Basementdweller

Oh this is very much a race and class issue........ Class or societal norms are very different between a home on welfare or working poor and folks in the Suburbs of Dallas or Atlanta...... We have some well mannered boys, but we also have some boys, I bet most of you would discard.

Local briars grow to 6 foot tall..... guess I backpack more remote than most.....Family goes a couple times a year.....Several times we don't see another person the entire trip....

Diverse opinions...... Soooo, Is scouting for the Two Parent, Wealth white, God fearing quarterback valedictorian types???? Or The non white, poor, no parent boy who needs some training in manners and learn how to be a productive member of society???? Scouting for boy 1 is easy....money isn't a problem, parental support isn't a problem.....He generally is well mannered, respectful and well on his way to being successful in life......the easy pickins......They guy that National likes because he is going to be the High Dollar business man or Engineer. Scouting for boy 2 is much more difficult.....He isn't equipt with the social skills that most of us take for granted, he doesn't say please and thank you, Won't stand in line to eat at summer camp, doesn't understand grace, doesn't use silverware to eat....He doesn't listen to or follow instructions......He doesn't have money or parental support....Much lower education level for the age....Has not traveled.....Probably has a huge independent streak because he has raised himself and often times his siblings.....they generally have a smart mouth as well. How many of you would take the time to work with scout 2????? From what I am reading not very many......

So I go to register my webelos for resident camp...... So I need to create an account with other council.....then I need to complete a roster with bsa id's, street addresses, birthdates and phone numbers...... Then I have to register each boy individually......half way thru the sessions were full....I cannot edit the previous boys to keep my group together....... At this point I have three hours registering 10 webelos for camp.....NO. Emailed the CD and told them I wasn't doing it.....if she couldn't do it for me I would take my boys else where......the should return my check immediately..... Pissed off yes....completely ridiculous.....

So reading the thread I spun from...... what will the SE do if this was reported?????

I would call the SE and let him do his job. I don't care what he has done or will do...... It is irrelevant and your inder obligation to report it.

Son is friends with the boys in his patrol......Many of them have spent the night at my home..... It wasn't a scout event, I did not invite the scout over, I was not one on one with the scout, I did kill him a few times in death match and he returned the favor..... It was my son inviting a friend over....... It was not me, Male Adult 40 something, inviting a boy over........ Big difference

In rereading the OP..... I would call the SE immediately and report this.....

1) Youth Protection Coverage starts and ends with the event's open and close. SM taking an unrelated youth home with him to unload the car is ok. That is incorrect.....It is against YP to have a boy unrelated to you in a car without your own son along. 2) Driving unrelated youth to / from events is ok since roads are public, plus youth protection coverage has not started. Insurance is in place because we are in Class A's, but Youth Protection is not. One on One no........ 3) Arriving at camp alone with unrelated youth 30 minutes ahead of the Troop is not okay, but just an unfortunate result of poor planning. It would be fine if he followed YP in the trip up having multiple scouts or another adult along. 4) Inviting an unrelated youth over to a leader's house alone to work on gear, advancement, youth leadership is acceptable since it is not an official event. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO 5) Inviting two unrelated youths over to a leader's house to work on gear, advancement, youth leadership is acceptable since it is not an official event. It is ok and follows the buddy system. 6) A written note from parents will allow SM to waive one on one youth protection coverage. This is the old "friends of the family" thing. I do not drive my friends' kids who are Scouts that I've known for 7 years around one on one. I get that it is odd that "Uncle Joe" can pick up a kid but the SM or other leader can't drive him home alone. I dislike this note thing because now we have the Scouts that can drive with the SM alone and those that can't. That is fine.....but aren't friends and families the ones who end up being the most frequent abusers. No it does not follow the YP rules.... 7) As part of mentoring the SPL/ASPL or other Youth Leaders the SM can go one on one. For example, 15-30 minutes alone with the Scout before or after a PLC. It is never done totally alone.....usually in a public hallway or in view of the troop or others. Never in a room with a closed door or after everyone goes home. 8) OA follows different Youth Protection than Boy Scouts or Cub Scouts. It is a brotherhood, and the distinction between Arrowmen is not as clear as regular adult leaders and Scouts. Plus it is the honor society, and as such more trustworthy. OA should follow the exact same YP as the rest of the BSA.. 9) If any of the above are false, the District Executive can adjust Youth Protection so that things are ok. This is not the guy you'd usually bring Youth Protection issue to. The DE has no authority to change national rules or guidelines.....I would email or call the council SE and copy the DE and DC about the concerns.....There role is to investigate. 10) A parent being "around" (ex: readily available on cell phone just a mile up the road) makes it not one on one. That is not acceptable..... Have you spoken with your CC and COR about this and your concerns...... You have every right to be concerned.....While nothing may be going on.....It violates the rules that protect both youth and adults..... Something just doesn't seem right, is the fellow married???? have or had a family???

Decent trail system.... Well most every trail system I have ever been on, except city parks, get fallen trees, briars over hang the trail.... Some of the more remote ones are very rugged......Basically a narrow corridor thru the brush. Son tore up his sleeping pad that was hung horizontally below his pack on one of these trails.... Again....depends on your expectations.... If it doesn't fit in the pack it doesn't go.... Trying to work with my boys about that.....noting worse than a couple of nalgene bottles swinging on carabiners or tennis shoes swinging my their laces on the back of a pack...... So are we doing our scouts a favor by letting them strap a bunch of crap to their packs and looking like a bunch of hobos????? OR Train them on what they need to take.....An honest discussion of gear, clothing and shelter.... Then we have adult leaders acting the hero with the 120 liter packs....Completely packed I might add...... I have a Granite Gear crown VC 60...I have about 80 miles on it....2 pounds.....For 99% of my backpacking it is exactly what I need..... http://www.granitegearstore.com/Crown-VC-60-P313C7.aspx

Well, I would not have left the gear outside unsecure..... while it is a lesson, Money and gear is very hard for us to come by and Other than buying out of my pocket it would not get replaced...

So is there any turning around the toxic scouts????? I really hate discarding one boy especially one that could really benefit from scouting

Well Eagle.... Ya have a couple of choices..... Swoop into the rescue and allow the toxic CD continue her rain of terror. Or let it fail because of her forcing the powers hands to deal with it. Sounds to me like you just have a lazy/clueless PD.......I did the program director thing and it was a ton of work......Ordering supplies????? What in the world is their to order???

That is a simple fix.....Moose.... Everytime your dealing with the scout you tell him your recording him...When scout starts acting up in the group tell him that the conversation will be recorded..... He will forget soon enough and provide the self incrimination......

We had one similar...bully.....The cruelest person I have ever met. The end of his days was my son came out complaining about how he was treating the other boys, swearing, racial slurs......After a couple of trips to speak with the young man about his language and general attitude, I set my phone to record and gave it to my son to walk over to the table and record what was going on.... SM had a conference with Scout, mom and dad, who think he is an angel, boy denied all the allegation.....SM pulled out the phone and asked if he would like to change his story or let the recording speak for itself..... Played the recording........Mom was beet red, dad was sweating and very tense....scout denied that was him on the recording....... Dad snatched son, mom apologized and we never saw him again. Right or wrong.....TT?????? I had no idea what else to do. Very intelligent, manipulative, respectful to adults.. The adults thought he was a super kid

This isn't family counciling...... I would thank him for his honesty....and ask how he would like to proceed. I would not tell his parents, but suggest he have the discussion with them. I would not fail him on scout spirit or penalize him, because of how he feels..... I imagine this is why we lose so many older scouts. Do you think he told you so he would be ejected from the troop or you would tell his parents?????

Bottom line is Two stoves are missing Who is going to replace them????? I may suggest if your going to penalize each patrol, then you provide them a means of securing their gear so the other patrols cannot get into it. It is tough to penalize the instructor....although in my eyes he was the person at fault. I find it interesting that all that gear was left outside after the meeting????? Doesn't anyone in the troop do a walk around after the meeting????? I do to check the doors and windows at the CO... During these walks I pick up books, shirts coats hats on and on.

cross posted with pappy...

I would think the hours and hours spent over a youths scouting career would be a gift enough.......

I think fish is referring to plop camping......In that case the best thing is a large duffel bag with all your gear inside. I would never advise anyone to haul a sleeping bag in a duffle bag backpacking.

Fish...... I would get a 120liter duffle bag for camping.....roll your sleeping bag and keep it in there, with your sleeping pad, mess and hygene kit...that way you just need to add clothing for your camping trip.

NJ it is pretty simple...... They join in June......We go to webelos resident camp in July.....We camp with the troop in august.....we go to a webelos advancement weekend out of council.....We will have all of the activity pins, camp outs, camp visits and troop visits done by January of their first webelos year........So why should we hold them back???????? Ultimately it is up to the Parents and the boy. We do run into age issues.......

So the young man is up against a time deadline...... So how do you help guide young men to prevent this situation???

Moose..... I was wondering what games were being played on the Adult side as well.....

Fish... you have spent time reading the forums.....You understand that is the way it is supposed to be. Your scouts turn being grubmaster and such is coming.....POR just don't show up to a campout pitch his tent and have fun....A scout being a good quartermaster is a fairly tough job. A large number of Cub Leaders who join troop leaders are Very much Type A personalities..... they cannot sit back and watch the boys doing their thing,