Narraticong

I'm not familiar with that ribbon, or just what program it might represent. But I have a neckerchief slide in my collection which sounds like it would match your description of the picture of GW with Scouts. It's of a brass-like metal. I'd guess that they had something to do with the 50th Anniversary.

Anyone with a backbone will continue to do the right thing. I'd rather deal with the potential bad consequences than have to live knowing I stood by and watched someone die when I could have helped. That's one of the cool things about Faith. I am comfortable that helping other people at all times is what God wants me to do.

I liked this thread a lot more before you guys started bickering. We do that enough in other threads. Lighten up, would ya? What cartoon character said "Penguins is practically chickens"?

I'm on board with the others that say get yourself and your boys outdoors. And that means more often than just your monthly hike or campout. Instill in your boys a love of Creation and a desire to be part of it. Way back in the early '70's, when my troop would go on hikes, our Scoutmaster would identify trees as we went along. I remember it as just being part of observing what was around us. He would show us an osage orange and its cool fruit, then maybe the difference between red and white oaks. It was all done just as part of the conversation, never as "instruction". We also often borrowed his field guides to look things up on our own. Some time later we might feel brave enough to pass the requirements. But that was in the day before 13 year old Eagles...and I think therein lies part of the problem today. We rush too much to Advance, rather than focusing on "learning". As with all Scouting requirements, I believe a simple tip is to think why the requirement exists. I think the identification requirements are there to instill that love of the outdoors. By using the internet, books, or museums, we can develop a boy who can identify things from the outdoors. But by taking him into the woods, we can develop a boy who desires to be out among the smells, sights, and sounds of Creation.

I always wondered about "The Joker" and even "Robin", but "The Penguin"? Say it isn't so, Batman!

I happen to find Beavah's quirky writing to be entertaining. Yes, at first I wondered what that was all about. Then I just decided that it didn't really matter. It's just "how he is". But I guess some people might find it annoying, though I guess that would make some of us more accepting people question their acceptance of "diversity". My guessing game has me concluding that Beavah may either be from the U.P. of my adopted state of Michigan, or perhaps Wisconsin or Minnesota. In any case I tend to find myself more often aligned with him rather than those "easterners". I grew up in NJ and did my Scouting 5 minutes from National Headquarters in the 70's. But you could not pay me enough money to move back there. That place is plain crazy! Yah, maybe if we all start talkin like dat, we'll really make da "east coasters" crazy. Or crazier than dey already are! Keep it up Beavah!(This message has been edited by Narraticong)

Welcome to Cubs Kyle! I would suggest that diversity comes in many "colors" other than the color of our skin. I think sometimes we tend to focus on the obvious. Diversity also comes in the "color" of socio-economic differences, religious differences, family makeup, etc. If you look at your pack in those terms, you may find a great deal of diversity already. Do you have boys with learning disabilities? Boys from single parent homes? Boys with unemployed parents? Boys from different religious backgrounds, or no religious background at all? I'll bet we can all answer yes to some of those questions. If you choose to particularly focus on color, you must first ask why that is an issue in your pack. Are other units in your area diverse? Are there units in your area made up primarily of "scouts of color"? Find the answers to those questions. My son's pack was from a relatively diverse school in terms of ethnicity. In my years as a Den Leader, we never once talked about recruiting by that factor. But we always had a "diverse" group. It seems that when we did "boy talks" in the classrooms, boys of all backgrounds tended to get excited about the things we did. In other words, run a top notch program and you will have all kinds of boys. Genuinely welcome every boy and his family. Find every parent something to do. If you are inclusive, everyone will feel welcome. Apply the "Golden Rule" to everyone and you will find all types of kids joining your group. I think it is important to remember that we are all part of the "Boy" Scouts of America. Boys of different backgrounds are more alike than they are different.

So, let's say the City of Philadelphia is lawfully terminating the lease. In essence they are saying the Boy Scouts are undesireable persons within their city. I suppose they have a right to do that. On the other hand, nobody should be surprised if BSA pulls up stakes and no longer allows a chartered unit within the city limits. How much money does the council pour into serving urban youth? How much effort is expended by professionals and volunteers to bring the best youth program available to those urban youth? There are many old units chartered to churches, schools, and civic organizations within our core cities. How will the pastors, principals, and civic leaders respond when their neighborhood boys no longer have the only positive organization available to them? I'll suggest that there is no organization around that will be able to take up the slack. Not Boys and Girls Clubs, not PAL, not anybody. And can we count on those who so eagerly await the downfall of BSA to step up. They have not yet done so. If so many people are against the BSA's discrimination policy, where is our replacement? Hello....is anybody out there? How many years ago was the Dale decision? How many new organizations are out there replacing us? None. So, kick us out if you wish. But be careful what you wish for...

Merlyn, can you give me some examples of churches who have lost tax exempt status due to becoming too involved politically? We always hear about this but I honestly can't recall any instances. The good Reverend Wright in Chicago does not seem to be in any danger of losing his status. Numerous other urban churches openly endorsed Mr. Obama with little apparent consequence.

I do not have experience with that particular backpack. But for the past several years I have bought as much ALPS gear as I can. The Taurus tents have withstood some pretty good storms with no water inside. The sleeping bags keep everyone warm to the rated temperature. While their gear may not be high tech, or ultralight, it does what they say it will do. And it does it at a price Scouts can afford through www.scoutdirect.com. I can not say enough about ALPS and everyone that works there. They are family run and everybody understands customer service. I would be comfortable buying any of their gear!

In our young troop sign off is done almost exclusively by the boys. Patrol Leader either does the testing himself or designates another Scout who has the knowledge. My experience is that the boys are often tougher than the adults as far as making sure the requirement is met. In my mind that means the boys take it seriously. If we are to have boy leaders, then they are the ones that should handle advancement. If it were up to me, the Board of Review would be made up of two Scouts and the Committee Chairman.

At this time of year I am always most thankful for the many blessings the Lord has provided for me. I have a loving family, a job, and a home. Thanksgiving week every year our church houses 35 homeless people. This year we have a full load of men. All ages, but more young men than usual. Some are recent vets. Every year I am reminded that they are no different than me, with the exception of a bad decision or bad luck they couldn't beat. Not the hardcore homeless, but guys who have been deemd to be likely to find their way back into society. We share meals every night and some fellowship later on. Some short term but unforgettable friendships are made. Our Scout troop is providing dinner tonight. The boys will be there in uniform serving the food. They will each then take a plate and have dinner with our guests. It has become much more than your average service project. To sit down and share a meal and conversation is a very personal contact. The last couple of years have been great eye openers for the boys. I think they look on the "least of these" with different eyes. For that too, I am also grateful. Happy Thanksgiving!

Best wishes with the new troop! I am well into year two of the same journey. It is sometimes rocky and often tiring. There will be times you consider why you are doing it. But trust that your answers will come as you watch "your boys" grow into young men. The Bible tells us that God will put before us "good works" to be done. I believe that working with boys as we do is what God has chosen for many of us. I often find myself praying that what I do in Scouting will be God pleasing. And sometimes, I can feel in a very real manner, that He is smiling down on us. Keep up the good work!

Nicely played and well put SMT224! You can probably tell this guy has been really getting to me. I am not an old seasoned Scoutmaster like many of you on this forum. But in my fifty years, many of the men I have most admired have been Scout leaders. Our organization is not perfect, and we need to continue refining it if we want to stay meaningful. But I know that I have met many "Lems" in my time. Not every one is as successful as in the movie. But they all do what they do for one purpose- the boys. Scouting has had such a profound effect on my life that I have chosen to dedicate most of my free time to the program. There is much left undone around my house that my wife would like to see done. But I am lucky to be married to a woman who sees the smile on my heart when I talk about "my boys". The cool thing is that I know that any one of my fellow scouters on this forum could say the same words. We care about them. And for many boys today, we can really make a difference. That's not a self pat on the back, just a fair observation of the results of being a Scout. Since the 1970's when it became no longer "cool" to be a Scout, BSA has taken shots from every corner. And we have sat back and taken them politely. Well, it's time to stop. Now more than ever, Scouting is the program that our boys need. If we are ever to turn around the mess our country has gotten into, we must build men who are capable of the task. Our challenger "LEM" made excuses for why he could not tell us what he personally does for boys. That's like so many of our naysayers through the years. Lots of theories and opinions, but no effort and results. Jump in and help us and if you are really a worker, you will be welcomed as a brother. But start knocking BSA and my boys and I'll start pushing back.

I don't have any long haired inarticulate youth in my troop, but thanks for the advice just in case I ever do. On the other hand, I do have a long haired, very articulate youth who will earn his Eagle within the next several months. When not in uniform he even wears those jeans that sag half way down his butt. He plays in a rock band! He is an "all A's" high school senior enrolled in an advanced high school program. He already has many college credits. He is a piano virtuoso and teaches my son piano and music theory. He comes from a Christian family and regularly goes to church. For his Eagle project he accomplished the painting of a run down soup kitchen in the heart of Detroit. Every time he sees me he says "Hello Mr. Ken" and shakes my hand. He will have a free ride to any college he chooses. I could not ask for a better Junior Leader. Most of my boys are 12 or 13 years old. He is 17. He is like the Pied Piper. The boys flock to him and listen intently to every word. Don't know if he has any tatoos and I don't see any piercings. Don't really care. But LEM, I bet you could whip that boy into shape. But I don't think you are up to his standards. You see, we still have not heard how you have advanced the cause by helping our youth.(This message has been edited by Narraticong)

President Obama is making jillions on a book and he has not accomplished anything of substance in his entire political career. Bill Clinton is making bajillions (even more than jillions) speaking and writing books. And he single handedly did the most of any president (even Nixon) to bring disrespect on the office of President. It's all about the money!

I was only five years old, but I do remember much of what happened those weeks. Their were many people who didn't like Mr. Kennedy, but it seems back then they still respected his office. We seem to have lost so much stature in the world today. And I think it is because we have lost so much respect for ourselves. We no longer respect the Office of the President. We regularly mock him, no matter who it is. Candidates themselves go on TV and participate in the mockery. It is difficult lesson I have been trying to teach my kids. You can dislike the man and who he is and what he stands for. But we must still respect the position he holds.

Hezbollah is considered by the US and many other countries to be a terrorist organization. They have direct ties to many other terrorist organizations. One of their close ties was responsible for the bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon. I guess that was not your unit SctDad. Hezbollah's leaders were inspired by the Ayatollah Khomeini. They get financial support from both Iran and Syria. Their goal is still the complete annihalation of Israel. But you are right, Beavah, they have gotten smarter. While they bomb Israel during the night, they are building homes and schools in Lebanon during the day. They are starting "scout troops". They have become an integral part of the government. They are smart to gain social legitamacy. But nonetheless, when you peel away the layers, they are a terrorist organization at heart. I live in the Detroit area, SctDad. I have learned a lot about Muslims and Arabs. There are both Chaldean churches and Muslim mosques in my neighborhood. I am currently working to include that mosque in our Scout Walk with God next year. I would suggest you be careful of your accusations. I don't really care what god (if any) a terrorist worships. But if he is killing my friends, he is my enemy. And you see, I have done my research. Hezbollah was, is, and will continue to be a terrorist organization. No matter how many "scout troops" they sponsor, no matter how many schools they build. It surely is all toward one purpose. And that purpose is evil.

I like to wear my uniform and do so whenever I get a chance. I am proud of what Scouting means to me. But I guess I take a little different direction with the boys, and I think it is working. When we go on District Camporees or other events where Scouts will be present, we wear our uniforms. Wednesday night we will be preparing dinner for some homeless people at our church. Again, it's good to show people we are Scouts. We went camping this weekend. Nobody else around. Just the troop. Nothing was said about uniforms. I, too, wore more comfortable clothes in the cold Michigan woods. But the boys still knew we are Scouts, they still acted as Scouts. The uniform reinforces the ideals, but does not cause the boys to embrace them. But the program does. My 7th grader son wore his red Jac-shirt all weekend at camp. It smells like smoke right now. But guess what he said he is wearing to school today? His high school age sister said, "Why do you want to wear that?" His answer was that it was "cool". It's bright red, wool, has a Philmont Bull and a Scout emblem on the pocket. It screams "Boy Scout". Not often considered "cool". But today, he's pretty proud of being a Scout. He just survided two nights in a tent below 15 degrees. None of his non-Scout friends at school can claim that. So I guess I'm learning. Give them a program that makes them proud, and they'll proudly wear the uniform.

I was a Scout form 1969 through 1976 and earned Eagle in '76. We called my Scoutmaster "Mac", kinda like "Lem". I don't think I ever called him "Mr.". But I've never had any more respect for any more man I have ever known. Mac became a Scoutmaster in 1935 and continued on into the early 1990's. He was I suppose, the "Lem" of Central New Jersey. We had boys of all types in our troop. Including boys with all kinds of problems who apparently came from some kind of "boys home". But Mac liked them and thought they were worthy to be Scouts, so, so did we boys. Scouting was changing a lot during that time. Mac kept us focused on what Scouting was always meant to be. We advanced by the requirements, but more time was spent learning about the outdoors. I think we became better men because of it. Mac lived a life dedicated to God and everybody new it. But his was a gentle faith lived by example. My Scouting experience during the 70's had more influence than anything else in my life. Thirty years later I am a Scoutmaster. Every day I try to model my troop and my ways on that old Scoutmaster. Every day I wish he were here to give me advice when I need it. No, I'm not "Lem". But I'm trying.

Just back yesterday afternoon from a weekend in tents in the cold Michigan woods. Down near 10 degrees Saturday night. Ten boys and five adults went. None of the boys are more than 13 years old. The boys did great. No whining about the cold, no crying, no "I wanna go home". Instead, they took a five mile hike on their own with no adults. They went horseback riding. They went exploring in the snow covered woods. They did the cooking, not the adults. These young men were outstanding in those cold circumstances. They left the woods yesterday with a whole lot more self confidence than they started with. And I guarantee that will carry over into everything they do. It will set them apart from the video game playing couch potatoes at school. My own son is proudly wearing his smokey smelling red wool Jac-shirt to school today. You know, the one with a Philmont Bull and the Scout Symbol on the pocket. Afraid to say he's a Scout? Apparently not. Every outing like this brings these boys closer to being the kind of men this country needs. Are they perfect? You gotta be kidding. Sometimes they are lazy, and sometimes they are disrespectful. But LEM, if you ever dare compare one of MY boys to a horse that needs to go to a glue factory, you'll have a fight on your hands. I have tremendous respect and love for each and every one of them. And you get what you give. Sure, the boys call me Mr. Ken. They know that is our tradiion. But they know they are likely to have a question answered with a "yes, sir" from me. Respect is a courtesy for all because we care about each other. Not out of fear. We have heard LEM whine and fuss about us for days now. Many of us have spoken about how Scouting is still a valuable and viable program. We have talked about our love for the boys and our willingness to put untold hours into this program. I guess it might be fair to ask LEM just what he has done to help solve the many problems he sees with young people today? What have been your efforts and personal results?

I love to joke here as much as anybody. But i'll just remind everyone that someday soon those young people will be strapping on explosives and will be looking for you, me, and our allies around the world. In the end, this is not really funny. Our own sons are being killed by people like this.

SSScout- try Decaf at night! By the way, I thought I was the only one who remembers that song!

Perhaps in the interest of helping LEM see the light, each of us Scoutmasters should take off our dirty, sweaty, worn out hiking boots. Mine are size 10 1/2. Lem can have a choice of which pair to walk a mile in. Maybe if he's lucky he will find a pair that fits him just right. But I think perhaps they will all be a little too big. If they are too big, he can buy a pair that fits for now. As he puts a few miles on his own pair, he just might find that they start to feel good. He might find that every scar on those boots mean he has spent valuable time helping boys. He might find that those boots call out to him from the closet, wanting to go on another outing. Their voice will be the combined voices of the millions of boys who have passed through Scouting. My "ideal" of Lem (the one from the movie) is Rockwell's painting "The Scoutmaster". Most of you "insiders" will know that one. Have I ever stood outside by the campfire in the middle of the night in full uniform looking over my boys? No, not exactly like in the painting. But the painting represents what is in my heart. Walk in our shoes before you tell us what does or doesn't work.

OK LEM, you have lots of folks now in two threads, telling you that Scouting can still be vital and exciting for boys. Yet here you are still whining. You are right, "ideal" is just a dream, it is not going to happen today. It didn't happen in the 1950's or 1960's either. I'll tell you a secret. I knew some boys who posed for Norman Rockwell Scouting Calendars and paintings. The paintings were beautiful. But they were no more than an artist's idea of an "ideal". The troop those boys came from was no better and no worse than my troop today. As long as there are boys and as long as their are leaders who care, Lem lives on in this program. He is as alive and vital as ever. Your boys will only get out of it what you put into it. Plain and simple. You can sit on the sidelines and dream, or you can get off your butt and do. Your choice...