Narraticong

"Tolerance" can sometimes be a lack of personal committment. The "I'm OK, You're OK" attitude is just that. By human nature we are weak and can not live up to our alleged (particularly Christian) beliefs. So, it becomes easier to "change" our religion to be more tolerant. If you do not have the strength or desire to live by the standards of your religion, then either get another one, or have none at all. That would be something I would respect you for. We have become afraid that by standing firm in what we believe is right, we might hurt someone else's feelings. What some people today perceive as "tolerance" is in actuality a demand for "acceptance". In America, you have an obligation to "tolerate" my conservative Christian beliefs and my right to practice and espouse them. But you do not have to "accept" them as being valid, or correct. In turn, I will "tolerate" the rights of liberal Americans to believe whatever they wish. But I am in no way obligated to "accept" them as being valid, or correct.

Be careful, Concerned. You may not be seeing the whole picture. The Scoutmaster who has a boy in the troop is in a difficult position. He has to be both Dad and Leader. I know, because that is me. My son (like all boys) has his difficult times. You may not think the Scoutmaster is dealing with the boy, but you don't see or hear what goes on during the ride home! Your Scoutmaster may (and probably is) be dealing with it. Try helping him out. When you see inappropriate action, step in. Many times a boy will respond quicker to another leader than he does to his own Dad. I know I have asked the leaders in my troop to do just that. I want them to treat my boy no different than any other. If he is misbehaving, take action. As a matter of fact I had that happen this weekend with my son. He acted up several times and was disrespectful to another leader. I dealt with the inappropriate action (quietly but directly, as a father should). The leader who was disrespected asked me if it was OK to confront my son. I thanked him and gave him my full blessing to do so. And he did. Being the Committee Chairman, I imagine you are in the same position if you have a boy in the troop. The Scoutmaster should support you. I know I have dealt with other leaders sons when they were acting up or bullying. And I am confident the issue was dealt with privately at home. It is also very difficult to be the son of the Scoutmaster. You are always expected to be the perfect Scout. Maybe cut him some slack. He's probably asked to do more than ever would be expected of the average Scout. The SM's son is always there, at every event. He's the one who comes early and helps set up and lugs his Dad's stuff to the meeting. No, the Scoutmaster's son (like preachers kids) often has his own issues and is hardly perfect. But he's probably one of the best Scouts in your troop, if he's like my son. And the "his way or the highway" attitude may just be because he is right. I can't tell you how many times I have made a decision along with the other leaders only to have it later questioned by my son. When I talked it over with him and really thought about it, he was right. But sometimes we adults don't like to be second guessed by kids. And just who owns the highway anyway? It sure isn't the adult leaders! So, be careful with your accusations and consider all possibilties. Sit down with your Scoutmaster and talk it out. If he's worth his salt, he won't get defensive, he'll listen. You might just hear some of the considerations I've brought up.

Interesting discussion... I think OGE put it best in a way those of us with simple faith can understand. God created us all with Free Will. Yes, He knows every detail of everything that will ever happen. The term is omniscient (all knowing). But that darned old Free Will lets us make the call. And sometimes we mess it up despite our pleas to the Lord. The Lord does ALWAYS answer our prayers. The problem lies in the fact that we don't always hear back what we think we should hear. Sometimes the answer is very quiet and very subtle. If we do not hear it, it is ALWAYS because we are not paying attention. And yes, "Gott mit uns" is true. God is with our enemies just as he is with us. They too, are his Creation. He loves them dearly. But he is gravely disappointed with their sins just as he is with ours. It is only because of the Son that the Father does not see those sins and considers our slate clean. No, I don't think God takes sides in any conflict. I don't think he cares really what happens to any man-created nation. I think he cares only what is in the heart of each and every one of his children.

No, don't take away sarcasm! The aformentioned sarcasm was well said. In our nearly 40 year journey into kinder and gentler Scouting, many of the fun activites which kept more than a few of us interested in Scouting as boys have gone by the wayside. Life comes with risks. But in a controlled environment, tomahawk throwing (it's OK with me if you call it axe throwing) and knife throwing can be great fun. My twelve year old son has been throwing since he was eight. He learned it as part of his martial arts training. He also has a closet full of razor sharp samurai swords. He has never hurt anyone and won't even take them out unless properly supervised. Someone took the time to proerly teach him. When we go camping, my son is around knives and axes constantly. At first I was interested in how he would differentiate between his Scout tools and his martial arts tools. Well, there is absolutely no problem. He sees them as totally different, each having it's own purpose, time, and place. Axe throwing is great fun. He and I did it together at Philmont this summer, and at a Council Camporee last Spring. But neither one of us would ever consider throwing our Scout tools. That would not be safe, right, or prudent. By dumbing down Scouts as we have since the 1970's we have done a great dis-service to our boys. They easily learn right from wrong and will use good judgment if we just teach them and then set the expectations.

CONGRATULATIONS!!! You said the secret word- FUN!!! You can do all the badges in the book, but if it's not fun, you will lose the boys. A few years ago when I was a Tiger Den leader and all the way through Bears, I thought Advancement was the goal. Well, it may have been for me...but if I had been listening to my son, I would have heard him telling me how boring the meetings were. By Webelos I started to figure it out. Make the meetings and outings fun and everything else will fall in place. We now have a year old Scout troop with those same boys. And we are growing steadily because they are bringing friends in. We still focus on having fun. Kids have lots of options to choose from today. Scouting offers a strong outdoor program they by nature are drawn to. Make it fun, and you'll have a successful unit!

We did a door to door blitz Saturday with 10 boys. We sold about $900 in five hours of selling. Another $100 at a car show the next day. First time doing door to door for our troop. We delivered popcorn upon purchase. This seemed to work well, better than show and sells last year. We have a goal of $375 in sales per boy. It looks like we will make it on an average.

Shortridge, I agree with your comment- "But I have definite objections to unqualified counselors teaching edible plant identification, which would be central to such a program." I don't have the merit badge requirements in front of me, but it seems that one of the last requirements is to explain why consuming wild plants and animals is generally not a good idea. Sounds more like a bit of legalese to protect the BSA from lawsuits generated from poor counseling or poor learning! Having earned the badge in the 70's I know that we can survive a long time without food. But if we are really mastering survival, shouldn't we learn how to survive for more than a few days? Particularly in cold weather, stoking the furnace can be vital to survival.

While our summer camp experience was generally outstanding, I did observe this one weakness. I thought it unusual for Space Exploration to be offered at camp. But I thought maybe there was a Scouter on staff with a particular interest in this area. If that's the case, then great! My first-time-at-summer camp son loves anything to do with Space and signed up. Turns out the "Counselor" was a 16 year old staffer with no experience in the area whatsoever. He was assigned to be the Counselor, and the Area Director signed off on the Blue Card. I have to say the staffer did ensure that my son completed all requirements, including the pre-requisites. All was done correctly. What was lacking was for my son to have the experience of working with someone who is an expert in the field. I think that is a very import part of the Merit Badge process. Otherwise, why not just let us Scoutmasters be Universal Counselors? It's all part of the marketing for camps to offer as many badges as possible. But I think they do a dis-service to the boy and to the program.

DAC fees are set at $1,500 for Jamboree. Seeing what others are posting here, that seems pretty reasonable. I know troop leaders have been assigned and are already meeting. Impressive so far!

LisaBob- Detroit Area Council seems to be very organized for Jamboree. Troops and leadership have already been organized. We turned in my son's application about two weeks ago and quickly received confirmation. As soon as $100 was turned in we began receiving communications. We already have received payment coupons for the balance and our next step is to determine which troop he would like to be in. It's our first experience with Jamboree but at least for Detroit Area Council, the process seems to be well organized.

The man being referred to was not a "Scouter", but a District Executive. There is often a very big difference between volunteers and professionals. Most long term, well trained volunteers are committed to the ideals of Scouting. They are the ones who understand why this was wrong even if the boys did not notice. On the other hand the committment of professionals to the ideals of Scouting is sometimes questionable. Many work for BSA because they want a career working with kids or with non-profit organizations. BSA is often no more than a career stop. Many I have seen lately have no background in Scouting whatsoever. If we have been lucky and diligent, our young DE will begin to understand and accept our ideals. Just as boys have to learn the ways of Scouting, so do our young DE's. That's where those of us volunteers who do "get it" can help them. Don't run to his boss complaining. Buy him a cup of coffee and sit down with the Scout Handbook and explain things. If he's smart and the right guy for your District, he'll thank you. If not, he'll hopefully be moving on soon enough.

One of the best definitions of "Trustworthy" I have ever seen is this: TRUSTWORTHY MEANS DOING THE RIGHT THING WHEN NOBODY ELSE IS LOOKING. You see, it is as simple as that. Yes, Scouts have an ethics base that goes back a long way. Earlier than the 1950's even. Maybe as far back as that fellow Moses? The 10 Commandments are still good "guidelines" as are the 12 Points of the Scout Law. They'll do for me...

Lots of good information provided here! I'll try to add a little more. I am the Scoutmaster of a troop which started in June of 2007. We basically took a Webelos 2 Den of five boys and created a troop. Normally the boys would cross over in February, but we opted to stay with the pack until June. This enabled us to spend our "spare" time setting up the troop. Chartering was the easy part. Lots of help from fellow Scouters and professionals. Remember, new units are like gold to DE's! The part that really took legwork was equipping the troop for activities. Yes, much came from my pocket at first. Look to places like Alps Mountaineering for generous deals on good tents. Various units around our District were very generous. Our young troop was quickly the receipient of much second hand camping gear, including a trailer. Scouts are always happy to help. And unfortunately, for every new troop, it seems one is downsizing or folding. With no older boys, boy leadership was tough during the first year. I spent much time ascting as "Patrol Leader- XL". But bit by bit, they have come around to understanding what the leadership positions mean. This fall we are holding our first real Junior Leader Training. We did not attend summer camp that first summer. By the time camp came around this year, we were well prepared. We had two older boys transfer in. One is a Life Scout just two merit badges away from Eagle. We also had six Webelos cross over from two different packs. Two of our boys served as Den Chiefs. We invited Webelos to "fun nights". We worked hard at recruiting. At camp this summer, all of our young Scouts advanced generally two ranks. Most earned at least two merit badges. The troop earned Honor Troop Status (one of four troops out of 15 in camp). They earned a special commendation from the Camp Director. This fall we have all 14 boys returning and two new boys who were recruited by last year's crossovers. That's a sure thing things are going well. Yes, the adults are dedicated and we work hard. We focus more and more on boy leadership. But the best advice I can give you is to make it FUN! The boys have many options on how to spend their time. But all boys love adventure and the outdoors. If you can offer that, and make it fun, they will gladly join. Just say "FOLLOW ME BOYS!".

I did the same thing last night, LaurieBear! There was no way my hand was going to fit in that pocket due to the "pencil pocket". I was able to sew my Scoutmaster patch on to the sleeve pocket. What a pain!

A topic in another section dealt with a young man approaching his Eagle BOR, but concerned with his drug related felony. From his postings it seemed he was sorry for his deeds. But research by some among us showed that was perhaps not the case. Like many others who wear the Eagle, my first thought was that he did not deserve to be one of us. But then I considered my own failings. Alcohol, partying, many times I broke my oath as a young adult. Luckily, I never acquired a police record, although I probably deserved it. By the time I turned 30, I straightened up, married, and became a boring suburban Dad. One beer a month, church every Sunday, Scoutmaster, the whole bit. But do I deserve to wear the red, white and blue knot? I have not always lived up to the obligation that comes with the Eagle Charge. Yes, for the past 20 years I have been straight as an arrow. But my past reminds me that there is always hope and that we should not give up on anyone. If God does not quit on us, why should we quit on each other? As Scout leaders, we need to really get to know our boys. There should be signs that a boy is heading in the wrong direction. We need to have the love and strength to take action rather than turn our head and pretend it isn't happening. "I once was lost, but now am found, was blind, but now I see"- those words ring very true in my life.

Hmmmm. I usually think of "A Scout is Reverent" when I consider faith and Scouting. But then there is "Duty to God"- big "G" not little "g". So what does that mean? I am not asking how does BSA interpret it so to be politically correct and inclusive of all religions. But using the "reasonable man", approach, I think it may bring us back to a Jewish / Christian / Muslim perspective. Do other "religions" refer to their deity as "God"? What did the founders of Scouting intend? I must admit I am not enough of a Scouting history buff to know exactly. I may have to reconsider my thoughts on inclusiveness...

I think we all agree it is "required" of a youth to believe in a higher power. Then is the only "test" of that his positive response? If so, why waste time talking about faith at BOR? As an organization, me make a big deal out of "A Scout is Reverent", but we are absolutely non-committal in what that means. Why are Wiccans not approved? By our own standard, they are as valid as my own Lutheranism. It matters not what he believes in, only that he believes in something beyond himself. Maybe rather than making it a requirement at all, we should just "encourage" reverence. That would be much easier and more accurately reflect the policy we have in action.

Back in my wise-guy, teenage years, it stood for "We Want Women". I don't remember that we ever had success...

Perhaps the Wiccans and their Scouts need to get together and develop an award if they feel a need for one. Same with any other "religious" group. BSA has an obligation to recognize any and all belief systems as being viable if a Scout claims it as his own. In America, it is surely not our place to tell someone whether they have a "viable" religion or not. The idea of the "Option A" or "Option B" for Boy Scouts is not only reasonable but long past due. Maybe at the First Class level. BY then a boy should be able to articulate his beliefs. I'm 100% in agreement with having a Boy Scout requirement.

Both of our Den Chiefs were proudly wearing their Den Chief Achievment Award cords at their Scoutmaster's Conference and Board of Review Tuesday night. They both earned First Class. Neither of these boys are super-achievers, just "good Scouts". They are not afraid to take on challenges. At summer camp, one of our DC's (also the current SPL of our young troop) was the only 12 year old to complete mile swim. As Scoutmaster, I have a hard time telling a boy "no" when he wants to try something. I may think he is going too far out on a limb, but he will never find that true sense of achievement if he stays in the safe zone. By letting the boys fail, the victories become sweeter. In a sense of full disclosure...I'm proud to report that one of the boys is my own son (not the SPL / Mile Swimmer)!

I can speak on this situation from a current, real world perspective. A year ago, having just created a new Scout Troop from a Webelos Den, I still had a very close relationship with the Pack. I had always wished we had Den Chiefs for our dens, but it just never happened. One of the first things I did was offer our Scouts as Den Chiefs to the Pack. The leadership jumped at the idea. With less than three months experience and holding the lofty rank o "Scout", two of our boys became Den Chiefs. One took on a Wolf Den of 12 boys. The other a Webelos 1 Den of 4 boys. I met with both Den Leaders to review expectations. It was understood that the boys were there for a mutually rewarding experience. The Den would have an "older" boy to help out the leader. The Den Chief would gain valuable leadership experience. Both leaders understood that they were making an investment. That investment included a little hands on training with the Den Chief. Both boys quickly attended all day Den Chief training at University of Scouting. Both boys are leaders in the troop, with one finishing his term as SPL. Both have just earned First Class. Both are being welcomed back to their Dens for a second year as Den Chief. The boy with the now Webelos 2 Den will likely have all of the boys crossing over to the troop in a few months. The boy with the now Bear Den will likely stay with them all the way through- he REALLY likes being a Den Chief. So, it CAN work to have a brand new Scout become a Den Chief. The key is that the Troop Leadership and the Den Leader must have clear expectations and be willing to GROW a Den Chief. I think it may even be the best path. By the time a boy reaches First Class, other leadership opportunities start to pop up and it may not be "cool" to work with Cubs. If he starts out as a Den Chief early in his Scouting career, he may like it and stick with it. There are rarely one-size fits all answers to every situation. Think it through, talk it out and do what seems best. If it doesn't work out, Scouts is the place to fail without permanent consequences!

Having just been to PTC for the first time last week, I feel qualified on this one. It was about $700 for both my 12 year old son and I to attend. Well worth the money. No question. Case closed. The cost comes in transportation. Airfare, hotel, and rental car brought the total cost over $2,000. Still worth it? You bet. Both of us agree we'll go again as soon as possible. The cost could be problematic for some. But would your CO cover part of the cost? Is the portion directly related to the volunteer tax deductible? Probably. Like anything else, with some effort you can probably make it happen.

So we have now been back for two days. What a great place PTC is! All of the tips everyone passed along were very helpful. Drink lots of water. Lots of critters- including coyote serenades. I did find the food to be better than tolerable, and often very good. Menu seemed to be geared toward adults, but just about always were ok by my 12 year old son. Cobbler night at the tent city was outstanding! Conference on Lutheran Scouting was very informative and a great chance to pick brains with other Scouters. It was nice to meet John-in-KC in real life and now be able to place a face and personality with a name. It was a pleasure. Program for kids was outstanding. Drew will surely be on a full trek in the upcoming years. Hikes and overnights into the mountains were really a great selling point. If you go, bring extra bags for conference materials and souvenirs! There are tons of both. I would heartily recommend attending PTC to any Scouter and family. It is a well run, beautiful facilty and certainly rights high among my Scouting experiences.

OK, silly question... I have one of those "Indiana Jones" style Scout hats, not the Campaign Hat, but the more casual one. I was thinking of bringing that to get branded. But my wife suggested that the felt would likely burn. Yes? No? Take my chances? What are some other items people have gotten branded?

Cheerful service and promotion of camping have always been strong traditions in the OA. New Brothers quickly find that their fellow Scouts may have elected them for their past efforts, but the Ordeal quickly makes it clear that they will not rest upon their laurels! In Detroit Area Council, the Brothers of Migisi Opawgan Lodge 162 work tirelessly in maintaining our camps. Being an active ranch, D-Bar-A has miles of fence to be painted each year. Without the OA Brothers, this 1,700 acre camp could not be maintained. The Lodge also runs an annual Lincoln Pilgrimage outing for Cubs and other Scouts. Adults are brought into the OA not for what they have done in Scouts, but for what they have to offer to the Lodge and Scouts. So, much is expected of those who are selected. The young men I see in OA just seem to be reaching a whole different level of leadership. They learn to work with other Scouts and adults from the various chapters. Many of these young leaders are able to develop public speaking skills to a level they could not in their troop. Maybe I have just been lucky, but in 36 years of being a Brother, I have seen few who considered themselves elite. And those that do usually are the ones who get their flap and are never seen again. Unless you consider "he who has the dirtiest sash" as being elitist, sweat and dirt are not trademarks of the elite!