Basementdweller

I took 11 webelos, my son and my 14 year old den chief to resident camp with my Assistant Den Leader......NO PARENTS. In my opinion this is part of the secret to a high retention and cross over rate. Last year 100% of my cross overs went to resident camp. Of the boys I lost, none of them went to resident camp. What kid wants to go to camp and be yelled at by mom or dad for a week???? nope. The youth I serve come from poor families......in the past, I have purchased sleeping bags for scouts whose parents sold them on craigslist before the next outing or I drive by their home to see them stretched out in the rain in the front yards...... So I wouldn't trust the families with the troop tents.

Eagle mom not sure you can earn it as individual. It asks for 50% participation. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/33748.pdf As a leader I would avoid giving your son any extra awards. While some might take some inspiration from the new bobble others will take it as an offense. Look he just hands out awards to son, My son and I have been involved with this and it generally does not work out well.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

My core issue is guilt. I wonder if I ask too much of him. this is his first complaint about gear after campouts and outings. Setting up tearing down 6 tents 3 times in 10 hours was too much. I was exhausted not sleeping with home sick boys. I am looking for fresh ideas on how to teach him the value of selfless service. He was exhausted too, I attribute some of his attitude yesterday to it. He has been in scouting now for 6 years....I have been a leader for that long. He has helped with pack meeting setups all of these years.... He is acting patrol leader and learning his job, but is coming to understand the work that is expected with the position.

Thank you Oak and no offense taken stark. I think what happens is.......The Eagles that are Eagles to their very core go unnoticed. They serve typically with out complaint or the spot light. Cheerful and Unselfish service and do not self promote. We get scouts like this young man who will beat his chest and shout I am an Eagle respect me. Get his state senator to recognize him, get his picture in the paper, on the local news. None the less, he is an Eagle no matter how poor in Character and judgement he is.

Got his picture taken for the paper and didn't even bother to wear his uniform or dress up a bit. As pointed out, The Quality of Eagles varies from this clown to excellent. A positive point of an Eagle mill the Troop leadership would have made sure he was in uniform. Ya make you proud of the Eagles we are producing now.

Yesterday after returning from Webelos resident camp, the son and I were setting up the tents I borrowed from the troop to clean and dry them. It was 98 degrees, sun beating down on us. Son looks at me and says, "Dad this sucks, and it isn't fair. They went home and to bed and I gotta clean up their mess." Well ya know the boy has a point, I sent him in to shower and take a nap. He is right and he has paided a heavier price for scouting all of the other boys in the troop and Pack. Not looking to ignite a huge debate.....Our Troops gear is very important, we don't have the money to replace it and I was happy the Troop committee let me borrow them. So long timers...... How do you balance this???? Just have your scout take care of his gear and his share troop gear and that's it? I use praise and for his help I took him and his best friend to see harry potter last night for his help.

Guess I don't understand your question. As CM your going to get all kinds of mail and email....you will be targeted for fund donations. It is OK to say no. As Eamon pointed out, I do not believe in FOS because we are raising money from our parents who are already paying for program at the Pack level. I repeat over and over again, Beyond Camps District and Council does next to Zero for my unit that I am not paying for already. Well that isn't entirely true, but they stand to benefit from the 503 letter that they LOANED me to sell popcorn. This year we are planning on selling $12k worth of popcorn. Their published take on that will bit $3k which is more than they deserve or earn. So will argue that District and Council provide service. what is that service???? 1. advancement tracking.....ahhh no. Their records are wrong and poorly kept. 2. Program at camp......ahhh no. As a retired Program director. Our program made a profit that was absorbed by the council. 3. Program support......ahhh no again. roundtable staff are volunteers and the church is donated too. 4. The camps.....well they are in TERRIBLE shape. So exactly where is all the money going????? Just attended an Eagle Dinner and I am positive that they made a ton of money on that one. So Laurel it is ok to say no and not attend.....Remember your doing this for your son.

this is what the boys want......whether the adults like it or not. At the Pinewood derby we set up Two Wii systems with Mario cart and run a Mario Kart derby with our Pinewood derby. You did not mention whether it was a Den Activity or a Pack activity. I would try to limit it to a Den activity....more guys playin less guys watching.

Summer off????????? Cub day camp 5 days Troop Summer Camp 7 days Crew Back packing trip 5 days Webelos Resident camp 4 days July Troop camp 3 days August Crew Canoe trip 3 days Just sayin Zero vacation days left.

So what is your guess????? Less than 50% of all merit badges attempted are actually completed as written?????? With so many not completing the merit badge program in the spirit of it's design. lets just do away with it. I read day after day, year after year of eagle driven parents and well meaning Adult leaders comprising the program. The sad part is these WEAK paper only Eagles will be counted and valued the same as our Troop Eagles who actually earn it by the book, they complete each requirement and own the skill, they lead, explore and experience only as boys do...... These threads really make me sad, Scouting has become less than it was.......were boys actually want to attend, canoe, fish, swim, sail, rock climb, hike, camp, explore, hang out with friends...hey guess what along the way they get some ranks as they gain experience and skills.

shakes his head Superior intellect, still laughing at that one.

Ain't no way I would ever post the name here..... National corp would then change policy and we would lose our store fronts because every parent that reads this forum would bother the local managers. Selfish yes, but money doesn't grow on trees and no one else cares about the boys from the hood. As one farm boy put it, why don't you go home.

"I think they are primarily the product of adults who figure out the most efficient methods of carrying their son into the Eagle's nest. It's a product of being goal oriented and efficient. " And isn't scouting supposed to be boy led????? Efficient is not the way a typical boy lead troop functions. Given a choice do 11 and 12 year olds want to sit at a table at the scout meeting doing merit badges or play british bull dog. Or go to a merit badge university or go canoeing for a week. The boys want to be active, the Adults want awards. 2cubs your point is excellent and thought provoking. So do you want a 13 year with an eagle who could care less about it???? or a 15 year old who understands the significance, amount of work and sacrifices made?

Horizon......Hitting a bit close to home???????? How can a 13 or 14 year old take the Eagle Charge? Heck at 14 I am not even sure we have got a peek at the man he is going to become. Our Troop hasn't had an Eagle in more than 10 years, we have lost the boys at 15 because of a very repetitive program. The previous SM was 70 years old and couldn't camp any more.....That has changed and we are currently poised to have our first eagle, I sat down and chatted with him about his project ideas and offered a bit of advice, later I called the District Eagle Board rep and asked for some guidance. I am going to say that our troop is in the traditional sense.....the boys earn a rank or two a year. We don't focus solely on advancement. We love the outdoors, fishing campouts, shooting camp outs, hiking, backpacking....... Pack.....if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck. While there is no rule against Eagle mills, I bet the adult leadership of an eagle mill troop can quote you the advancement rules, It is against the SPIRIT of scouting. A scout is supposed to be unselfish and giving, advancement is not that for sure. I believe Eagle Mills are contrary to the vision of Seton, Beard and Powell.

Just attended an eagle dinner....HUGE corporate sponsorship. HUGE HUGE HUGE. Half the tables there were occupied by high dollar corporate types. Banners in the banquet hall. Private VIP reception, drinks and horderves Really nice program full of corporation ads....... No doubt this was a council fundraiser. .

The store requires a 501 to sell in front of their store. It is a national corp policy.....we have sold for a number of year in front of this store and it is a new one for me. Talked with our old DE a little bit ago and he is going to take care of it????????

The BSA organization I am involved with was very poorly run. There is a lot of things that I have been told we have and we do not. This is one line in a very long list of them. I was simply told the Pack has a 501 of it's own, it was in place a very long time before I was part of the organization. Well after 5 or so hours of investigation we have never been a 501c3. Did you know that if you are a 501 you need to file a tax form every year, 909 or 9099???? The cost is $400 or more. WOW. As predicted the church won't share theirs and the DE is almost of the tough luck line. Ya know. I have WASTED probably 20 hours on this. I am done. I will talk to the store front and if they demand it....guess we won't sell in front of stores this year.

Tiki torches are a bad idea. Had an incident at a camp where a gallon jug of fuel was put in the fire sealed, Not our troop, but it looked like an atomic explosion. Lucky no one got hurt. How do you store the fuel? How close are they to the tents? IMO it creates an avoidable risk, open flame and liquid fuel in the campsite. We just use lanterns as needed.....I just recently purchased some solar powered rope lights from harbor freight, I am interested to see how they work.

NO

You guys are way more generous than me. It is the Adults issue, period. Every single Eagle Mill SM or Leader that I have met brags about how many eagles they produce a year. They advertise it on their troop trailers. The worst one I have personally seen is the one that included ages with the names. The years say 30 years ago, the boys were 16 and 17 receiving their eagles. The more recent years most of the boys were 14. It is about the parents who view it as another line on a resume or something they believe will give them a leg up. It doesn't have anything to do with training. The age of the selfless scouter is over.

Well with popcorn sales and summer camp moneys and all of the moneys that flow thru the account we are probably over 10k in a year. I just want to sell popcorn out in front of a store and they want at 501 Just about to the point of throwing my hands up. Guess the boys won't sell popcorn at the store front this year.

We are not bigger that $10k for sure....we are chartered to a church. I am calling the secretary here in a little bit. If we do a friends of.....I am going to be fairly certain that the church is going to be reluctant to share the info with us, What does it cost???(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Lot of water stuff. Sounds like you have a pretty nice program. But it sounds like your in a bit of a rut.... Do you camp at the same spots year after year????? Same activities year after year???? I don't see any service or conservation projects. Our boys love working for the local park system. The naturalist is a cute little recent college graduate, so I imagine that helps. I have taken and shown them my eagle project which is at one of the parks we work at.....We work at a food pantry and the CO's soup kitchen. How about sports games?? we go to a baseball game and local college football games. My sons patrol is going to see captain america this weekend and they cough cough, go to the local amusement center and have played OMG laser tag as a patrol. The thing to remember is it needs to be fun, exciting and different. My son's patrol is planning on going to a local place in september that was featured on man vs. food. that should be fun.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

guilty as charged. I have a collection of tarps from sheets of plastic with duct tape reenforced corners to my silnylon I use when the family and I go backpacking. The reason I mentioned not cooking under the tarp and then sleeping under it is the increasing number of bear attacks....none of them related to scouting. But ya know an ounce of prevention.

Grumble grumble grumble. Long story short. I have been told our Pack has a 501c-3....Well my lovely treasurer can't find the letter and the IRS doesn't seem to have record of it either after a really really really long time on the phone..... In a nutshell I am ticked off and need of some guidance. It looks like an expensive process, So has anyone done it???? any advice or guidance????