset with myself. No, just a poor attempt at humor. This does happen to me from time to time, just ask the scouts/scouters in my troop :>

I had recently used the "ignore post" feature to help me from seeing red from one of our more "interesting" forum members. I was reading a few of my own contributions, got annoyed with myself, and wanted to use the "ignore posts" feature to avoid reading them again and to help calm my nerves. But this feature was not availible for me? Can anyone help me here?

SR540Beaver - The response your son gave was one I saw, said, and experienced as a scout... in the early 1970s!! I think kids are always looking for a reason to single out somebody as being "different" and make fun of, and scouts in uniforms give them an easy target. I think, Trev, that your son really did mean "a" scout uniform, one that is identified with BSA. I still am a bit uncomfortable at times being seen in the uniform due to my experiences with it as a scout. But I have a thicker skin now and have pretty well overcome it, unlike most our boys who appear to live and die by the opinion of thier peers.

I decided to use curmogeon as it was, in my mind at least, similar to contrarian (sp) and one I could use my spell checker to correct. Maybe I should have said that some people seem to argue for the arguements sake. Or maybe I streached it a bit.

Hmm, except for the knives, sounds like a few of our scouts :> I just got done with a search on ODD - thought you were pulling our legs but as seems to happen to me too often, I was wrong. I think that you were put between the proverbial rock and a hard place. Keeping all of the scouts safe is always an important consideration. We always seem to have a few of the boys who don't "advance" during camp or change clothes or shower, but still have a lot of fun. I see nothing wrong with that, although I explain to them that they are responsible for thier actions and will bear the consequences. I would rather see these boys at a scout camp and staying involved with the troop than not. I always try to remember that it is not all about advancement. As for the knife purchases, our council camp has a requirement that the boy must show his toten' chip to purchase one. Take the chip away, let the camp trading post know it is gone, hold the knives until the parents come, and that may be that. I wish you luck as it appears this boy needs scouts more than scouts needs him.

Our troop has each patrol make them. We went to summer camp last week and soome of the patrols had no flags (sigh!). I, as committee QM, brought along an old white bedsheet and markers. The scouts provided the imagination and design, which made for some good patrol flags. A great patrol building project. Never buy them!! We have old patrol flags from the years in our troop room - reminders of some very creative boys and provides a lot of inspiration for the younger boys.(This message has been edited by NIscouter)

I just read today a column by Randy Cohen called "On Ethics". He noted Thomas Jefferson felt that airing our thoughts allowed us to discover thier flaws and our own fatulities. This forum gives us the opportunity to air our ideas and see if they are worthy and supportable. I enjoy the open debate and discourse of most of the posters, although some seem to be curmudgeons :>

After reading Students' post on the use of uniforms (and one on changing the subject line in a reply), it got me to thinking. I have a set of clothes, or "uniform", that I wear to work only. When I get home, I change into my relaxation "uniform". This allows me to prepare for and be in the proper state of mind when I go to work and when I return home. When I played Rugby, putting on the jersey, shorts, and the act of tying up those calf socks under my knees, got me into the Rugby playing mind set. When I coach baseball I put my ball cap on and "change" into my coaching mode. I feel the Scout uniform does the same thing. I put it on and "change "into my scouter mode. This, to me, is the most important part of the uniform method. It pulls the kids out of the daily living "uniform" (t-shirt and jeans)with all its' baggage and helps them change into the Boy Scout mode and mindset. Sports use this method, the military uses it; shoot, so do the teen-agers with the "in" fashions. You cannot be a good leader without understanding the power the uniform has in instilling the Scout spirit into the boy and transforming him mentally into a scout. As Student noted, the uniform represents all that is right about scouts. A requirement to be a Boy Scout? No. A powerful tool to help instill the values of scouting and scout spirit into the boy and "change" him into a scout? Yes.(This message has been edited by NIscouter)

Sorry again on the double post - this mouse pad is dring me nuts!(This message has been edited by NIscouter)

Cheffy - You should look into staying either in the Hoosier National Forest Area or, my favorite, in or near the most beautiful college campus in the USA, Indiana University (Bloomington) :> There is the Morgan Monroe State Park north of Bloomington on SR 37, probably a good place for the group but about 1.5 hours past your desired point. Unfortunately, the only thing north of Indianapolis is corn. If you have a chance, go see Orangeville Rise, the Wesley Chapel Gulf (http://www.indianaoutfitters.com/Destinations/Hoosier_National/wesley.htm) or the other features associatged with the Lost River area, which is an excellent area for karst topography. I even got to see the Lost River reclaim its' banks as a student long ago - very cool.

My son took the rifle merit badge at summer camp. When I went to observe him, I was surprised to see the scouts sitting by tables with the guns sitting on wooden yokes! I remember having to do the prone and sitting positions, and no barrell assist! One thing that helped my son in his quest was laying off the caffinated drinks. Steadies the hand.

I thought I would reflect a bit on my experience at camp. Sorry for the length, but this is a shorter version of my original :> We kept an adult in the campsite at all times (except for chow and flags) until the end of the week (see my earlier topic). Our "camp-only" SPL and ASPL, the regular PLs really earned thier strips and ran the show after a day or so of intense coaching. We were confident enough of these boys that during the final two days we left camp in the hands of the boy leaders for short periods of time. I expect our camp SPL to be the troop SPL in August, as his quiet leadership was readily accepted by all, allowing our campsite to get perfect scores on the campsite inspections the last two days. The boys had a lot of freedom, made thier own schedule, and most moved forward, both in advancement and in maturity. So did I. I have read and heard mountians of talk on the way one week at camp for a scout is like one year of a regular program - but no one had mentioned that it applies to the leaders as well. I found the week taught me quite a bit about the boys, how to be (and not be!)an effective adult leader,and how to assist, not supplement, the boy leaders. We developed a new adult leader method - the "tent" method. Whenever a boy(s) was doing something that pushed our parent buttons but in reality was OK for a scout and did not appear to be a safety hazard, we moved our seats a bit farther behind the tent to avoid watching them! Except for the afternoon heat in Southern MI it was a great camp experience! This is the type of continuing "training" I have been looking for. The three other leaders and myself found time to discuss many issues in and out of scouts, pulling us closer together as a team, and providing us a better understanding of each other. My SM, whom I am ashamed to say I have not been too kind to in this forum, proved to be quite different than I had thought. Watching some of the other SMs around camp (who bird-dogged thier scouts at all time), our SMs openness to our suggestions, and the way our SM worked through some issues, both his and the boys, left me with confidence in his leadership and his vision for our troop. I realized our troop is actually aimed in the right direction.

Welcome to the forum. Pull up a log and join in the fun. There is a wealth of knoweldge in here and the real fun is sorting the wheat from the chaff!

Brief thread hijack - but basically in same area I thought I would put in a positive note about our National Scout Supply group. I was in need of the scoutmasters handbook for summer camp this week (Woodbadge ticket item, lots of time at camp). I checked at the council and was told to call National, I probably would get it sooner. Called Friday afternoon, had a very nice lady help me out. I asked about trying to get it to me in 4 days, not the 7 to 10 working days by any means other than paying $10 more for an $11.59 "book". She checked and found the UPS ground would get it to me. She noted on the packing slip that it should go ground only and needed by Wednesday. Wednesday I went home and found it on my doorstep, but with a UPS Overnight sticker?? Thought I was going to be charged extra, but they did it without additional cost. I must say, great customer service, and cheaper than my council charged! And sorry for the long rant and rave Return to the current thread topic :>

I am getting ready to go with our troop to summer camp on Sunday. We have, due to an incident a few years ago, decided to keep an adult in the camp at all times, except for meals, ect. Anyone else have this situationor any thought on the issue? And anyone know how to beat 90+ degree heat and humidity if I have to stay in camp and not go to the waterfront :>

At summer camp we request our boys use the buddy system as much as possible - if you are going to a merit badge area that no one else is attending, go with your buddy as far as possible and pick him up again at the end. As for adults, we have had a few "bad" experiences with scouts in our campsite with no adult supervision, but try to do it elsewhere if possible.

Eamonn - I too see the lack of offerings for older scouts as a problem, as scouters have since the beginning. I am, as part of my ticket for WB, in the process of setting up a Venturing Patrol in our troop. I sometimes wonder if I will move from this endevour to setting up a Venture Crew in a few years. The Venture program is, in my mind, a bit too loose in structure and does not appear to focus enough on the charactor side (maybe part of my ignorance of crews) No matter, it is important to have something for the older scouts to be excited about. I like the idea of retaining the older scouts in a troop, as thier experience and memories of the past is an important component of building a lagacy for a strong troop. I am playing around with the concept that a Venture Patrol could be a "ad-hoc" patrol for the older boys, pulling them to plan and participate every other month in more challanging activities, and rejoining the troop on the other months to impart leadership and fire up the younger scouts with tales of adventure :> I do share your concern as to the potential, in your situation, to drain the district troops of older scouts and cause problems with these troops. But, as an old saying goes, if you're not making waves, you're not underway. Me, I'm halfway across the ocean!

Ed - are you saying the uniform method is the most misunderstood method and as such should be removed? I was not sure how the statement related to this thread

CNY, I agree that the patrol method appears to be the most misunderstood method. The Patrol method to me is the central thread, or you could say the foundation, that connects all of the other methods. The Patrolis the basis to implement the other methods. The patrol gives the scouts a sense of belonging and pride, and allows for the other methods of scouting to be used/advanced without the scouts feeling isolated or an odd man out (as in wearing a unifrom). I have said this before and probably will again, but I believe using the patrol as the "frame of reference" is an excellent tool to allow a troop to meet the aims and use the methods of scouting.

Eamonn, I should have clairified a bit. You are 100% right that Wood Badge is the advanced scouter training. But what then? My thinking was along the lines of some of the certifications outside of scouts I have obtained. The best certs are the ones that require you to take continuing education every year. I do see RT as the CE for scouting, but some things are better taught in different forums, such as the University of Scouting offers. I think an advanced outdoors course would be great, as I am always amazed how little I know just when I start thinking I am getting good at it. Hmm, maybe this is the point to spin off on training topics???

The replies on this thread have given me a lot to think about. I also see ample room for myself to improve (as always :>)such as roundtable attendance. RT attendance may be a great way to start with our group. I do think that even experienced scouters need some sort of training or updating every now and then. Being a trainer is a de facto way to do this, but there is no reason that an advanced scouter training could not be developed.

acco40 - I really was looking for some guidelines for some of our current leaders in my troop. We have some of the leaders who were trained 4 to 6 years ago and it shows, although the inability to read and review program-related material (like SM handbk) may be part of it. I was looking for some supporting reasons/info to try to get these guys updated on their training. My problem in our troop seems to be having more training than most :>>

I wanted to get some feedback on how often a leader should be "trained", or retrained for a lack of a better phrase. I asked our district training coordinator and he indicated once every two years or so. Some of the adults I talk with seem to think that once you have attended training, no more is ever needed. I myself think that once every two or three years is a good idea, with the exception of the new leader training.

CNYscouter - I feel your pain! My troop currently has a SM who is not interested in following the BSA program or learning anything more on the methods of scouting. I hear complaints from the SM, ASMs and MCs about how the boys don't do this or that, and as you relate, I wish (and sometimes comment) they would use the SM handbook or try applying the methods of scouting. I think BW has it right, you (and I) need to continue to learn about program/methods, be ready to support our troop as needed, and continue to champion the use of the scouting program/methods to address the problems that crop up. Now how do do this on my alloted one hour a week?? :>>

I found an interesting way this feature acts when you have no squelch list. The "unsquelch" option is displyed on each thread. If you use this option, it changes to "squelch" until you go to the next page on a multi-page thread such as this one, when it changes back to "unsquelch". I guess I should have realized that would happen :>> (This message has been edited by NIscouter)