Basementdweller

one church van and a pick up with a cap is enough room for two patrols.

The story changed significantly from its initial telling..... I could careless......Just interesting how the story changed. I find it interesting that the boys want to be part of a ceremony team and something they have not experienced first hand. So how do the boys know they want to join the ceremony team???? whose idea is that???? probably not the boys. So explain to me again how unit level call out ceremonies are low cost, So what happens if every troop in the district want a unit specific ceremony????? the ceremony team will be busy for month and cost them a bunch of time and money for fuel. I drove the boys 4 hours round trip to a camporee for their ceremony. My choice. I didn't cause a big stink because the local chapter didn't offer a call out ceremony, just found a way to provide my boys a program.........Much different than raising a ruckus to get my way. I believe his request is out of line. I am sorry my complaining about rich folks is bothering you......You guys are worried about paying for that trip to glacier national park and you next nice new SUV......I am just worried about collecting $10 for next weeks campout and adding tenting for the new scouts.... Would you like to buy a nice Sub????? they are $5.

Here is from the first post in the thread MB says 'We have a few Scouts who could not make our District's tap out this year (mandatory band thing). They are not going to summer camp this year because they are doing NT and it is too expensive for them to do both. District is not doing any unit-based tap outs but the boys really don't want to miss out on the tap out ceremony." Band, football, wrestling and life happen, I contend the boys could attend summer camp tap out night or another districts tap out ceremony instead of holding a unit specific tap out ceremony and I don't disagree with the Chapter Adult advisor at not wanting to set a precident for doing it at a unit level. It was never intended to be unit based. The service is offered by the lodge, I am sorry it doesn't fit your youths schedule. What happens if the ordeal doesn't fit their schedule??? gonna do a unit level ordeal????

Patrol method and patrols. Watching the boys, they are just as happy playing with a hacky sack as they are a $60 football. some of the best campouts we have had were under plastic sheets instead of $200 tents. Troop trailers full of gear they might need. The boys might need to be left alone to run their program.

Swimming is something I can deal with and have.....Most urban youth can't swim......For a buck a head I can get them to the park and recs pool on thursday night for swimming lessons. Gotten three different boys ready to pass their swimming test this summer for first class.......The aquatics guy last year was surprised when they came back to him after passing the test to sign their books......I told them that I didn't administer the test and he should sign it. Oh I am sure it wasn't on purpose as the RT is one of the rich white guys...... In their world of troop buses and trailers, money to take the boys 600 miles and spending $150 a head on a long weekend isn't a problem. I would feel the same about rich purple guys......these fellow are white and wealthy..... Not sure how a trip to the Yorktown helps with patrol spirit or youth leadership.

So how can adults take Baden Powel's vision and get it all mucked up??? With scout trailers, big trips, country club sit down dinners for COH's, in fighting about adult sexuality. It is about the boys learning to plan, lead and accomplish independent of adults.....

While the forum has been down I have been wondering the web... I gotta say wow is their some screwed up scouting out there. Giant scout Trailers, High cost high adventure, Eagle COH sit down dinners, SM's buying their scouts rifles for eagle gifts...... So how can adults take something as simple as a group of 12 year olds hanging out together and learning woodcraft into a three ring circus????? Maybe I am missing something, But it is the boys program, and the boys can learn leadership skills just as well 15 minutes from home as 12 hours....

People people people...... I asked my PLC their thoughts on it....... To a man they didn't care one way or the other........ THE BOYS ACTIVE IN THE PROGRAM DON'T CARE. This is just more adult generated drama. So why not start a BPSA group......Because the only reason the BSA still exists .......The EAGLE. That is the huge reason this is such an issue. Our council produced nearly 400 eagles last year......a ridiculously high number.

It is spring here in the northern Hemisphere...... So why in the world would anyone want to sleep in a cabin in anything other than zero degree weather??????? If the adults need beds to sleep on fine..... Pitch yourself about 5 tents outside and let the webelos sleep in those....... Probably save yourself a bunch of money in the process. In those little tiny sheds putting up blankets and such is ridiculous. Just send the boys outside when you guys need to change and you step outside when they want to change. bunk boys with their dads.....problem solved.

sqyire while you are trying to be helpful you are undercutting the program. If you want to be of help.......here is what ya do. You go to your local wally world or sewing emporium and buy 20 needles, the kind you sew by hand with. then you teach the boys how to sew their own patches on during the SM portion of the meeting or better yet you teach the SPL to do it and have him do the instruction...... Boy Scouts are supposed to do for themselves.........The old give a man a fish or teach him to fish proverb. Velcro is lazy.....hand sewing the patches on gives the boy half a dozen opputunities to improve.

I took my scouts who were elected to a neighboring districts camporee for call out. There ordeal is in a couple of weeks. I think letting your son attend without you was an excellent choice. Just attend and let it happen......The ordeal is a shadow of itself, like many things in scouting, but it still has the spirit of the event.

You guys should but as much effort into your local program as you do virtual scouting and debating here....... Your program would be stellar.

Ya MB whose on the adult power trip. I think your stepping way over the line on this..... So far we have three of us telling you don't do it. Your taking a council/district level thing and bringing it to the troop level......It was not intended to be that way...... They way I view the OA is the next step in scouting for the youth. They are beginning to spread their wings and experience life beyond the microsociety of the troop. I am excited for my boys...All of them have registered for the Ordeal, I am going to drive them out friday night and bring them back sunday morning.

Wifes response was why are you trying to compete with the rich folks a crossed the beltway??? Guess I felt put in my place by the rich white boys at roundtable. I flat didn't like it and I think I will let the round table commisioner know it.

First class and 14 years old is the local requirement to attend. Looking at neighboring councils it seems to be the standard.

Seriously, if I am going to spend the big bucks and go to the alps to ski, the absolutely last thing I want is to be responsible for the troop. I go on vacation to be away from it, not bring it with me.

guess I need to just be happy with the White Castle of scouting programs and not aspire to the Brown Derby scout program.

We canoe every summer.....it works out to 25 bucks a boat so $15 per scout with a stop for ice cream on the way home and we make it a day outing instead of a weekend trip to save cost...... So why the non-high adventure base big trips???????

So to your points: - Tried all other Districts and even other councils locally, no one is having a tap out that we can make. - Have talked with the Lodge chief (and Chapter Advisor) until I was blue in the face and he simply says "tough luck". So much for working with adults. - Checked with the youth lead in the Lodge and he is fine with doing a cermony for us, the ADULT won't let him. Again, adults getting in the way. - Checked with the Lodge Advisor (who runs many chapters) and he said the Chapter Advisor was being silly and that they should do the ceremony for us. - Tap out teams come from units like mine all the time and compete locally, regionally and nationally. Many times they put on their own unit's events, so this is nothing our of the ordinary. - The solution I landed on was 1) build a good relationship with the Lodge Advisor, 2) am building a tap out team to compete nationally, 3) have increased interest in the OA within my unit, 4) have increased the interest of the Arrowmen in my unit to become more involved in the OA, 5) have further earned the respect of my unit by sticking up for the boys when I felt we were right. So in the end I accomplished what was right for the boys AND had teh boys involved in the process. Not sure what you mean by "helicopter scouting" but if that is what I did I will take that any day over sitting on my butt and letting some adult on a power trip take a Scouting memory away from my boys. So what your saying is the OA tap out ceremony is less important than what ever else is scheduled??????? Seems to me if it really mattered to the scouts they would adjust their schedule since you already told them they were elected. When the OA folks handed me the pink sheet from our election, they told me the results were to be kept secret. Yes helicopter scouting.......blades beating smothering the scouts on their journey. Hovering directly over them micromanaging their scouting careers.........Making sure they have cub scout style advancement ceremonies........ So is your Son one of the boys missing the tap out???????

The trips to the high adventure bases I expected..... But renting a house on the outer banks and surf fishing for a week as a troop????? Smokey mountains complete with laser tag and go cart racing????? Even Gettysburg to do the battlefield hikes????? I sat there just mystified......... I would love the boys to be able to raise all of the money for the entire program year........I don't have big money to spout of pocket to spend on the initial fees........Heck we can't even sell bottled water at the 4th of July fireworks celebration and parade without a $500 vendor permit. In the past few years we sell popcorn, candy bars and flower bulbs pretty successfully.

Roundtable this evening......they discussed Big Trips....... Our troop has never ventured more than 3 hours from home..... Now we are in Ohio.....Troops have taken trips to Maine, Glacier National park, Uss Yorktown......Philmont, northern tier and Seabase..........Big Trips...... I remember reading about a troop jumping on airplanes and going to valley forge over a long weekend...... Lets just say that I couldn't afford what they were talking about.......... So these big trips.....are they the boys idea or adults........ Jealous maybe..... So how typical is this??????

If the group is amazing the forget about it...... work the with the new CM and make sure she doesn't repeat her predecessors mistakes.

I took my scouts that got elected to another districts spring camporee to get tapped out last weekend......Our district did not have a spring camporee and our chapter did not hold a tap out..... Checked with the lodge chief and he said it would be fine...... My point is this ain't cub scouting..... let the boys run the program even the lodge....... If you feel compelled become your chapter adult advisor and fix it from within......Not just do a ceremony for your boys as an outsider. Helicopter scouting at its finest.

Propane for car camping and Isobutane for backpacking are the two best choices. White gas is better for cold weather camping... but it leaks, had hiking partners ruin most of their food early in the trip......Look at the AT shelters most have burnt floors from incident like dan describes....the circle burns......no matter how careful I am I always smell like white gas after using it. Locally camps have policies that govern these much in the same way they govern fixed blade knives. It must be stored in the flammable storage shed which is not conveniently located to anything. I have a soto iso stove that has a pressure regulator and does a fantastic job well below freezing. Never has a problem getting fuel.....heck even walmart carries it now. If the troop owns them already I would continue to use them but if acquiring new I would purchase propane or iso.

Ya, boy shows up for an event and hasn't paid to attend....Nope, boy and parent get sent home..... Remember every scout leader from this point forward will have to deal with the expectation you set now in cubs Dues are a waste of time........ Have the parents pay a den craft fee once a year.....after the first year you have a pretty good idea what ya spent. If it is $20 or $50 each per year so be it, your not chasing parents down monthly or weekly for money..