Basementdweller

That nice big fancy plan is all well and good, but I don't see how it helps ME recruit the next tiger den leader........Or encourage my scouts to attend day camp, resident camp....... It does not improve the quality of the council camps, they are very shabby. As a front line volunteer it doesn't help me one bit...... The folks in dallas can plan and plot and scheme all they want. It won't help me recruit any more boys.

Welll, were just gonna need to differ in opinion. We have many packs........ Don't use the Sports and Academic program Don't wear scout hats Don't wear neckerchiefs Don't do Career arrows Don't have Denners Don't have Den Chiefs Don't Camp Don't go to Day Camp Don't go to Resident Camp Don't participate in District events Don't participate in Council events Don't do community service Don't do conservation projects Don't do a cross over ceremony Don't hold the pinewood derby Don't hold the rain gutter regatta Ignore the Guide to safe scouting ON AND ON Ya know their program runs year after year......... It is their program......... I am guessing the original poster is a complaining parent. Maybe the complainer should volunteer as the assistant den leader and manage it. a scouter can only do so much, he cannot do the beads and that is ok. That is my point, I don't believe that it will cause a cascade that will end the world or the Pack. In a well run program, the boys get so many patches and bobbles another bead. Last month our boys received patches for a hike, a cub district event and a camp out. I think that is enough.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

It is an issue bigger than a round table can handle..... It is gonna take more than 1 hour to cover the topic, and it will take several months to get any buy in. Your missing the point seattle. We need to offer a product the hispanic community wants.

Speak from a position of experience here.......We have a many ethnic groups in our packs schools. The problem with the Hispanic population is the parents are always working. Most live in either extended family households or multiple family households. Most of the parents work multiple jobs often 7 days a week. It is tough for them to find time to bring the boys to scouting. Plus there is a fear in their community of the uniforms. Language is really a non-issue. Most of the hispanic's I have met speak passable english even it they pretend they don't understand. We have some show up to recruiting night but cannot get most of them to sign up. Our pack is made up of 63% not Caucasian. A final thought......We as white americans cannot possibly understand their culture and needs, their family dynamics and social needs are much different than ours. You might be further ahead starting a pure Hispanic pack and act as a consultant or assistant.

Stealing???????? You have got to be kidding me Guys this is just a silly plastic totem with beads hanging from them. Switch to decaff or somethin..... We don't know the entire story....maybe the pack can't afford them.....maybe there is not a scout shop close by.....maybe....maybe...maybe. Of all the planning and effort that goes into a den meeting that stupid little piece of plastic is irrelevant, I am amazed that this discussion has gone on this long.ne As a complaining parent I have one thing to say to you......STEP UP or SHUT UP. Think you can do a better job......Then prove it. I have used that approach a number of times and only once did the parent step up........And they did not do any better than the person they replaced. BTW we don't use those stupid white plastic totems.......We make our own out of wood biscuits, they look 100 x cooler and are a fantastic keep sake.

I will disagree that every BSA unit has a commissioner. I have never met a unit commissioner........EVER. I have first hand knowledge of a number of Packs and Troops that believe they can move when ever they please..... One goes thru a CO about every 18 months.

A new scout or scout family could careless or what the unit ratings are. They care if the boys are having fun, it is safe, no sexual preditors around and the group is active. Besides who cares what anyone else thinks of your unit. I heard some comments about my cubs at a council event.....ya know who cares. Sure they were throwing snowballs and getting wild..... OMG they were having fun on council property. red green purple......who cares, probably the same guys worried about the alumni knot........ I got more important things to worry about like the pending pinewood derby and Blue and Gold banquet entertainment.........

For Pack meetings I bought bright orange close out plastic cups and plates for our Pack to use for snacks. I have two totes of them we take to our pack meeting. I got them at walmart they were on close out and they ended up being a dime a piece. We had our christmas party last week......we did not have a full bag of trash, even with the christmas gift exchange.......

Boys will come and boys will go. I know every boy deserves and needs scouting. I know it is difficult for parents find......time, energy, money and interest in scouting. More often than not it is the Parent that quite scouting not the boy. I have lost sleep and spent countless hours chasing after wayward scouts. Your efforts are noble, I would spend the effort on the boys who ARE active in your den. Remember they and their parents want them at the meeting, concentrate on them.

Weed has entered into a period of acceptance, lets face it I have parents that are current users whose parents were users during the early 70's and I am afraid that some of my current scouts will make that choice. I am sure esctacy will be that way someday, but not right now. I am sure a drug company could pick it up and research what it can do......but I doubt there will ever be ecstacy dispensaries like the medical mary jane dispensary we currently see popping up. It would probably need a prescription.

I wear my uniform 5 or 6 days a week, so I wear out or they start to look ratty, about two a year. My uniform is plain except for the unit number, council strip, world scouting crest and position patch. Why do you need or want to wear all those do dads??? but if it floats your boat then have at it. kinda like all those guys who wear their boyhood OA flaps as an adult.

Why not weed is now medicine and can be purchased in stores. I don't support drug abuse, But why not legalize it, tax it, put in rehab programs financed by the tax on users. That would help with some of the illicit activity surrounding this stuff.

Scoutfish.....ya know your not supposed to burn your trash. Supporting links following. http://www.michigan.gov/documents/deq/deq-ess-caap-micampfirecard_312506_7.pdf http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/htmlpubs/htm04232327/index.htm http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=95810 http://leavenotracecommunity.blogspot.com/2010/12/burning-trash.html I think it is a scream that they Pack won't change. Oh well I was gonna say it was none of my business, but in reality it is......So goes one of us, so goes all of us. How many times have we heard about those terrible scouts????? More than I care too. I hope you change your practices so it does not reflect on the rest of scouting. Btw, every family in our pack is responsible for their personal mess gear. and each den is assigned clean up of kitchen gear after the meal. We can prepare and clean up for a meal in less than an hour for 60 people. I would keep working on them. BSA or walmart mess kits are a terrible idea, we recommend cheap large plastic bowls or recycled whip cream containers. Work great don't conduct heat, a mug and a spoon or fork. Just because you don't have a couple of leaders on board, doesn't make it right. I would not put it up for a vote. I did it in our pack, had a couple of moms bring their own paper plates and had to haul trash to the dumpster for the weekend. that ended it. (This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

there is no elephant in discussion. There is poor white trash, as much as their black partners. Being poor in the inner city does not discriminate based race or nationality. The people in my earlier discussions were all poor rich white folks. So if you were thinking racist thoughts, I was not.

Thx and I am glad it worked out for you.

Woodbadge ticket item???? Just curious how was it worded. a few boys participated in the program, I will say half of our pack earned 3 or more. Less than 10 earned all 5.

Ok How does one determine when a person needs help? I am obviously not qualified to determine this........... I have too much hatred, narcissism and a complete lack of compassion for anyone. So is our model of poor or needy changed?????? there is a large element of working poor, the guys and gals working at Mcdonald's, Big box stores and the warehouses. They need help no doubt in my mind. They often work multiple jobs because the stores and warehouses will not give them more than 20 hours because of health insurance.

Brent your assessment is fair enough. Scoutfish, you will probably have a good time and learn a bunch, the reason I believe you will is because you don't have a very long history in scouting. I had been involved too deeply for too long before I took the course. Heck I helped with the NYLT a couple of times.

Let me see better scouter........ I became cubmaster in feb last year after previous CM quit Since then, We have doubled the size of the pack, doubled the size of the leadership, We had 80% participation in Day and resident camp, developed a Pack budget, developed scout accounts, developed meaningful award ceremonies, We quadrupled our popcorn sales. Advancement for the year looks pretty good we have 14% of your scouts already receiving their current rank. I anticipate 80-90% by the Feb Blue and gold. We have lost a number of scouts, despite calls and reaching out to the parents and youth the appear to be gone. oh well. I could go on and make a list of personal scout accomplishments but to what end......... Woodbadge had zero to do with any of it. If anything woodbadge has soured my taste and view of scouting.

Whose decision is it to use or not use Awards????? In my book it should be a pack committee decision and not something a single den leader should make on their own. The immediate recognition totems is a waste, we hand them out and more than half the time that is the last time we will see them. Of course how many activity patches have you handed out for them to simpley end up in the trash. Cleaning up after a pack meeting I usually collect 5 or more patches and pins from the floor, I hang on to them and if the boy comes looking for them I will give them to them. Of course we recycle them.

You have a perfect understanding of your job. You are correct the boys will love being the finger guy for the meeting.

No offense taken, we are adults discussing an issue Interesting........... So what your saying is we need to perpetuate the cycle by supporting people who make bad decisions time after time. Buy a $1900 led lcd tv instead of one for $700, The new turbo diesel 4x4 pickup instead of a lesser gas 2x4. at 150,000 house instead of something lesser. As you can imagine, I don't shed a tear when people get their homes foreclosed on. They buy into what the mortgage lender told them and what HG TV said about trading houses up. I own my home, not renting it from the bank. Double payments instead of the new truck or TV. So how many months of expenses are you supposed to have in a Savings account or liquid???? 6 months or a year???? Do you meet the suggested guidelines? How many of you have more money on Credit cards than in savings account??????? Saving for retirement, are you????? Few of my friends are not. Scoutfish, sorry to hear about your dad. I live in the inner city, there is a park nearby. there is a group of African american young men who are down there nearly every day playing basketball. So your asking yourself what is out of ordinary here, they all are riding mobility chairs to and from the park. The city guy who mows and cleans up the trash said they are all on disability. Disability?????? I have some relatives who are disabled.......they are alcoholics. they get some sort of government aid and always take all of the left overs from the family get togethers. They always have their hands out. Far as jobs go, A lot of things go into getting a job out of college. We typically have 3-5 college interns working for us. Everyone of them had jobs lined up before graduation, of course all of them complained about what they were hired for......$50k for a new engineer is pretty good if you ask me. Yep, personal responsibility is another of my hot buttons.

I forgot to mention the twentysomethings with the Tattoos all over their face, Who is going to ever hire them for anything more than a warehouse or factory worker.

Please........................... I drive an old pickup truck. It is really hard to pull up to a house to deliver donated food and presents when the people inside have a nearly new pickup truck and the then latest home entertainment system in the living room. Not only that, the fact that they blatantly have multiple agencies sending aid. Please.............................. Yes today it was hard to load boxes of ham dinners into kia's and toyotas with temperary tags. I can't afford a new truck payment, hey wait a minute, if I can get thanksgiving and christmas dinner donated, and christmas for the kids, that might be a start on that truck payment. Did it ever occur to you that if they didn't have cell phones, some of their kids even had cell phones, or new cars they could afford Christmas dinner???? or gifts for their kids??????? Still driving that old truck. We own one TV, my cell phone is provided by my employer, My wife's van is 9 years old. I do have high speed internet and cable TV, luxuries in my book. I live very well within my means, I am saving for retirement and Saving for my children college. Gern go ahead and judge me, my life is an open book and I have nothing to hide or fear. I live my life with near zero regrets and giving back to my community. I will not disagree that there is an element of the poor that need help. It still ticks me off. We Americans are soft and lazy. Gone is the spirit that built and made this country great.

I stopped delivering food and gifts we have gathered for the needy. My first year doing it we pulled up to the first house, they had a big 4x4 truck in the drive way they had a widescreen TV and a big satellite dish in the back yard. They had a bunch of christmas presents under the tree already when we arrived, a huge amount, piled waist high. Seems they were expert at requesting help. Heck their furniture, TV and vehicles were newer and nicer than what I was driving. We looked at each other and dropped our food box and gifts and left. The next house we pulled in the driveway and another group was walking out the door from dropping of their assistance. We gave them our donation and left. They were laughing right after the door shut. I worked at the food pantry at the church today for the Christmas dinner hand out. Most of the "POOR" had cell phones, they were all on them and texting. we handed out 500 meals, I was helping load cars and traffic management, I was thanked 39 times total, yes I counted because last year, I didn't remember being thanked at all. sooooo, 8% of the people said thank you. there were a lot of really new cars getting loaded donated food...... I am dealing with the entitlement problem in our Pack currently. We have a number of new scouts who are on a council scholarship. The one scout dropped out because it was interfering with Karate lessons, say what, your poor, you shouldn't be able to afford karate lessons, new car, cell phone or air conditioning. The boys who were on scholarship did not participate in fund raising, why should they council has given them a free ride.