Basementdweller

Gps's with internal rechargable batteries are a bad idea.......I use one that uses 2 AA's That way when I go out for multiple days....I can change batterys and record my track.

So I am guessing................... No one here goes into the back country??????? What other practices would make us better users of the back country?????? What other practices would improve our image in the outdoor community???

Bart you need to read a little before you post questions.

Ok I gotta ask here. So i am supposed to report this bunch to their charter org and council......So how in the world do you know who they are and where they are from, no one had a scout shirt on and I don't remember seeing a troop number on any t shirts or council strips. I am going to guess they were from virginia or North Carolina, but how in the world do you know???? The no one had a southern accent so they could have been yankees too????? I would not have trusted any answer I would have gotten from them any how.

One does not hike the Appalachian trail and expect solitude. t2 you have already decided that this conversation is about Basement complaining about the evils of scouting. For the record, during my 5 days of hiking, none of the troops I encountered were loud obnoxious or ill behaved. This conversation is not about leave no trace all of Boy scouts policed themselves better than the general public. I had two troops try to feed me one friday night and another sunday for lunch. My point is a conversation regarding back country ethics and the boy scouts. Far as the incident at the shelter, I would not like a stranger sharing a shelter with my troop.....with that said, my troop would not require the shelter, we would tent camp at the shelter site.

So how do you know they were boy scouts......the philmont shirts and boy scout pants were dead give aways. In all honesty I was not going to sleep at the shelter, I was merely cooking on the picnic table. I was really put off being told to leave. I got to chuckle as I walked away......the rafters of the shelter were full of mice nests and as I was cooking my dinner all of them were moving.....there was a lot of mice in that shelter. Report them honestly???????? NOBODY CARES. A random civilian complains to a council that one of their Troops was rude and asked him to leave a public shelter. Whats gonna happen???? nothing. What I can do, is post it here and maybe someone will read this post. and make a better choice. In my opinion two things could have happened differently. First the group size was too large and the second they should not have expected to utilize the shelter. What would have happened if a church youth group or another Troop was their first??????? Basements Boy Scout Back Country ethics 1. Limit total group size to 10 or less 2. Do not utilize shelter system if available 3. Do not overwhelm local resources, such as water sources and privies. More to follow

Well let me give you an example..... I was at a shelter before dark, making dinner when troop walked up and after a few minutes I was told to leave by the scout leader because they had more people and had planned on using the shelter. They had 15 people in their group. I asked to see his reservation.....oh wait all the shelters are first come first serve. At that point all three leaders were there telling me to leave. Maybe I am not talking about rules, maybe a guide of ethics like Leave no trace.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Scouters are not as selfless as they appear on the surface.......this GAME exposes them for the dirt bags they really are.

I have zero issue with their Leave no trace...there campsites were clean. I have direct experience solo without my scouts in tow. I also had the advantage of the public not knowing I was a scout leader. These were not the folks car camping at the koa, but folks who love the backcountry......None of their complaints were related to noisy boys. The reason I say rules or guidelines because it is clear that the leadership whether youth or adult needed guidelines or rules to be better user of the back country.

Just got back from few days on the Appalachian Trail. I have gained an interesting perspective regarding Boy Scouting and our use of public facilities. I was looking for your thoughts on how you think the BSA is doing. In a couple of days I will post what I saw and what the public had to say about us and what we were doing and how we are doing it. From this experience I believe that the BSA needs to make some rules regarding this. It is a problem and now I understand why most of the people I meet really dislike boy scouts.

Well, engineer.....you could go on the camp outs. They cannot tell you no.

In the time it took them to construct the shelter they could have walked out.

I would not sit down and wait for rescue. especially after only walking and hour...... I would pull out the compass, there is a road less than a mile from straightback due east.

Trusting scout parents.....really????? I am betting that you haven't been stuck multiple times for hundreds of dollars during fund raisers by parents taking product and not turning in the money. Fred.....I agree that the DE's jobs full of conflicting issues, numbers, quality, money and tradition. But my DE doesn't do anything for me that I am aware of.

Eamon......Trust???? District District leadership.....Yes I trust them to look after their own special interest, youth be damned District Program........Yes I trust it will be sub par District Executive......Yes I trust he is money and numbers drive Now when you say trust the DE.....What exactly am I trusting him with??? I trust he will badger me about the FOS and getting my youth apps and money. I don't know what I would trust him with, the man does absolutely nothing for me. Same for the Unit commissioner. Much the same could be said about council. Troop and Pack Parents NO. Leadership Yes. COR NO. So Eamon....are we talking expectations???? Is district meeting our expectations NO. Is council meeting our expectations NO.

As the title describes..... It seems our brother Eagle scout was unprepared skill and material wise for his getting lost in the NH mountains. So what do you carry and do you feel it is adequate??? My day pack is a decade old kelty with a 3 liter camelback hydration pack. It is always at the ready......It has a resident compass, lighter, personal first aid kit, emergency blanket, Poncho and knife. Basically all I need to do is add a map, food and water and I am good. Recently I have added a whistle to the shoulder strap because of a couple of recent bear encounters. For an area I am not familiar with I would add some additional food, probably take my hand held gps as well. Your thoughts......

NOW THATS FUNNY

depends on your council The only time we need a tour plan, according to council, is when we leave the council boundaries or participate in high adventure such as rapelling or canoeing. I have filed a number of of TP's and they all get returned by email saying that a TP is not needed for activities with in the Council boundaries. Far as a hard copy goes, I would print the email returned to you by council and carry it with you. I do this even for the events that do not require a TP.

Moose......in talking to the neighboring Packs they were excluded as well by the required parent rule. The District event had 12 Webelos out of a possible 500. Sad state of affairs. The event organizer allowed a person friend bring a couple of webelos with out their parents....fair right??? The best part is we went on the same weekend to a neighboring council Webelos woods event it was cheaper, and did not require an adult for every webelos. The program was superior to our districts event in all ways. I spoke with the neighboring CM's and we are going to that event as a group next fall.

See this thread http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=331842

So this fellow was one of our hallowed eagle scouts. this simply strengths the fact that an Eagle is just a patch.

PCHA......I wasn't attacking moose saying her course stinks.......I was attacking her idea of testing out. This is exactly why there should not be a test out or the test out is tough enough to make sure the adults have the advertised skills. I know for a fact that 90% of my districts adult leaders could not handle themselves in the backcountry, heck they can barely handle themselves in the front country. T2 being lost is a fantastic experience and ever scout should have. I was lost as a scout found my way out, no big deal. scared to death at the time. So being lost what did you learn????? My point is they were lost less than 1 hour after leaving the group. They should have known their relative direction of travel, They should have pulled out their compass and and simply reversed their direction of travel and been back to their starting point. My other point is rescuers were to them in 30 minutes and they walked out in 40 minutes according to the articles. Looking at the map, There are a number of roads less than 1 mile from any point on straight back mountain. I am going to guess they should have heard the traffic(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

Moose as an IOLS trainer in the area this occurred you SHOULD to have an opinion about what happened. If memory serves you were also very vocal about supporting a test out. This could have been a student that passed thru your course for pete sake. Prevention.......Do not split group. Actually have the skills you think you possess. BSA Adult training needs to be more than do you best. Remember your sons life may depend on it.

Calico.......they got lost and gave up in less than 1 hour. they still had 5 hours of day light to keep moving and try to find the trail.....they gave up.

joebob that is funny and very true. I still believe IOLS is woefully in adequate. Uninjured.....lost with a cellphone, map and compass and couldn't get out. I would resign ASAP. an absolute embarrassment to scouting.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)