Basementdweller

Well I spoke with him probably 3 times a day about things he missed or met with him after the spl meeting so he could regurgitate what was said or asked...I asked him 4 times a day about fire chart and getting the troop flag up.... So he knew he wasn't doing the job.....and frankly at the end of the week he was simply done with it.

At summer camp last week...... We had lightening every day multiple storms per day and several very severe during the night. There is no indoor shelter at our camp save the dining hall...... All of the troops in camp sheltered in place, meaning under dining flys or in their tents. We even sat out some quarter to half dollar sized hail.....it was kinda cool watching it bounce off of the top of the tarp and tents. I would follow what ever the CD tells you to do.....If your worried about it.....Ask him very specific questions.

Never been to a camp that had a scout master lounge.....AC?????? I conducted business at our campsite picnic table...brought a hotspot with me. Car battery and solar panels all was good. The camp continues to improve.....No troops had Gators or golf carts this year...Food took a step backward.....CD and PD were both excellent..... SPL was being a knucklehead.

1. Jump into water over your head. Come to the surface and swim 100 feet, at least half of this using a backstroke. either he does it or he doesn't.......... Swimming isn't an area were Do your Best is good enough......It is a safety thing.....

Alex....I don't think that way......I never considered that she may view the BSA as a fundamentally flawed organization of law breakers. You are probably correct, she sees herself as doing a service by trying to get the Georgia PTA association to recommend that PTA/PTO don't charter Packs because of real or imagined tax liabilities.

Here is deleted #9 post Yesterday, 02:37 PM Originally posted by Pack18Alex View Post ...However, the Council, Pack, and CO all told you that it wasn't a problem. ... Herein lies the problem: The Council, the Pack, and the CO all told me is wasn't a problem, but none of them are qualified to tell me this, nor do they have any authority over my personal tax decisions as a volunteer. None of the people who complained are CPAs, tax lawyers, or any type of tax professional. When I find myself in a situation in which I have good reason to believe I have tax liability (i. e. I'm a bank signatory for a group that hasn't filed any taxes in seven years), I go get professional help. I don't care what the BSA says, the pack leader overheard at roundtable, or the PTA president read on the internet. The PTA president is a stay at home housewife, the pack leader works for a hardware company, and I have no idea who the BSA has on staff trying to tell me what to do. Taxes are a serious responsibility, so I got professional help. The tax professional I consulted for advice told me that I was liable for unpaid taxes and fines as a signatory on the bank account. He said I should get my name removed immediately. I started talking to the pack leaders in March. By June, they still kept telling me they hadn't replaced me as treasurer yet, and I might need to wait until the fall. So, I put my foot down and insisted that they get my name off that account if they had to put their own names on in the interim as signers while they searched for a more permanent replacement treasurer. The tax professional also told me that the IRS could levy approximately $5,000 to $7,000 in fines in our situation, going back all seven years. He advised me to quit as treasurer, and send the end of year pack financials to the PTA with a letter telling them my concerns and what I had found out in our consultation. The CPA said that at least I would be documenting that I tried to get the taxes filed correctly, and this might help me if the IRS investigated. I did exactly that. I sent a simple and polite email to the PTA with the end of year figures and my concerns, with documentation. By dinnertime, I had an angry call from the Council telling me that "everyone" up to the state level of the BSA and the PTA had read my email, they were all very upset, and I might have just "given the state PTA a reason to shut down all PTA sponsored packs statewide". Clearly, I had no idea that getting professional advice could cause problems statewide, nor is it even reasonable that such a thing should happen. The BSA is wrong to be offended that I got professional advice to cover my own liability in a tax mess I had no part in making, nor was I informed about when I took on the treasurer responsibility in good faith. I have lost a great deal of respect for them due to their behavior this spring. The BSA insisted to me in writing that it was the PTA's responsibility to file taxes on behalf of our pack. So, what sense does it make that they'd call my house angry because I gave the PTA the numbers they needed to file the taxes? GeorgiaMom

Here is the original post........ King Ding Dong kindly suggested that I approach my DE to discuss the idea of asking/requiring more Scout parents to step up in our pack. I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm afraid we are far past that. I have had a different situation this year with the BSA as treasurer that has greatly soured me on the organization as a whole. I have gone from an enthusiastic volunteer to a mom who just wants to do the best for her son. I will participate in the pack, but only to the extent I feel is appropriate. I am no longer a gung-ho, make the pack go mom. I would be interested to know if others have found themselves in similar situations with the BSA Councils. If the BSA Councils actually read any of these forums and take an interest in how their volunteers are doing, maybe take a long look in the mirror and reconsider how many BSA volunteers are treated. I was asked to be our pack treasurer for the school year just ended. In the process of trying to diligently do my job, I found out on my own that our pack had not filed any tax returns for their entire seven years of existence. The charter organization also had not included the pack finances in their 990 tax filings. When I tried to talk to the charter organization about it, they got angry and told me to go away. When I tried to talk to the pack leaders, they told me to keep my mouth shut about it (in more polite, but stern, language) because "we can't afford to offend the CO and lose our charter." I was told directly by our committee chair that: 1. I was offending him personally by even suggesting that he or the BSA would be involved in anything illegal. (how did I get from "hey leaders, I found out our taxes haven't been filed properly" to "hey leaders, y'all are all personally dishonest". ?) How can any treasurer bring up any financial issue caused by a previous leader if the current leader takes personal offense? 2. I was hurting the kids and the program by undermining the BSA. His tone is that anything the BSA does is golden, and if I think something is wrong, I must not be understanding it correctly. 3. There was no problem with no one having filed any taxes for the pack for the previous seven years. He said we would not be filing taxes for the current year either. If the IRS ever pursued it, he said "we will call on the Scouters at the council to address any IRS inquiries.". Um...did anyone ask *me* if I'm comfortable doing something illegal on our taxes and then having the Council defend me to the IRS? Um...hell no. Then, I got a call at my home from the Council. Not to help, but to tell me in no uncertain terms to quit pursuing the tax issue. They ranted for an hour, telling me that everyone all the way up to the state level of the BSA and the PTA (our charter organization) knew all about me and were all very angry. The Council rep (our DE) told me that the state PTA "hates the Scouts" and had been "looking for a reason to cancel all the charters". He said by trying to get the taxes filed, I was giving them the reason they needed, and I would be responsible for disbanding hundreds of packs and thousands of Scouts statewide if I didn't stop. I was shaking by the time I finally got off the phone. Without the cooperation of the pack, the Council, or the CO, I was unable to file the taxes, but I have personal responsibility to file the taxes as a signer on the bank account. So, I quit. I called my own CPA, confirmed that I did have personal liability to the IRS for the taxes not being filed as I was a signer on the bank account, just like I'd been telling the pack leaders for months, while they pooh poohed my concerns and told me to keep my mouth shut. I was right. I did what my CPA advised me to do to protect myself. I quit. I got my name removed from the bank account. The pack leaders kept kicking the can down the road telling me they couldn't replace me. I told them *they* could put their own names on the account as interim treasurer! I was leaving! I have lost so much respect for the Scouts this year. I feel completely thrown under the bus. I was concerned about my personal liability for a tax mess I had no part in making, and instead of getting help, I had the Council calling my house to tell me I "had to be more political". I don't give a crap about the politics between the BSA and the PTA. If they can't make a charter agreement that both sides understand and are willing to uphold, then I don't see how that's my personal problem. Are they all nuts? I barely have time to do the actual finances, much less deal with all the politics! Right now, the PTA insists that the BSA is supposed to file the tax returns. The BSA insists that the PTA is supposed to do it. Both of them expect the treasurer to just shut up and deal with the IRS if they ever come knocking. Wow! The only thing that keeps me in Scouts is the fact that I have an 8 year old who loves Scout events with his dad. This is a very special part of his relationship with his Daddy that I do not wish to spoil with all this adult drama. My son has no idea. I am trying to keep it together being in a pack with leaders who are pretty angry with me right now so I don't let this affect my son. Not fun at all. I could try another pack, but that would mean taking him away from his friends. I consider that a last resort. My take on the BSA after my experience is that they absolutely don't give a crap about the adult volunteers. They will run them into the ground, happily, as long as they rake in cash for our work. So, from now on, I will do the bare minimum I feel I should do as a parent, and hope the dozens of do-nothing parents in our pack will get a clue next year, step up, and do something. Yes, I am bitter too, KDD. And going to our Council offices and Scout Store doesn't help. It looks like the Taj Mahal. Why do the paid leaders of a volunteer run organization for children need a huge granite building that seems mostly empty and more appropriate for Fortune 500 CEOs? I can't help wondering how much of my little boy's hard earned popcorn sales went to pay for the execs plush offices, and how little went to actually do anything for the kids. A less ostentatious office would have a lot more credibility with me. So, all I can say, is don't go out on any personal limbs for the BSA. They do not have your back as a volunteer. Any other experiences or advice? Thanks for letting me vent. Georgia Mom Last edited by GeorgiaMom; 06-29-2013, 03:46 PM.

She obviously doesn't want to carry the guilt if she did end PTA/PTO sponsorship of packs and troops in Georgia. Too late now.......Honestly the BSA is better off without someone like her. She would have been a thorn in the side of what ever organization she would have been a part of.

Locally we have a shortage of CNC machinist, electricians and pipefitters. Eagle your forgetting expectations. The millenial generation come for a job interview and expect to dictate their employment conditions......Last young man that interviewed wanted a month of vacation and salary Equal to what a fellow who has 20 year experience makes. He also expected to negotiate his share of the health coverage.... When I graduated college I remember feeling happy I found a job.....even though it barely covered my living expenses and I lived on happy hour buffys for dinner for a number of years. Low wages and long hours were my expectation, Trades are an excellent way to make a living......Many are structured to train new employees, thru apprenticeships. But many of todays youth see them as dirty and frankly beneath them.

Under the auspice removes it from being an individual award....... So my scout is in his fourth year..........he has 96 nights of camping, 154 hours of community service...327 miles of hiking.....80 hours of swiming, sailing and canoeing.... All with his troop patrol, or at summer camp. Scout son has backpacked with me for since he could walk.....canoes, hiked and fished.......other than the merit badges and rank he could have had it already earned.

So you guys don't meet all summer??????? We are super active, The boys man the scout booth at the state and county fairs, flag retirement at the local VFW fair, we work the food pantry Wednsday and Saturday, The patrols hike twice a month and currently I have a patrol in my basement playing Black ops or some other shooter game......We have our July campout/canoe trip......then August we have a national park visit schedule and Our state senator is giving us a tour of the State capital. Scout son leave for jambo in a couple of weeks..... Summer is the best time for scouting. Oh I forgot fishing outing this weekend...........

Well, gotta laugh. SPL epic fail at summer camp. Missed breakfast twice.....didn't sign us up for flags or meal prayer, didn't sign us up for campfire skit.....Just had a meeting with him and mom and asked him if he provided any leadership....to my surprise he said no...mom smacked him in the back of the head.....bout spit my coffee all over the table. Mom wanted to know what happened....I asked scout to explain.....Well, I coached him all week about what needed to happen....He started with he slept thru breakfast....moms face got reder, he then mentioned not signing us up for skits, prayer and flags......We failed camp inspection because he did not put up the fire chart....The duty rosters were never completed...... For passing the camp inspection the PD gave entire troops small monkey fists. That really endeared him to the troop. Mom looked me dead in the eye and asked what I wanted to do......Well, since he did not provide leadership for the last 6 months it will not be recorded. He can run for election again in a couple of months.... The troop was mad enough I doubt he will get re elected.

congrats.....

Oh I am very sure your boy will be first class in a year and patrol leader at that point...... Boys advance as they advance... And making him do one pull up is adding requirements......he just needs to show improvement.....had a boy go from hanging limp to maybe a third the way to one.... it was an improvement. No more no less than is written

I bet you care more worthless weight than a groundcloth when backpacking. I buy the footprint for the tents I own....and have bought them for the troop tents.....Extra cost sure, but they are the correct size and boys don't treat them like sheets of plastic

So your good with a lad who refuses to get into the pool receiving Aquanaut because of a "disability". Well sorry I am not.....

My bad, been a couple of years, I was thinking is was required..... Well then as Eagle pointed out, Not earning is no big deal.....let him earn something else from the group.

I see absolutely no reason to go to the summit to the visitor center..... When I attended...Folks from our home council would drop by our campsite.....I remember getting browies and such from the visitors on a regular basis..... With your scout having to go to the visitor center to meet you, I see absolutely no reason to go and disrupt his day.

Do you actually know what GOBA is???? You only ride 50 miles a day maybe....You load all of your gear into trucks to be hauled to the next campsite......You don't prepare your meals......and it is in the plains area of ohio so it is nice and flat. So don't make it into a more than it is.....

So your TROOP did a 30 mile backpacking trip....How many were on the trip????? 20-30???? Have your read anything about back country ethics???? Overwhelming local resource and trails isn't something to be proud of......and very honestly you should never take a group more than 10 into most back country areas. Of course most know it all SM's don't do the due care......I am SCOUTMASTER, I am taking the boy into the woods, 30 folks at a campsite big enough for 10 is ok....We overwhelm the water resource, by our shear numbers damage the trail system and cheat others of the remote wilderness experience. Far as pizza at camporee's......I don't see anything wrong with it.......I did pizza night at summer camp because the PLC asked me to.... Remember it is the boys decision not yours. Khaliela....your troop seems very adult led.

Will he get in the pool at all????? If not he cannot or should not receive the award...Sorry. their is no accommodation large enough to allow for it. So, you need to start to work with him now to correct it. work from the bath tub to the small kiddy pool in the backyard.....to the kiddy pool at the local swim club to a smaller hotel style swimming pool, then to a regular sized pool. If he can't or refuses to complete Aquanaut then he doesn't deserve to earn the Arrow of Light.

This sounds like an adult idea...... 50 folks is a bad idea...Overwhelming local resources..... One of the reason we have such a poor reputation in outdoor community

Sure it is a rule.....It is a troop rule...which can be enforced at the troop level....... If a Troop adult isn't comfortable with the boys tenting alone, sure he can require them to tent together. My point is this is a ridiculous discussion.....

Congratulations for going off half cocked and destroying any chance of hundreds if not thousands of 6-11 year olds of enjoying scouting. If the PTA/PTO decide to end the program it is on your head. Karma.....

Never have I been part of a BSA organization that files a tax return..... Of course our treasury is at $229 currently......It will be exhausted when I go get the summer camp merit badges and the rank advancement in a couple of weeks. From your posts, the pack and troop will be much better off without your service. It is the adults that screw up scouting.