Basementdweller

I take those unofficial sites with a grain of salt Here is the reference from nationals site http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/ageguides.pdf Pocket knives are under tools Yes wolves may earn the whittle chip

So what? He did not participate. No patch for you....and if you rush him thru it sort of cheapens the other boys efforts. I would let them bridge with the rest of the scouts, remember the boys advance to the next rank at the end of the current school year. The patch is sort of irrelevant.

SSCOUTER please check your facts before posting. Wolfs are also permitted to earn the Whittle chip. Typically it is done as a bear because it can be part of their rank advancement. Now ask me if I would ever do it or trust a wolf scout with a knife.....

Our pack competes with scoutreach programs for scouts. Two of the three elementary schools that we recruit from have scout reach. In our area, scoutreach youth get shirt, book neckerchief and everything for free. Oddly enough, unit locations, leadership and numbers seem to be a secret. My thought was why not offer them an evening program or at least invite them along on our outings.....Stone walled by the then DE and council. I just wanted to invite them to our fishing derby for petesake. BSA......hey another way to get the united way and other ethnic organization to donate to us. My experience with charity and scouts has not been positive. They gouge us for $100, we see him twice and never again, phone calls and knocking on doors to retrieve uniforms and books with poor results.

No body is going to suggest the boys run the scout law???? Trustworthy comes to mind. At minimum I would ask for the score sheet, sit down with the boys and see if they actually participated in what they earned points for. If they received points for things they did not participate in. I would remove those points and have the boys return the first place prizes. I wonder if they understand they probably did not earn them in an honest manner. I could have been a mistake or could have been ego that help them win. While I appreciate this not being the end of the world it is a teachable moment for sure.

Doc....I am not a saint for sure. My scouts are the most important thing in my world. I am not bucking for the much sought after silver aquatic ground hog or overhand knot. I hope my paycheck comes in a few years when one of my scouts introduces me to his son who is now a cub scout. I live by "lead follow or get out of the way." The district is in the way and probably will always be in the way. Last nights tree planting had a local news crew at it. SPL called them on his own. I know council will be pissed they were not informed. They interview the SPL, a parent, our cutest little venture crew girl and a couple of cubs. They are going to air it Thursday night. I gave the SPL an IOU for dinner at a location of his choosing.....made me smile, the kid keeps surprising me.

We come from the 4 corners of the country and every possible culture and economic bracket. What is acceptable and the norm is different for all of us. I am not the moral or ethic police, I can live my life to the fullest and try to set the example for my scouts by making the right choices. You are correct that people all have hot buttons Some on the board view their role in scouting as protectors of the vaunted Eagle. Me, I just want the guys to have fun and if they learn something a long the way then great.

OGE in my world most of the people I deal with have had brushes with the law, part of the reason we have a hard time recruiting volunteers. To those in the Suburbs a DUI charge is a big deal, in my world it is par for the course. If I had told dad if he drove home drunk, I would call LEO he would have merely grabbed scout son, drove home went inside and not answered the door. Drunk driving isn't a big deal in the inner city, to many shootings, stabbings, domestic violence, robberys and such. I would have lost scout son and the chance to help him break the cycle. He is a really great kid.

It was a poor fellow his second presentation, he did a very poor job and we disappointed them again with our contribution. DE hasn't called yet to shame me for our contribution. The DE call the SM of the troop and asked him to make up the the difference between the short fall for the troops projected amount. 400 bucks. Let me think about that uhhhhhh no. Look you guys are portraying me as some sorta saint.....that I am not. I put on a program for my boy and girls, I do what I have to do to make sure they are engaged and having fun. If I gotta absorb some of the cost I will do it. We had 50 people on their hands and knees pulling garlic mustard today for earth day, tomorrow night i will have 3 girl scout troops, 2 packs and 3 troops and a crew planting 500 trees in a new city park. We are planting 200 trees saturday at a regional park. The boys love it. Got a funny story from yesterday, we were removing honeysuckle from the new city park there are acres and acres of it, there is a community garden there. We had been working an hour or so, had the troop and crew there, bout 30 adults and youth, all in uniforms. we were sitting on tailgates taking a break. up rolls one of the council trucks, interesting, next rolls up a mini van. A couple of dads and tigers roll out......really got my interest now. long story short, it was a photo op for council, completely staged, the boys acted like they were planting in the garden.....I said acted because it was already done, the boys never were allowed to get dirty, dads were in perfect uniforms. here we are, I am bloody from the limp I took to the face, boys and girls are muddy, dirty, sweaty and smelly, watching this go on......The kids saw the humor in what was happening and invited the photographer and the tigers to join us.......SPL made me smile, telling the dads we were more go than show. the boys were game, dads were not. Photographer left with out taking a picture of us. You know district had nothing to do with the earth day stuff, cause it is for the tree huggers. I had a blast this weekend....watching the boys work and I couldn't have been prouder of our accomplishments and gratitude from the city manager.

I was never permitted to address the committee at their meeting. It was held at a private residence and the meeting dates and times were not public knowledge. The SM and I were going to storm the castle as it were, but it never happened. I was told no first by the cub activity chair and then the main activity chair, first in email, then phone and then face to face at round table. And to be honest, after scanning my wood badge card and sending it, and asking for a world conservation award day event and being told no again, I did let her know what I thought about it. But keep in mind this was after 4 years of meeting their requirements and being told NO. So today our Pack and one of the neighboring Packs are finishing the World conservation award . A shame more scouts could not have enjoyed it.

If I followed and enforced da rules exactly as written the Pack wouldn't exsist. An example. Family camp, what do you do with male female couples who are not married and yet are a functional family unit. What do you do with a lesbian or gay couple???? What about older siblings 16 or 17 year olds bringing the boys? what about grandparents who don't have legal custody, but have physical custody. In our scouts lives this is the norm. What exactly do you think would be happen if we confronted these parents about their family units? Not saying I agree or approve of it, it is what it is.

Well come on down and show me how it's done then. Nothing good would come from calling LEO. Must be nice to live in a nice quiet suburb where the worst then you guys have to worry about is the line at the starbucks.

I don't hate the DE. I don't hate anyone. I hate the situation in the district and the good old boy club that prevents what could have been. I have spoken with him just a hand full of times and I know for a fact he doesn't even know my name. My stance is I will do what ever it takes to provide the best program for my scouts. I will not let twisted loyalty to district or council stand in the way of that goal. No district family camp, cub events or camporee, no problem someone is putting one on.....we will go attend that one. The District is irrelevant in my world.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Wow thats an original thought. A district training committee that puts on training and makes training material available to the units, what an original idea. The last time I did it for the Pack I borrowed 6 laptops and used the CO's internet connection. Everyone created a myscouting account and did the training at the same time. They do the training, we talk about it and it gets recorded on nationals records. I have one printer and everyone prints their cards. The best part is the training was free and we did it in an afternoon.

hehehe, Don't need your sympathy. I told you I live in the inner city and deal with everything that entails. Honestly you can't tell me you have never dealt with a drunk or stoned parent. Or one that was too sleepy to drive home safely. You wonder why the den leader was hit, it is a tough neighborhood. At least the new CO we don't have to worry about stray bullets. I will never forget the night we had a gang shoot out right behind the church during a Pack meeting. Saw the muzzle flashes thru the window and everyone hit the floor. We moved two weeks after that event. Single Parent households, grandparents raising grandkids, older brothers and sisters bringing siblings to scouts. Absentee parents, drug addicted parents, abused scouts or siblings. I have seen and dealt with my fair share of this sort of domestic stuff. Had a nasty divorce some to a head in the CO's parking lot after scouting thank goodness. Had children's service's at den meeting more than a few times observing parents and children. Yep, I a deal with stolen popcorn money, drunk and stoned parents. Boys who get forgotten at the CO by parents, had one family bring plastic bags and loaded up on the Blue and gold left overs..... We have our spring family camp coming up. Our flyer needs to include a list of conduct rules for the familys. No Alcohol No Drugs, yes mary jane is a drug No Boy or Girl friends sharing tents. Tobacco in designated smoking area only. Refrain from activity of an intimate nature while at camp. No Gambling Yes we do cooler inspections, and yes we find wine, wine coolers and beer. Had one dad try to smoke a blunt in the smoking area with the other adults.......makes a guy shake his head. Yes we had a couple get intimate and it was apparent what was going on. Scouting is the only safe place for some of these young men and women. (This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

I have not recieved my charter yet and we had to turn it in December 1st. I guess the best thing I can say about my District is they leave us alone except when they want to come and beg for money.

what fun. I aspire to be nothing more than what I am, Den Leader, CM and Adviser and ASM. Perfectly happy here. honestly I am beyond the whole volunteering for the district. I am a malcontent, so be it. I have never called the DE and complained, never called the District commissioners and complained, the Cub activity chair, ya she knows me and we have an understanding. The DE doesn't cringe when he hears me coming and to be honest I don't think he even knows me by name. I will continue to serve my scouts and it keeps me perfectly busy. Nothing more fun than the webelos teaching the wolves trees, leaves and animal signs on a hike. I have three earth day projects this weekend with 100 people scheduled for all three.....it is going to be a great weekend.

I laughing really hard at the moment. So I got to buy a DVD from BSA to show to a bunch of volunteers, who pay a membership fee to put on a required program for a bunch of paying members. That makes sense. If we are going to quibble about semantics. I will just bring a really long network cable, hook into the churches network or starbucks wifi or where ever you conduct your training and project it on the wall. If that doesn't work, I will conduct it at the public library on the public access computers. every one gets one and completes it.

I had the district pinewood in the bag ready to go, zero effort on their part, and they squashed it. they went out of their way and killed the event, They spent nearly a week calling every CM in the District to make sure they knew it wasn't a sanctioned event and their Pack shouldn't participate. I will take care of the boys and girls I serve and make sure their scouting experience the best it can be. I jumped thru their hoops to make the cub events happen, Camp School, woodbadge. I had already recruited volunteers, they were from other districts, But they still were quality volunteers. They killed one event after another. I simply gave up. It is much easier to attend another district or councils event than struggle trying to put one on locally. We have three local Packs that have come together to put on local events for our cubs. Webelos advancement weekend, and Earth day events. Ya, the district is talking bad about us. But who cares, let them flap their jaws.

I don't view making the Training material available as stealing. If I was to make 100 copies that is different. If I make one and put on a class that benefits a group of people it is not, the BSA and the youth served are benefiting. It is a matter of semantics.

Had a drunk parent show up to pick up a cub......I followed the dad home with the cub in my truck. Had a heart to heart with him. Told him no more. He isn't showing up smelling like liquor anymore. Amazingly enough we did not lose the scout. Had a scout show up with bed bugs on him. Talked to mom. We lost that scout. Messy divorces....Dirty scouts....poor diets....over weight scouts. We have next to zero influence to correct any of it.

Doc your perspective an mine are totally different, The youth I serve are poor inner city youth, most go to camp on the generosity of the CO. The two parent household is the rarity in our pack, troop and crew, many youth are being raised by grandparents. Not complaining just saying. I am fighting the good fight, I provide the best program I can with the resources available. I cross district and council lines to go to worth while and interesting events. This FOS fight and the BS going on with the District is something the youth will never see. Our District leadership have been in position some for more than 20 years. They are not flexible and will not allow new things. They need to retire and let some now ideas and blood on the committees. Only the COR, IH, and SM are aware of the issues with district. The COR is also asking questions at the council level. I have not involved the youth or Parents in the struggle. Too many district events????? Other than Roundtable a spring and Fall BS camporee there is nothing scheduled for the district. There were ZERO cub events scheduled. I wanted to plan a fall family camp out.....NO I wanted a spring family camp out.....NO I wanted the District Pinewood derby......NO Initially the District activity committee said I couldn't plan these things because I had not been to camp school, well I did it. then it was woodbadge.......did that too. Now the pinewood was going to be a fundraiser for our Pack, we were going to act as host and keep the profits from the snack Bar. the top three from each Pack raced free with trophies for the top three in each rank plus over all. We were going to include a buy in race with trophies for the top three. We had the gym, we started publizing it. I had an aluminum track and wood track. And cub activity chair called every cubmaster to inform them that it was not a sanctioned event. That ended that, I was stuck for $230 worth of trophies out of my pocket. We used them over the last couple of years within the Pack so it wasn't a complete loss. In a nutshell, I provide the Program as described in the books, I follow the G2SS. The boys are having fun.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

If you would post what area of the country your in, someone from the forum would chime in and try to help. Pay for meeting space??? Den used to meet at the den leaders homes, It isn't a problem to still run it that way. Far as Pack meetings go, I bet the local fire department would let you use one of the bays. The Charter organization is a problem.

I am CM for Pack 1, I am ASM for Troop 1, I am Advisor Crew 1 and Webelos den leader Pack 2 All are registered. When you do the Charter on line it will not let you register any adult for multiple positions with in the Pack or Troop except for the COR, correct me if I am wrong.

Doc, you want to know who recruited me, my son. no DE or SE or UC or anyone else. So your arrogant attitude about Executives recruiting volunteers is complete rubbish. My son was recruited by a flyer paid for out of the CM's pocket. He recruited me to be the tiger den leader the rest is history. I got a really stupid question to ask then. If I already put my rank advancement in scoutnet and do my charter on line with national. Why does another living soul need to do anything with it???? I have already done the work. So in my book it is already processed all he needs to do is collect the money. We have been required to do both on line now since September 2010. Our council office will not accept paper rank advancement any more. If BSA's IT department is that screwed up and it has to be re-entered we need to talk. That is the dumbest thing I have ever seen or heard.