Basementdweller

Got a single mom with a neurotic kid who will be an eagle because it is a family tradition. Kid won't sleep with his patrol mates, but in a tent with mom on the outings. He will do it because it is too easy. I will say heck ya, it's easier now than then. The eagle projects I have seen get approved are terrible, either not enough work or things as simple as dad using his backhoe to do work for the CO.

Once, I asked him to leave after he wanted to do a uniform inspection. Another scouter whose perceived power has gone to their head.

the courses SPL had two early twenty something sons in the course. One of these "EAGLE SCOUTS" was in my patrol, it was very obvious mom earned their eagles for them. While I struggled writting my ticket as did most of my patrol members. one hour before the dead line for the final ticket turn in the SPL's son had not lifted a pen to begin writing his ticket. A staff member came into our Patrol site and dictated to him his Ticket, then the staff member hand carried it to turn it in point and it was approved first trip, well duh. I sat there and witnessed this first hand. This will probably let the CD and SPL figure out my course and who I am.......I probably will not get my beads because of this post. This puts me in one of two patrols and one of sixteen people.

While it worked for you...... Tradition is they are separate events and generally not a hot dog sort of event. Scoutfish, correct me if your wrong, but you weren't a Scout as a youth?????? Tradition might not be important to you but the youth deserve it. Soooooo, why don't you combine the entire year into a cub year family weekend.....the parents will love it you could hold the pinewood, rain gutter regatta, popcorn sale, blue and gold, graduation camp and all of the den meetings in a three day weekend. They will love the time it saves them in weekly den meetings, wear and tear on their cars. I am being silly of course, So what your saying is you short changed the boys in your Pack a Traditional Blue and Gold Banquet, and Traditional Pinewood Derby, because it was easier, hmmmmmm. Did you do your FOS presentation during the event????? I didn't volunteer to be a Scout leader because it was easy.......At any point if I think it isn't worth it or I start short cutting traditions to make my life easier, I will resign. (This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Two years ago I joined a Troop and Pack.......the Pack had less than 10 boys and the Troop had 4. The Pack was one den, four leaders who gossiped in the corner and one who ran the program. They had ZERO crossovers and retention was limited to the direct leaders sons. Outdoor program was our single biggest improvement. Had a graduation campout. then went to summer camp.....they had never gone before. The boys told their friends they had a blast.....resulting in a Pack of 24, actual dens and individual den leaders.....we went to summer camp again last year and the result was a pack of 60 boys and multiple dens at each rank. the troop has benefited from the cross overs, we had three last year and twelve this year, 9 at the blue and gold three will age out. If the pattern continues we could easily have 100 scouts fall of 2011

clem.......I remember that quote and feel that way about den graduation ceremony's. In a nutshell the only thing the scout has to do is exchange oxygen on a regular basis to qualify for it. Now the AOL ceremony is the cub equivalent of an Eagle court of honor. I see it as being worth of a ceremony. But wondering out loud here. Is this why we lose so many boys soon after crossover? They go from being big dog, lots of ceremony's, monthly pack meetings to next to nothing. Most COH's I have attended are pretty dry and lacking in ceremony.....Plus BS advancement lacks the little pins and do dads that they had become accustomed too.

A fine idea. We have so many floating around between the troop and crew, it never dawned on me invite scout alumni. If they are in he nesa then they are at least passingly interested in scouting and possibly a huge untapped pool of volunteers. this might just be what they need to become involved again. Applauding.......

no clue.......Tradition I suppose. Looking at the way the packs and troops I am involved with work....Both like to have the Webelos crossover now to integrate them into the troop before summer camp. We hold a graduation camp out at the end of may......Saturday noon we advance the boys and they spend the afternoon with their new den leader. Works well, the troop puts on stations boys have some fun. Plus we knock out the youth youth protection and parent guide stuff.

Got a great fortune out of a cookie the other Day " He who expects no gratitude shall never be disappointed." If a person volunteers, I expect them to do the job, get the training. AS OGE pointed out I expect them to treat each other and the scouts with dignity, courtesy and respect. Don't expect me to be your sons baby sitter, shrink, disciplinarian. No it is not ok to text me at 2am, or call or stop by my home unannounced.

As pointed out, if the boys haven't done the work then no ceremony....I don't care about tradition. But I would like to add, that the lack of the AOL and crossover ceremony does hurt the program. It is a motivator for the younger scouts. When we hand the Career arrow during the ceremony, the little guys eyes get big and they are really excited. We retell the history of the den.....it is a very nice ceremony

Moose, Follow the link from where the thread was spun from..... for some reason Beavahs spin link isn't exactly right Engineers post is on the bottom of page three in the thread. It is pretty easy to lob comments from the cheap seats and do nothing.....It is an entire different story to man up and do something about it.

GEEEZUS, So now engineer wants me to give up another week of vacation to take the boys to camp. Engineer why don't you step up and offer to lead the second or third week of boy scout resident camp instead of complaining about it. Get off the bench, stop complaining and do something about what you view as being wrong. Here is my camp schedule for this summer, now keep in mind I get three weeks of vacation from work. June Boy scout camp 1 week, Early July cub day camp 5 days, Late July Webelos resident camp 4 days, Early august Crew backpacking trip 1 week. I haven't included a family vacation in there anywhere. Not complaining just sayin thats all. Yes I have asked and have additional volunteers and have a number lined up. Hoping to get the ACM trained this year to be the walker at day camp next year, have some parents stepping up too.

I disagree with recognizing adults. It creates a competition for the awards, which is not a always good thing. Engineer didn't recognized and it results in hurt feelings. I got snookered into attending the districts award dinner. The district committee spent the next two hours awarding each other.....for what I have no idea. then came the district popularity contest......enough already. Then I had to pay for the privilege and then they had the audacity to have a FOS presentation too. Enough already. The second you start recognizing adults in front of the Troop it is going to lead to hurt feelings. You have to start with the parents for paying for and allowing them to attend. You need to thank the church elders for allowing them to use the church, the camp out drivers....on and on and on. I never volunteered to be den leader, ACM, CM, ACM, ASM, Blue and gold chair, popcorn kernel, pinewood chair, Activity Chair, Day Camp Program Chair, IOLS Staff, JLYT Staff or Crew advisor to be recognized in public. I solider on day after day week after week, some days I get a thank you from the scouts others I do not. A thank you is nice but unnecessary. I fill the jobs because I enjoy it. If your advancement chair has issues with not being recognized for doing the job, it is time to resign.

In the end the only person who has to deal with the lie is the guy or gal you look at in the mirror every morning. If you can deal with live in a world of lies and still look yourself in the eye then OK. I can't do it. I live every day like my last. No regrets, No apology's or thanks left unfinished. Sure there are things I could have done better, but it was my best effort.

If you don't sleep when your scout is on a trip, become a leader. Get off the side lines, stop being the arm chair quarterback. Fill out the app, get trained and see what it is about.

Why would you give gifts? Is it expected? Does it remove the project volunteer status when they are expecting a gift? Another excess that should stop in my opinion. I know that my troop couldn't afford it. What happened to just doing it because it is the right thing to do? just my 2 cents

Ok engineer, leaders all quit. then what? Ya gonna step up? Now remember you only get $15 bucks from each scout, wait that all goes to national, which means you gotta get trained out of your own pocket, Youth protection, Intro to outdoor leader skills, wilderness first aid, weather, on and on. Hows that gonna work for ya? Think ya got at the skills and know how to take your son camping, backpacking, rapelling, whitewater rafting, rock climbing, shooting sports or leadership? I don't have all those skills but I know other BSA leaders you poo poo about have them ane are willing to share them.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

If your definition of lying is holding back the truth.....then no body is truthful. "Honey do these pants/dress/top make me look Fat?" we have all heard this one. how did you answer "Honey it isn't the pants". I don't think so. So are you lying? How is it different from, "did you steal that Ipod?" Both are told to keep you out of trouble, both are told for personal gain, both are told to protect yourself from hurt and conflict. Don't know. just posing the question. Or how about the campout that the boys had a rough time on? Are you gonna tell the parents their son is a lazy, no good, such and such? or are you gonna say that the campout was good and it was a learning experience. How many leaders have you run into that claim to have been to Philmont, Northern Tier, or sea base and have no direct knowledge of the process or campsites? A bunch. How many adult leaders have you met that claim to be eagles and from their personal skills, zero camping or activity planning skills and attitude clearly are not. Now you have a batch of gay atheist kids who lie for 6 years or so to get eagle then wave it in BSA's face saying look I am gay and don't believe in god and I still attained this rank? I think BSA needs to start removing a few of them, yep, a kid pulls that stunt, should receive a legal notification that they are no longer an eagle scout and cannot call themselves such for violating the oath and law of scouting. It is a stunt done with malicious intent.

first off, all these IP addresses are logged on oge can look at them and see if cricket and gay scout are they same. He should do it. Sounds like a troop in trouble to me. 7 athesist scouts????? Scout is trustworthy and reverent. How ever you justify taking the the oath sounds to me like you need some professional help. I could never live a lie for 6 years. oge why don't you post the ip address. I can take it from there. All of the hypotheticals and smart alec comments can go away.

Everyone has hit it Two separate ceremony's Arrow of light for those who have earned it Crossover for those who have decided to join Boy scouts The boys who are undecided or not going to can join their families and watch it from the sidelines. It isn't called the exit from or end of cubbing ceremony, it is called crossover.

Are you guys kidding..........Wilderness first aid for a Cub master. Yes it is over the top. It will expire before he will use it. The kids for the most part are under supervision of their parents. The basic first aid course at the local red cross would be more than adequate. besides a cub with a cut hand, is momma gonna let you see it to fix it???? nope, mom and dad usually will use my first aid kit to take care of it. Then these big fancy first aid kits we get into training........Are you trained to use all the stuff in it???? Some have suture kits, some have meds, some have that new coag pack in them. What happens if you use something more than a bandaid and the boy has a reaction? Then who maintains the kit? Most everything has an expiration date on it. I have trouble keeping up with it. would you use an epi-pen on a scout? NO, the boy or his parent should administer it. In boy scouts the boy should be able to do it. Red cross does offer training to allow us to do it.

I have started composing a post several times with out success The Scout career specific career arrow is a great keepsake. just giving the boys a spray painted gold or blue and gold arrow is kinda stupid, what is the point. The AOL ceremony I believe is important. Some of the boys enjoy it and get it......Others do not. Where or when does it end? We have scouters adding brass plates, wall plaques, animal skins, banners and uniform shirts to the presentation. We have troops giving books, free summer camps, uniform shirts and on and on. How much does it all cost per scout? a quick look at some of the award sites. $100 for some of it?? that is more than I spend a week to feed my family.

I ran a camp for 100+ cubs and tag alongs, had a budget of $1000 for material and property rental. I begged borrowed called in favors running the camp for WHAT? We were lead to believe that the money would be in the account for the following year. Nope. hey got lied to by my DE.....imagine that.

beavah if you think that entitlement is the death of advancement, go down and get a load of soon to be Boy Scout parent Eliza in the Arrow of light thread. Like Eagle007 scouting would be the least of my son or daughters concerns if I got the call they had been arrested for dui.

Like it or not You will be named on any law suit of that nature....... Losing a scout under my supervision would probably be devastating. and then to be named in a lawsuit on top of it, it would just be the icing on the cake. So Beavah, not to argue with you. Say something happens and I am named in a lawsuit involving scouting. Does the BSA provide me an attorney or is it on my dime?????