Basementdweller

Bad attitude? I suppose, but you know I spend 5 days a week in my scout uniform and I bet more time scouting a week than most of the paid professionals. I just want to know what I get for my dollar????? Well that answers what a DE is supposed to do.....I have never seen anything like that. When I hold training, I use a projector and lcd/dvd I purchased to teach with, our district or council does not have things like that to loan out. I have to make my own copys often paid for out of my pocket. I make sure my scouts have a great program, but we cross district and council boundarys to do it. Thanks moose for explaining, but it is irrelevant.

DE? SE? UC? I finally have one, met him, he has no clue what his job is other than acting as liaison for the DE to our unit. Of course we don't really interact with our DE so no idea. I am sure there are a million more. I understand the office staff.....well wait a minute no I don't about a year ago they required me to fill out my tour permits and rank advancement on line......why are they needed?????? I haven't been to the service center in a couple of years, so why is that needed? Camp rangers....I understand that.....As for the rest of the Paid staff, I am not so sure. The way I see it, the DE and SE are using the BSA fundraising the pay themselves. Maybe a narrow view, but calling it the way I see it. Just a sec here The day events I attend are run and staffed by volunteers. The Roundtable is staffed by volunteers The training that I attend is staffed by volunteers in building owned by Churches Still looking for what the paid positions in scouting do????????

I am not a victim. I just have no idea what the DE or SE does for me. I turn my charter into a volunteer at roundtable, I do my own advancement on scoutnet. I do my own recruiting including flyers and yard signs, I have never seen the SE, ever. I run into our DE once in a while at council events and occasionally at roundtable. Since they don't do anything for me I just don't see why I need to pay for them. I get a call from my DE once a year at FOS time. Next year they might not be allowed to present it to the Pack. The committee has discussed it a couple of times, this might be the year it goes thru..... I was the Packs FOS rep a couple of years, I will never call my familys and ask for money like that again, I felt terrible doing it, I feel it hurt my relationship with the Pack, Shaking down my scout Families for money.

So let me ask.......To my point, beyond our camps, scouting does not exist outside my unit. What does the DE and SE do for me? Nothing, Roundtable is put on by volunteers, I do my own boy talks, we have no district cub events, We are required to put our own advancement into scoutnet now, so there is no administrative support. What exactly does Council, district and national do for me????? Far as I can see, camps are it and ours are in terrible shape. Ya got the audacity to ask for more money after I have spent thousands dollars out of my own pocket over the years to put on a decent program???????? This year I turned in an itemized receipt with my friends of scouting pledge card. Ya want to know why I am not giving here it is. Just shy of $1k. Everything from the tshirts I got stuck with thru the camp fees I paid. the DE called and asked me what it meant, I told him his FOS donation was already spent. Our Pack sold 10k worth of popcorn and that should pay our debt to council. When our council is talking about moving our service center from a build it owns to a Fancy high rent district of town I have a problem with it. We also have leaking pools, camps with no running water, and old lake beds with no dams...... I will not give another penny till all this is addressed. I really hate the way our Council does FOS. Rant off

Just curious, why doesn't someone in your group with broad band just capture the course and burn it to a dvd that could be shown to the group. there are many free programs that will let you do that. I don't like spending money on a dvd that will be obsolete

I don't know about the staff changing over..... My staff was full of good old guys and gals. What you said maybe true for the course director, but not the other positions. From what was said at my course...it sounded like they used NYLT as the test bed for changes to the woodbadge course.

DE Unit Commissioner So exactly what is a DE going to do about an internal spat???? This is the realm of Charter Org rep and Committee Chair. Sounds Like the CM has a big old fat head that needs some hot air removed. Face book posting, what are we in high school here people. I would chat with the COR and CC about the issues and maybe provide the CM with a job description for his position. In a nutshell he cannot hire or fire you.

So I was hit up by the DE for money for cub camperships.....and seeing the OA thread about camperships. Who holds the money and how do I find out the amount in the districts or councils account?????? I am curious by nature and would love to know who to ask to find out.

hehheeeheheh.......I am not a doctor that is for sure. But I have spent more than my fair share of time in hospitals. Parents and wife with cancer not that it matters and son's asthma which sends us in a couple times a year. I work in the medical field. Life threatening is a lot of different things to a lot of different people.....I have seen a young autistic man melt down and become very self destructive. If your son is that fragile then scouting isn't the place for him. Gotta a chuckle here......child care, LADY I am not a babysitter. BSA does not stand for Baby sitters of America. At 11 years old your son should not need full time child care and on an outing I should not have to watch every single scout every single minute. (This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

there is a lot of "I"'s in your post.......Scouting is about him, NOT YOU. "So because I think it may not be safe for people I don't know well to watch my son in the wilderness I am a quitter?" hmmmmm, so did he or didn't he go and speak with the troop leadership? Was the Adult and youth leadership aware of his condition?? does his condition contribute to behavior issues?????? If the leadership was unaware, you can hardly blame them if he acted out and got punched for his antics. So is he autistic or AS or some other autism spectrum??? Palsy? We have a couple autistic, adhd and a young man with Palsy in our Pack and troop. My son has terrible asthma twice daily meds and two different rescue inhalers. I cannot imagine what your son would have that would make him so fragile that would preclude him or make him a target. The boys in the troop look after our young man with Palsy and have stepped in at resident camp when other troops start to pick on him. The boys look after my son, I have seen them stop him and tell him to hit the inhaler, yes he needed it. In our troop the older scouts look out for and train the younger scouts........Makes the old man smile when I see it. Heartless, hardly.....most on this forum have years of volunteering at all levels of scouting. Most have dealt with fights among the youth and the adults. All have dealt with complaining parents and youth. Spent sleepless nights with sick or scared scouts, talked a young man the last 2 miles of the twenty mile hike, we are family councilors, youth psychologist, motivational speakers, seamstress, cook, shopper, Banker, cleaner, facilitator, educator, policeman, on and on and on...... Not looking for awards, praise or recognition....just giving you perspective. His little parts hurt????? what the heck is that???? If my son was involved in a fight that resulted in him going to the hospital the police would be involved scouting or not. That is the realm of assault not a boyhood fight. Our point, like it or not is......you cannot protect him for the rest of his life. Scouting is the safest youth organization for him to be in.......The adult leaders have their background checked, there are policies in place to safe guard against child abuse. Your son is safer in the wilderness than he is walking accrossed the parking lot at walmart or walking to school.

OGE My beef is multi tiered. First, the good old boys at the district used the lack of wood badge as a factor in denying my request to put on district activities. Now they say the district doesn't have the resources to put on the event. The behavior of the wood badge staff on my course. The Games at gilwell.......The SPL's son's attending the course causing our patrol problems.... The IOLS course directors loading their patrols with their course members and the clichish behavior. The uneven handedness of the TG on the tickets......The fact we could not keep on schedule......The hours standing at gilwell listening to the announcement song over and over and over again. Yes your right, my major beef isn't with the course content it was on delivery and the fact my district made it a obstacle for the program I wanted to provide the districts cubs. I imagine had I not already attended NYLT training 20 years ago, Brown Sea, at a long ago sold scout camp it may have been better. I am guessing my experience would have been more positive had I not already had 16 years of scouting under my belt. Our council has an outstanding IOLS program, IMHO surpasses Woodbadge for content and relevance. I bonded with that Patrol much more so than wood badge patrol, we still get together for coffee a couple times a year and I consider them friends. I was expecting that.....not so much.

moose.... Who you calling a MORON???? hehehe Luv ya too.

Frank In reading her post she has a chip on her shoulder about being a single mom. IMHO She came to our forum looking for a fight. She and her son are the victim, as they will be the rest of their lives. They were invited to come back and participate in an investigation as to what really happened and she refuses. She will continue to isolate her son from the evil outside world where he may gets bumps and bruises resulting in a man who can stand on his own two feet.

Sorry to hear about the incident. Scouting or not it happens. Just curious, what would have happened different had you been along?

Not all tickets are created equal. It really depends on how your TG interprets the guidelines. Had a couple of ours finish theirs in a couple of months. I still have 6 months or more to go on mine. I doubt that most tickets are the equivalent of 5 eagle projects. Excuse me, but as an adult an Eagle project is a pretty simple thing to accomplish. While it is nice to impress the boys, don't pat your back too hard.

following BSA policy they should have all been in Pfd's. So they flipped....so they got wet. Now they have a great story. bet the don't do it again if the air temp was low. Gee put boys in canoes and expect them not to get wet?????? Please.......

Master educator course last 5 days and cost $500 or more. I have already taken the two day course. I would love to take it but....time off work and the cost is prohibitive

Some land managers want you to pee directly on the trail. Thought is it already damaged. Yes, check with land managers 1 hour isn't enough leave no trace. The cubs in my pack probably get 5 hours a year of leave no trace. Every hike and every outing.

The official date of advancement is June 1st or the end of the academic school year. Work on arrow points, and sports and academic program till then.

Typically our elections tap outs and ordeals are held at and during summer camps.

Well buff...sounds like you have things well in hand. With what you have posted, I agree with Kudu your over thinking it. Invite a couple of boys and an adult and go have fun.

Remember back country etiquette. Buff.....don't know you so just asking.....how are your Backpacking skills and experience? One or two outings does not make you a guide. 20 or 30 makes you experienced. Max size of the group should be 10. Don't take big groups into the back country. Check with land managers, they may have max amount of people in a group....could be as small as 6. If you are traveling a trail system with established shelters do not use them. Let other smaller groups and individuals use them. Smokey mountains are the exception, you are required to have a permit and stay in the shelters. Make sure they understand about body waste and the back country.....peeing in my drinking water makes me very unhappy....had a Troop do that to me while they were day hiking. Cat holes..... Too many scout groups don't understand this and we all get a bad rep because of poor or uncourteous behavior. Base camp?????? that is car camping with hiking. The point of Backpacking beyond, seeing cool stuff is to cover lots of miles. You could slack pack from a moving base camp....but again whats the fun of that. I have done exactly what your talking about. Start with two adults and three or four boys. Only go 5-10 miles in a day and then back out. I would not publicize it the the rest of the troop, it will cause issues. Once you have done it a time or two it isn't that big a deal. One final thought......why are you doing it with in the auspices of scouting. My family and a couple of my sons friends who happen to be in the troop go a couple times a year. Less paper work. He still gets credit toward is camping,or hiking or backpacking merit badges. we are in a small group and the boys know the drill. No required meeting ect. Hey billy what ya doing this weekend? ahhh don't know Hey you want to go and backpack from woods gap to hogpen gap. sure.... Plus you don't have to worry about complaining parents for their son not getting asked or excluded.

Well an ASM resigned over it....I heard what had happened from him when I asked him after seeing the kid at a lodge meeting. The kid is a punk and when I was a member of the Pack he used to beat up the tigers and was the reason we left. DE, COR and the now SM was CM at the time refused to eject the boy for assaulting the other scouts...... Bloody noses and such....... the SM is an Elder in the CO and what he says goes according to the DE, I attempted to file the paper work with him and nothing happened. We left..... That is another story. Beaver.....been involved with the Troop for 4 years now.....I have never ever seen or heard of an OA election team. Just that simple. Not saying there isn't one, just never had one visit our troop.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Brent........it is pretty easy to take shots at me about money and budget when your community has a median income of $82k http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunwoody,_Georgia My community has an income of much less. according to Wikipeidia it is $23k. Just sayin....it is a matter of perspective from the burbs is all. I am going bet to be you have a bunch of stay at home Parents too. My den leaders are all single moms and dads. I am for all intents a single parent, wife works opposite shifts. Not a complaint.....Just sayin there is a significant difference in communities from the middle class to the poor.

there was no election held. The rep showed up and the SM handed him the name. I was not at the tap out or ordeal....but I saw the Grandson at the meeting with a lodge flap and sash on.