Basementdweller

From what was said the council or district would be better off with no NYLT training verse this one

So I got a phone call from a scouter who is now involved with trail life last night. It was a recruiting call.... Very enlightening. I heard he left and was disappointed in him and I believed he left because of the homosexual youth issue. Well in an hour conversation last night his issue is with the BSA and how top heavy and unresponsive it has become. He cited our scout execs $300K a year salary and the cost of maintaining summer camps. then our dysfunctional district and how we have become the dumping ground for DE's they want to force to quit. He has lost faith in the BSA paid leadership's ability to look out for the boys best interest. He left very specifically over the Summit Cost and the membership fee increase. While I still view the Trail Life crew just as I view the American Heritage group, as a bunch of bible thumping hypocrites, speaking with him was good. I now understand why he left and agree with most of his points. I disagree with the initial reason the organization was created and may never be able to get passed it. It was good speaking with him again.

National registration is $24 Boys life is $12 Beyond that our unit charges $1 per week, Covers merit badges, rank advancement youth training and the other sundry expenses that seem to crop up including the dog that ate the troop flag. Campouts.......Basic food cost $3 per meal per boy so $15 for the weekend, then if there is a campground, cabin or activity expense then that is added on. Our most expensive trip was $65 which included a Cabin, Snow Tube rental and gas for the 250 mile round trip drive. Summer camp for us is $210.

Generally speaking The quality of the instruction is low. Participation equals completion in many cases. Group size is too high and many are run for council profit. I watched a group of young men earn all three citizenship merit badges on a saturday morning. I watched a group of 11 year olds earn personal finance that afternoon at one of these. My guys go to specialty events, Atomic Energy, Sailboating, robotics or Aviation....But they are not pow wows or universities. So you have to ask yourself, Is the merit badge just another hurtle on your scouts way to eagle or is a scouting experience to be savored. Remember many scouts find a hobby or even a vocational interest through the merit badge program.

Free market.......... The boys and families don't want Citizenship, Religion, Duty or Responsibility in their lives. They want face book candy crush and ipads for immediate gratification......... So maybe I will see the end of the BSA in my life time....... Maybe that white elephant in West Virginia will kill it. $250 for 4 days at the summit.....really.......might be small potatos for some folks but that is 25% more than I pay for 6 days of summer camp.

That is why the CC and SM need to be on the same page and actually talk. Sure he can have his SMC but the CC could deny the BOR based on a SM recommendation to do so

Nope, Just got ripped up one side and down the other by a mom for an hour yesterday.....I was trapped at a CO function so I could not simply hang up the phone or walk away from her. I am not gonna do it again. She was out of line and I do not have to put up with it. Her son is very new to scouting and the troop, he has yet to camp with us and has missed 1/3 of the meetings...... Brew, her scout isn't ready, He will be some day but that day is not today.

Another example..... A neighboring District runs a Junior Leadership council day.......5 years ago it was Free, 3 years ago it was $5, Just went to register my APL's and sub PL, SPL leadership. It is now $25 a head...... Why is that? Council Greed, my friend that is what it is.......,

So another OP asking a question with not enough info.... Papa, your response is the exact same one I would have given...... Or I could have given one like "sure my Scout camp has a fantastic Webelos Program and we are in Anchorage Alaska........" If this is her council they havent updated their website for the coming season http://www.bsa-selacouncil.org/event/webelos-adventure-camp/1334846

Don't apologize for me..... Scouting is a horrible shadow of what it once was......I am not even speaking of my time in scouting as the sun had already began to set on my time.........Fricken millennial Parents......Every body is special, deserves a title, a Trophy or a pat on the back for not crying because they didn't receive the Pink Elephant Petting Merit badge, even though he wasn't in attendance. Helicopter parents........Cub leaders who don't understand or won't understand the intent of the boy scout program Weak poorly trained Adult Leaders whether they gate keep or the ones that Participation equals completion bunch......Grow a spine, follow the guidelines for safety and advancement. Or the Other Adults that think Boy Scouting is a Family outdoor adventure club.... So we have a mom here who is going to start meddling in the troop.......Just like she did in Tiger Cubs push her scout to the head of the line.... My Troop has grown and I am very sure it was not a good thing.....I am dealing with a few moms and grandmothers now....whose scout joined our unit less than 2 months ago and think they should be SPL, PL or even God for that matter. So NO, I don't have any sympathy and a complete understanding of this MOM....... So Guys, just curious here, In her scouts Football team.....How far would a phone call to the coach go to make her son Team Captain????? NO WHERE....... Ya, I am grumpy this morning........After spending an hour receiving abuse from a mom not unlike this yesterday......Our conversation ended with "No, I will not appoint your scout to any position and NO I will not assign him a project, His SPL or PL will assign him the position. Furthermore YOU are not to speak to the SPL, your scout will need to ask him for an assignment and If I hear of you speaking to the SPL on your scouts behalf, your scout will be asked to leave our unit." If I deal with this mom again on this subject before the end of the week I think her scout will be asked to leave.

Just as Rick is making assumptions. So are you Pack. Not every 14 year old Eagle scout spends the next 4 years giving back his unit, just as in the same manner every 17 9/10 year old Eagle spent the previous 12 years enjoying scouting.

Ahhhh, Pack the slippery slope and games begin. Your right, a boy can request and SMC for any or no Reason. The games being played by all parties....... That is why our units expectation is communicated clearly up front....If you want to advance, well you need to at least attend regularly.......

On no another parent trying to make sure her boy gets a POR so he can make eagle by the time he is 12. SO OP what is your position in the troop??? OH you don't have one......then butt the heck out. Stop trying to work the system.... Let your son enjoy his scouting experience, Let him grow into a leadership position. BTW... The SPL and PL's are elected the rest of the positions are appointed by the SPL and PL's. The SM shouldn't be doing it.

Unfortunately, my experience with SMs as both a youth and adult is of ignorance and ego as described by Myboy. There's a book--a few, actually--with 90% of this stuff in it. My opinion in my troop is always the minority and written off as "my way or highway" because I am literally the only person who has ready any of these books. The SM handbook, the PL and SPL HB, the Guide to Adv., and the Guide to SS, etc. Every one of these threads is situational, and this SM is ignorant--willfully or inadvertently, it doesn't matter--and his position is wrong. I don't care about his intentions, I don't care about his heart: He's wrong. He is either wrong on purpose, or he is wrong because he is no good at his job, whichever, same difference. If he's wrong because he's unfamiliar with the GtA, his heart isn't in it. If he's wrong because he refuses to abide by the GtA, his heart isn't in it. Next week someone might come around to pan their SM and if they're wrong and the SM is right I'll be right there by the SM. But in this situation, taking Myboy at face, the SM is a heel. We don't know if it was signed off in his book or troopmaster......All we have is the OP saying he held a position.....

You guys don't like my Troops attendance policy....... Bottom line here is the OP's scout would not be granted a SMC or BOR because he does not meet our definition of active. Which is 50% of meetings and activities for scouts and 80% for youth leaders......... It is reasonable, the scouts are aware of it as it is posted in our Troops handbook and on our website. Every time we have this discussion on this board I think less and less of Eagle........as blake said it has become a participation award.

No need to defend my sentinel..... I wonder what your scouting linage has to do with the discussion. I am an Eagle scout and OA member as well I have held every position in a Cub Pack except COR and Every Position in a troop but CC and COR. District Day Camp Program Director as well....... So what??? I have been on the receiving end of the ugly of scouting.......From the unit and district level. It is ugly and mean and folks hold a grudge and will seek vendetta upon everything your involved with in scouting. If your son remains in scouting after such an appeal.....there will always be whispering behind his back about his Eagle..... Just like the Boy who was at Jamboree when his Eagle project was completed by his parents.....or the SM's Son who Dad signed all his merit badge cards.....Or the Boy whose dad bought his Eagle. on and on..

My scouts were treated like that in training, I would take the entire bunch to the SE and have them make statements.... The course director needs fired and possibly some jail time

So you don't think that it is going to affect the court of honor.....Sure it will. A half hearted or even pointed Scoutmaster speech. Heck he might not even attend if it got that ugly. To be completely honest.....As SM and I thought a lad did not complete the check list.....and was over ruled....I wouldn't attend at all. That message is important for the lad.......The guy that mentored me all these years doesn't think I earned it. Maybe I didn't....

I hope your talking about Cub scouts

and for crying out loud..... Don't rush to follow your son to the troop, let him have a year or so of no dad hanging around. As pointed out in many many thread....The absolute worst Boy Scout leaders are the newly crossed over Cub Scout leaders.

Why are WE visiting the Troop. May you should stay in the car and let your son go and evaluate the meeting. After all it is his scouting experience not yours.......Regardless of his decision you should support him

Let me begin by saying the BSA is irrevocably broken from a admin professional stand point. So exactly what am I paying for????? The only thing I am not required to do for my unit is enter new applications. So explain to me why we are paying $1.3 million dollars in salaries to Staff in my council. Do nothing DE's, who don't provide the services that the FOS presenter say they do......No boy talks, no flyers, no uniforms and books for those in need, no improvements to the camps...... No you won't be receiving any money from me for friends of scouting. It is purely about Fund Our Salary....... not about the boys.

One side of the story here. So Honestly.......how many meeting does he make a month???? How many campout has he made in the last year???? My Troop has an attendance policy of 50% for meetings and outing for scouts and 80% for youth leadership. Active is a unit policy...That might be what his beef is Hard to give advice...... Go a head and do an end around and go to the District Advancement chair and see how it affects his ECOH. If your going to have that conversation with the DAC, how about not making it about your son, but about a SM who is not following Advancement guidelines and the district should look at it. You understand this is going to get real ugly if you just go stomping around

Probably so..... But If my boy was in tears over being called names......... I would get to the bottom as to why...... If that included an evaluation by a professional than so be it..... I would get to the bottom of why....... I have not met the 14 year old that crys at being called names........of course I deal mostly with kids in the hood who go to low scoring public schools and they receive and give verbal abuse on a daily basis.

I have news for you.....Most of my boys are from broken homes, mom raising them, dad absent or grand parents raising abandon grand kids. While they have challenges they have made the correct choices to this point.