NE-IV-88-Beaver

The rule was changed some time back to be for travel anywhere outside of your district. Tour permits are not required for attendance at district and council events, wherever held. In essence, the person responsible for said event is filing a tour permit for all attending.

If you really want to get a response, try this; Make a new set of beads the same size. Drop them in your campfire until they are crispy. Make up a great story, take them to assembly and sheepishly present them. I'm sure that you'll get a reaction from the staff and the other patrols will remember you! Then you can present the real beads with a small set of charred beads on them as an enhancement. The Owl Patrol did this on my course many years ago and people still talk about it!

dScouter15, I have to take exception to your definition of "administering his own meds". I question legally if it would hold up that you are not the person administering the drugs since you are the person being placed in charge of them. "The scout is still responsible for administering his own meds, but the adult leader still is able to remind the scout if necessary." In your scenario, all the Scout is doing is taking his pills out of the bag that you are maintaining and giving them to himself. And this is for Scouts deemed mature enough by their leaders to be taking NYLT (13 to 17 year old Scouts)! What do you do if the parent says that they would rather have their son responsible completely for his own medication? He has been doing it for the last x years. What do you do for nebulizers, epipens, and allergy meds that should be close at hand, when needed? Do you tell them that it is course policy that they follow your procedure? If so, then you have taken over the responsibility for administering medication, and in some cases possibly placed these youth in unnecessary danger, whether you think so or not. We all understand that there could be special circumstances that could warrant your procedure (such as meds needing refrigeration), but as the rule I find that it diminishes the whole intent behind youth leadership training. We are teaching responsibility and self-reliance. I agree that is essential that a person be responsible for knowing what medications are in camp. This would be determined at medical check-in and parents would be made aware that their son will be completely responsible for his own medications. I think that it is also a good idea to periodically check to see if they are taking maintenance meds. But to subject them to lining up for a sick call to pick up their medications, I think, invades their privacy and demeans them. I have been involved with youth leadership training (JLT, YLT, or whatever) at the district and council level for almost thirty years. I have found that most parents would rather see their child be responsible for his own medication. They do it at home and why shouldn't we give them the same opportunity!

2) has WRITTEN permission from his parents/guardian to allow this other dad to take him on the campout and to be responsible for him

Gunny, Don't know? The BSA official's terminology, not mine, but he doesn't say convicted of, so I think accused of is probably the case. That is probably the reason BSA fought so hard to keep the files private as accusations should be kept private, not the case with convictions IMHO.

The media has had a field day with the BSA maintaining "Perversion Files". Was that the official designation by BSA? Some former BSA folks on this forum had other names for the files but did not know them officially as the "Perversion Files". It appears from the following that these files were but a subset of the total. From the Oregonian: "Nate Marshall of the Boy Scouts of America told jurors that the files were meant to help the organization keep undesirables out. He spoke specifically of files kept from 1965 to 1985, but acknowledged that the Scouts continue to gather such information. The information, Marshall said, helps maintain the Scouts' positive image and has helped make it "one of the safest organizations a young person can be involved in." Marshall explained that the Boy Scouts of America sorts volunteers deemed unfit into six categories: criminal, financial, leadership, religious, moral and perversion. Those who fall into the first three categories have committed crimes, been involved in inappropriate financial dealings or proved themselves poor leaders by treating children badly. The "religious" files describe volunteers who are atheists or agnostics, and thus not allowed in the organization. The "moral" category is designated for gays. And the "perversion" category designates volunteers who've committed sexual misconduct, such as molesting children, soliciting prostitutes or possessing child pornography."

In everything that I have been able to read about this case, there has been no proof offered that Cascade Pacific Council - BSA had received any information on self-confessed abuser Assistant Scoutmaster Timur Dykes. Proof was offered that the LDS Bishop, Gordon McEwen, had received allegations about Dykes' abuse, confronted Dykes who admitted abusing 17 boys, investigated and could not find one of the boys willing to admit the abuse. Dykes was later arrested and pleaded guilty to attempted sexual abuse, received probation and was ordered to stay away from children. Knowing this, McEwen still allowed Dykes to be a Scout leader. The parents of the youth involved did not know about Dykes being ordered to stay away from children until called to a police station to pick up their boys. A police officer pulled over a van that Dykes was driving loaded with Scouts on a camping trip. The officer, realizing that Dykes was a sex offender and was not supposed to be around minors, arrested him and took the boys to the police station. What in the world was the bishop thinking? Proof was also offered that the youth in question had at least twenty unsupervised sleepovers at Dykes' apartment, sometimes with other boys but alone on several occasions. Dykes had even been invited into the boy's home on at least one occasion, to look after the boy and his siblings. What in the world was this boy's parents thinking, to allow this man to be alone with their children? How many of you have ever had one of your Scouts over for an unsupervised sleepover? None I hope! What has this trial accomplished? All of those records that BSA had protected for so many years have been introduced into evidence and are now part of the public record, available for all to access. The Oregon Supreme Court should have allowed the plaintiff's attorney access to the files to determine whether or not Dykes was in the files and / or whether there was a pattern of abuse cover-up. The court should have only allowed those files pertinent to the case to be introduced to become part of the record. Unfortunately that wasn't done so hopefully the judge, at the conclusion of this case, will order that all files be returned to the BSA and that the court records be sealed to protect others from unwanted and unwarranted publicity. What a mess!!! But again, I haven't seen any proof offered that BSA knew anything about the abuse. Gathering and disseminating information thirty years ago was nothing like it is today!

My sympathies, SctDad! Unfortunately I've heard of this happening on a number of occasions. Since it was just discussed at their meeting two weeks ago, you had every right to expect them to live up to their obligation. When I question how these things happen, I'm told , "well it's up to the boys to do keep on top of these things". I can't say that I totally buy into that. There is a Ceremonies Team Adviser and I feel that he has an obligation, once a commitment is made, to see that these ceremonies happen. A missed ceremony really gives the OA a bad name and puts a bad taste in the mouths of these brand new Boy Scout parents. I hope that someone at least apologizes to you for leaving you hanging out there with egg on your face.

Way to go, learn from your experiences and take advantage of improvement opportunities! It sounds like you're already on your way to providing a better experience for these Cubs next year.

Yes, Scoutfish, life does present it's little dilemmas, doesn't it! Instead of placing the blame on the den leaders, of which you are one, lets put some out there on the other parents. Twenty-four cubs is entirely too many for one den. Where were the other parents when it came time to step up and volunteer to be leaders, to split the den up into a more manageable number? Where were they when it came time to work with their boys at home? Where were they when it was time to address how Cubby was doing with the den leaders? The Cub Scout program only succeeds when parents step up and do their part. It's a family-based program, not just one hour-a-week or every other week. In the situation that you have described (although you imply that there may be more involved), the den leaders have done an outstanding job accomplishing anything with that big of a den. I hope that your den as Webelos Leader next year will not be that big! If it looks that way, start looking for additional leaders now and split it up into two dens of twelve at least. But, whatever you do, do not start advocating giving out rank advancement that has not been earned. That is really a road that you don't want to get started down. Although there is something to be said for the philosophy of just giving each boy joining Boy Scouts the Eagle rank to begin with, then the pressure is off and they can just enjoy themselves! It sure would make it easier for us as leaders! Doing that would make us just a social club without a goal of developing young men into good and responsible citizens and would not be advancing the Scout program.

Sorry, John! I realize that Scouting magazine is not an official publication of the Boy Scouts of America. Oh wait, sorry again, but it does say on the inside that they are an official publication. A recent update said that the Historic Merit Badge Program is not canceled but is still a go! http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/100th-anniversary/ Another source: http://www.scoutstuff.org/BSASupply/images/pdfs/HistoricalMBFlyer.pdf "TRUSTWORTHY" - I'm not advocating that anyone do anything, John. I made a statement "We received the word in our council on March 2nd that it was a go with this program." On March 2, the professional in my council responsible for the Advancement Committee sent the following: Subject: FW: HistoricalMBFlyer.pdf Committee: I hope you are all doing well. I have a few updates for you. 1. Below is a link to the info and requirements for the Historical Merit Badge Program. The program IS A GO! I think that supports the statement that I made. I know that our Scout Shop has the badges in stock because I saw them in early March. Someone requested information on the requirements. I supplied the information that Scouting magazine published and that was also attached to the above from our council professional, that's all "TRUSTWORTHY" - It's not something that I'm making up, John. I'm relaying information that was given to me by my council and they are going with it, therefore I'm not doing a disservice to anyone, regardless of your opinion! And yes, I agree with you, National has flummoxed this program from the word "Go". What should have been a simple task has been mismanaged and made into a glaring example of their current ineffectiveness for all to see. Others may do as they wish!!

We have encouraged our parents to work with their sons to teach self-medication. They are asked to let us know what meds their sons have with them and what schedule they are on, in case reminders are needed. If the boy has specific needs, such as a nebulizer for asthma, that it be placed in a particular pocket of his pack and that he should inform other members of his patrol, in advance, where to find it, should the need arise. If a parent is not comfortable with this procedure, special arrangements will be made to have one leader responsible for the medication but this has become a rarity. We adopted this practice several years ago when we noticed that the Scoutmaster needed to carry an extra pack just to handle all the meds and carry a clipboard just to try to keep the med schedule on track. It also started to resemble a military sick-call to distribute the meds. That didn't seem to be the best way to use someone's talents. We have found that this method teaches the Scout to be self-reliant and affords him a certain amount of privacy. It also feeds into that philosophy of separating the boys and adults, making the boys responsible and letting them do their own thing.

We received the word in our council on March 2nd that it was a go with this program. Below are the requirements as originally released by Scouting magazine on January 12, 2010: Carpentry It was first offered in 1911 and discontinued in 1952. Requirements: 1 - Demonstrate the use of the rule, square, level, plumb-line, miter, chalk-line and bevel. 2 - Demonstrate the proper way to drive, set, and clinch a nail, draw a spike with a claw-hammer, and to join two pieces of wood with screws. 3 - Show correct use of the cross-cut saw and of the rip-saw. 4 - Show how to plane the edge, end and the broad surface of a board. 5 - Demonstrate how to lay shingles. 6 - Make a simple article of furniture for practical use in the home or on the home grounds, finished in a workmanlike manner, all work to be done without assistance. Pathfinding It was first offered in 1911 and discontinued in 1952. Requirements: 1 - Demonstrate a general knowledge of the district within a three-mile radius of the local Scout Headquarters, or his house so as to be able to guide people at any time day or night to points within this area. 2 - Know the population of the five principal neighboring towns and cities as selected by his Guide or Counselor. Demonstrate direction for reaching them from Scout Headquarters or his house. 3 - If in the country, know the breeds of horses, cattle, sheep and hogs owned on the five neighboring farms; if in the city, demonstrate directions to tourist camp and to five places for purchasing food supplies. 4 - Demonstrate how to direct tourists from his home to gas, oil, tire, and general auto repair. 5 - Give telephone number, if any, and directions for reaching the nearest police station, fire-fighting apparatus, Court House or Municipal Building, the nearest Country Farm Agent's office, doctor, veterinarian and hospital. 6 - Know something of the history of his community and the location of its principal places of interest and public buildings. 7 - Submit a scale map, not necessarily drawn by himself, upon which he has personally indicated as much of the above-required information. Signaling It was first offered in 1910 and discontinued in 1992. Requirements: 1 - Make an electric buzzer outfit, wireless, blinker, or other signaling device. Send and receive in the International Morse Code, by buzzer or other sound device, a complete message of not less than 35 words, at a rate of not less than 35 letters per minute. 2 - Demonstrate an ability to send and receive a message in the International Morse Code by wigwag and by blinker or other light signaling device at a rate of not less than 20 letters per minute. 3 - Send and receive by Semaphore Code at the rate of not less than 30 letters per minute. 4 - Know the proper application of the International Morse Code and Semaphore Codes; when, where, and how they can be used to best advantage. 5 - Discuss briefly various other codes and methods of signaling which are in common use. Tracking It was first offered as "Stalking" in 1911 and discontinued in 1952. Requirements: 1- Demonstrate by means of a tracking game or otherwise, ability to stalk skillfully in shelter and wind, etc., when occasion demands. 2 - Know and recognize the tracks of ten different kinds of animals or birds in his vicinity, three of which may be domestic. 3 - Submit satisfactory evidence that he has trailed two different kinds of wild animals or birds on ordinary ground far enough to determine the direction in which they were going, and their gait or speed. Give names of animals or birds trailed, their direction of travel, and describe gait and speed; or submit satisfactory evidence that he has trailed six different kinds of wild animal or birds in snow, sand, dust or mud, far enough to determine the direction in which they were going, and their gait or speed. Give names of animals or birds trailed, their direction of travel, and describe gait and speed. 4 - Submit evidence the he has scored at least 30 points from the following groups: [Group (f) and 4 of the 5 groups (a), (b), ©, (d), (e) must be represented in the score of 30 and at least 7 points must be scored from (a), (b), or ©]. Make a clear photograph of: a. Live bird away from nest (4 points) b. Live woodchuck or smaller wild animal (3 points) c. Live wild animal larger than woodchuck (4 points) d. Live bird on nest (3 points) e. Tracks of live wild animal or bird (2 points) f. Make satisfactory plaster cast of wild animal or bird tracks with identification imprint on back of each (2 points) Requirements were REINTRODUCED effective January 1 - December 31, 2010 ONLY. Scouts must start and finish all requirements within the year 2010. The above requirements were verified against those given out on March 2 with the only change being the word "tracking" in requirement 1 under Tracking was originally released as "stalking" (easy to understand why the wordsmiths made that change). Hope the above is helpful to you!(This message has been edited by NE-IV-88-Beaver)

It's hard to believe how addictive this site becomes! And how bad the withdrawal can be when it's not available!! Thanks Terry for your valiant efforts to keep us up and running............... (This message has been edited by NE-IV-88-Beaver)

If that's true, why did they make the merit badge patches and put them in stock?

1. Tastykake French Apple pie 2. Tastykake French Apple pie 3. Tastykake French Apple pie 4. Tastykake French Apple pie 5. Tastykake French Apple pie Not a lot of variety in my top five favorites, but if you know what you like, why worry about it!

One thing that you might want to check on is whether the boys are still on their meds over the weekends. We found that some of our parents decided that their sons needed a break and didn't give them their meds on weekends. This made for a very different little Johnny than the one that we saw at troop meetings. After talking to the parents, most of them saw the wisdom of continuing to give their sons their meds on trip weekends. Some that didn't were eventually requested to go on trips with their sons although this was a rarity. Scouting is an important part of these boy's lives so we don't want to isolate them from the program. Are any of your assistants trained in working with youth with this type of problem? If not, it may be worth your while to seek a volunteer to take some type of special training. Over the years, we have had a number of boys with ADD and ADHD. Most of them,looking back on it,were a joy to be around as we watched them develop into fine young men.

They were published on Scouting magazines blog on January 12, 2010. http://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2010/01/page/2/ One would assume that they have a connection to BSA..........

Johnny's Eagle Scout project - Build new trail from here to there. Johnny to Dad - "Here are some plans that I found, build this trail for me and let me know when you finish it. Delegating is a style of leadership, but does this satisfy the intent behind the requirement? Johnny has a minimal time investment but a new trail is built leaving everyone satisfied and happy (I was going to say everyone but Dad, but nah, he's happy too because he has a new Eagle Scout in the family). "The vagueness of this requirement gives it flexibility, which we need, but it can also be very frustrating to new people to the program who are trying to figure out what the real, hidden requirement is." Vagueness and flexibility (and hidden requirements, as well) aren't really what we need all the time. Then, if anyone tries to define what is reasonable, they're accused of adding to the requirements. Establish a reasonable "guideline", publish it so that everyone knows what they will be judged against, and be prepared to modify it, if shown the special circumstances warranting it. I know to many that is not going to be a popular statement but it's my opinion. Establishing guidelines so that all may be judged equally is not a bad thing! The lack of communicating what they are, is!!! (This message has been edited by NE-IV-88-Beaver)

And the truly sad part is that, due to their inadequacy at National, a number of Scouts have aged out every day between January 1st, 2010 and xxxxxxxxxx (Lord knows when, but hopefully before December 31st, 2010), without ever having been able to take advantage of what was supposed to be a memorable program!!!

And the truly sad part is that, due to their inadequacy at National, a number of Scouts have aged out every day between January 1st, 2010 and xxxxxxxxxx (Lord knows when, but hopefully before December 31st, 2010), without ever having been able to take advantage of what was supposed to be a memorable program!!!

Ask whoever told you that to please show it to you from an official source in writing!(This message has been edited by NE-IV-88-Beaver)

"How he deals with this after wards will be a better indication of his true character." But since this Scout is almost 18 at this point, is there time to see how well he rehabilitates himself and learns from his mistakes? There is too little information provided to really be of any help. This would be a much easier call if we were talking about a youth who had a minor scrape with the law at 14, served some detention, became engaged with the Scout program and truly showed evidence of rehabilitation. In MHO, that would not be a problem as this youth could be considered a role model to some, evidence of how the Scout turned himself around and grew within the program. With the situation, as you described it, I would find it hard to award this young man the Eagle award, making him a role model for the younger members of his troop. Others may say that it may help him in his personal development but I don't believe that is the purpose for awarding the highest honor in the Boy scout program, establishing a standard that all other Eagle Scouts will be judged by.

What "Common Sense Flexibility"? If he's not in jail and still on the charter, he's active! That's just stupid!!

I wonder if someone from those public schools who chartered units ever asked, "After we start this unit, will it be okay if Atheists join?" Probably not and since BSA didn't hide it's beliefs, whose problem does that make it? I agree, this whole subject is really tiring! Look how many threads are open right now on the subject! Poor Merlyn probably can't anything else done, too busy just keeping up with the Forum.