mtm25653

"a gaggle of Yellow Blouses divided us into Patrol-sized groups (they were careful not to call them Patrols). They then handed out colored construction paper, school paste, and those little toy scissors with the rounded ends." Since someone complained/commented that no women had responded, I'll give it a try. I wore a yellow blouse for my first 2 years, when I was Tiger Group Coach (before there were Tiger Den Leaders). But as I've moved on to other positions (Pack Committee Chair, Webelos Den Leader, Troop Committee, Cub Roundtable Commissioner, District Training Team, and now again Pack Committee Chair), I've moved into the tan shirt. I've taken Outdoor Webelos Leader training, Outdoor Leader Skills, 21st Century Wood Badge, and in 2 weeks I'll be on staff for OLS. I don't pretend to be the most skilled leader in the troop, since we have a wealth of leaders who have extensive outdoor experince. That's part of why I've stayed mostly with cubs. But where do most boy scouts come from? Cub scouts. Do you want new boy scouts who are comfortable in the woods, who know basic knife, fire and knot skills? I'll give them to you. I took the first class of the new Wood Badge in my council. We had patrols (I'm a Bear) and we didn't do anything with "colored construction paper, school paste, and those little toy scissors with the rounded ends." We learned/reviewed some outdoor skills and I camped and cooked with my patrol. We also learned a lot about leadership. Isn't that one of the things we are trying to develop in our scouts? I know I used things I learned in Wood Badge when I talked to my youngest son about his struggles as SPL. And now when he is a Troop Guide, it's even harder - he has to learn to influence where he has little direct authority - sounds like leadership skills to me, just like I learned in Wood Badge. To comment on the main topic of this thread - what would scouting be like if it started today. I think about the things my 3 sons have wanted from scouting, and would want from a new organization: * to learn to be men from good men (I can't teach them to be men) * to be outdoors and to challenge themselves by doing difficult things like backpacking and long distance canoeing and rock climbing * to learn neat skills, that other kids in school don't know, like glass-blowing (maybe that could be a new merit badge) and blacksmithing, and rifle and shotgun shooting and how to survive in the wild with no equipment (sounds like wilderness survival) and cooking over an open fire. My boys are as wired as any kids their age, but they turn off the electronics sometimes, and go outside to walk or chop wood or play sports, because they need that physical sensation, that challenge to see what their bodies can do. A lot of boys today don't have that opportunity, and maybe that's the source of a lot of our problems. Yes, if B-P started scouting today to meet the needs and interests of boys like my boys, it would be a lot like today - learning skills and developing leadership. Learning to be good men.

"What kind of message does it send the the cubs if you only camp in fair weather?" It sends the message is that these are cub scouts, not boy scouts. They and their parents are just learning about camping and outdoor skills. We don't expect cub families to have the full range of camping equipment, and many parents have no experience camping. I encourange experienced cub scout campers (family who regularly camp, Webelos who have been in the pack and camped for 3 or 4 years) to camp when it's colder or wet, but it is always ok to just come for the day. Most boy scouts I know (and that is a lot - I have had at least one son as a boy scout for 14 years) have to gradually accumulate camping equipment. Their family probably had a family tent when they were cubs, but many of these are not very waterproof, have very large vents and very small flys - not appropriate for cold or wet camping. Most started with "camp" sleeping bags (rectangular and big and maybe not very warm) as cubs or new scouts and eventually get the smaller, warmer backpacking mummy bags. Now Boy Scout troops, they camp in any weather, and my sons' troop has - snow, rain, cold. But even there, some younger boys may not be ready, and may not have the equipment, to handle the more extreme weather. But they learn.

"What kind of message does it send the the cubs if you only camp in fair weather?" It sends the message is that these are cub scouts, not boy scouts. They and their parents are just learning about camping and outdoor skills. We don't expect cub families to have the full range of camping equipment, and many parents have no experience camping. I encourange experienced cub scout campers (family who regularly camp, Webelos who have been in the pack and camped for 3 or 4 years) to camp when it's colder or wet, but it is always ok to just come for the day. Most boy scouts I know (and that is a lot - I have had at least one son as a boy scout for 14 years) have to gradually accumulate camping equipment. Their family probably had a family tent when they were cubs, but many of these are not very waterproof, have very large vents and very small flys - not appropriate for cold or wet camping. Most started with "camp" sleeping bags (rectangular and big and maybe not very warm) as cubs or new scouts and eventually get the smaller, warmer backpacking mummy bags. Now Boy Scout troops, they camp in any weather, and my sons' troop has - snow, rain, cold. But even there, some younger boys may not be ready, and may not have the equipment, to handle the more extreme weather. But they learn.

Our troop would use this as an opportunity for growth. We have a 17 yo Life scout who had similar beliefs for the last few years. The SM took the opportunity to talk with him at SM conferences about his beliefs. The SM also looks at scouting to some extent as a ministry, letting boys see good role models of religious belief (FYI, our troop has Protestant, Catholic, Jewish and Moslems boys and leaders.) Over time, something clicked - I haven't talk with him myself, but he is now working on his Eagle project, something the SM would not have allowed if he still did not have a belief in God.

Pack has a booth at the local university football stadium - stadium management provides food, etc., we provide manpower. Nets $600-900 per football game 6-7 games a year(better when the team is better). The Pack shares a game with 2 troops (and may share a game with the new pack nearby). We've had the booth for 10 yrs - difficult to get one (we had an in, committee chair was wife of manager at stadium). Another troop sells drinks walking through the stands. Troop has done a ham sale last 2 years for Christmas - barbecue hams and boston butts overnight - presell tickets. Net ~$750 a year.

We had a cold (nighttime temps in mid 30s) cub campout this weekend in NC. Our brand new Pack has about 30 boys, 14 who transferred over from a nearby Pack. We chose to camp at a nearby state park (5 minutes from my house), instead of going to the district event 90 minutes away so that families had the easy option of coming for the day or going home to get stuff they forgot/realized they needed. We sent out an email on Thursday warning of the cold weather, and including a list of tips, like dress in layers, bring hats and gloves/mittens, and don't sleep in the clothes you've worn all day. We made it clear that it was fine to come for the day or to campout. We had 8 Webelos and younger brothers Fri night, 20+ during the day Sat (including trick or treating and a campfire), and 8 (not all the same ones) Sat night. All but two of the camping families included Webelos, one was a Bear with camping experience. The last was a Tiger, with ASM granddad's gear. I was the only one who had problems with the cold - claustraphobia from my mummy bag led me to sleep in the car. Our district always has a cub camping event (same weekend, same site as the boy scouts, separate program, shared campfire) in Oct. Sometimes its in the 80s, sometimes in the 30s-40s. We trust the leaders and the parents to do what is right for their families, and only camp if they are prepared. There is never the expectation that you have to camp, or you have to stay if the weather turns.

It's not early if you give the AOL when the boy earns it. I'm always frustrated when a den leader says they want all their boys to get their rank (most frequently AOL, but sometimes other ranks) at the same time - the boy deserves to receive recognition when HE achieves the rank, regardless of what the other boys do. Likewise, holding off giving the AOL until the crossover ceremony - if you give the boy the rank when he earns it, he actually gets to wear it on his cub scout uniform. My oldest was the only Web II - got his AOL at crossover, the month he earned it. My second got his AOL at the Nov pack meeting - I think there may have been 1 or 2 other boys in his den who get it then as well (4 of the 8 in that den earned their Eagle) - and then crossed over at the B&G in Feb. My youngest got his AOL at the Aug pack mtg by himself, then crossed over to the troop at the Sep pack mtg - as the youngest of 3 scouts in the family, if we had made him wait to get the badge or cross over, he would have rebelled at scouting all together. Maybe you can make a bigger deal of the AOL if it is the focus of the crossover ceremony, but you can still have traditions and ceremonies for it at a regular Pack meeting - my 2nd son still, at 18, has the arrow he was given (with a light stick wrapped around it) on his wall.

'Boy scouts cannot afford to launch a massive PR campaign" But local units can notify their local papers about every positive thing they do - scouting for food, special trips, Eagle projects and awards, adult awards, parades. Ask your local paper to come out to day camp or a camporee to take pictures. Volunteer to lead the flag ceremony to open the county fair, or at a town council meeting, or other civic event, or serve as ushers at the interfaith Thanksgiving service. Do positive things to get noticed in your local community - that's the best PR there is.

I'm committee chair of a brand new pack of 28 boys (14 transfers from a nearby pack). I'm also a former Cub RT commissioner and district trainer. We are camping this weekend, and including 2 parent sessions - 1 hour for new Tiger/Wolf/Bear parents, with an overview of cub scouting, including the terminology - what is a den, pack, Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos, also what is a district and council; quick intro to advancement (Bobcat first, then year rank, then arrow points/electives); who's who in the Pack; overview of calendar (PWD in Jan, B&G in Feb, etc.), then I'll take questions. At the same time, our Cubmaster (and Asst Scoutmaster) will do a similar session for Webelos boys and parents, with an introduction to Boy Scouting and how Webelos transition to Boy Scouts. The Tiger/Wolf/Bear boys will be playing games with their den leaders.

If he is in 6th grade, it's too late - just like a 2nd grader can't earn his Tiger, or a 3rd grader can't earn his Wolf, or a 4th grader can't earn his Bear. If he was still in 5th grade, just older than his classmates, he could get it (I had a special needs boy who was 12 in 4th grade when he started cub scouts - he earned his Webelos and AOL and is on track to get his Eagle, though he will likely need some medical exemptions/extension.)

Don't forget your Council Office/Scout Store as a resource - there is money available to provide uniforms to boys that can't afford them; just ask. The packs/troops in my area usually just pitch in to buy a uniform if it's needed, but we just started a new Pack (and there are a lot of startup costs - pack flag, American flag, PWD track), so when 2 boys asked for help getting uniforms, we asked council, and they provided $75 gift cards to the scout store to give to the families.

If the priest and church want to take a more active role in the Pack by making it part of the church's religious program, that's great - tell him that you look forward to the church encouraging all the boys in the parish to join the Pack. Does the priest know the pack has non-Catholic boys now and in the past? Ask him specifically if those boys need to leave the pack, and if he says yes, you'll need to talk with your DE about starting a new Pack for those boys. (Ask the largest local Methodist Church is they would charter a pack - scouting is generally part of the Methodist men's ministry.) One pack for a small city (I wouldn't call 10,000 a small town - my whole county is ~50,000, and the biggest town is ~2,000) isn't very much - I'm sure the population could support a second pack, particularly if the Catholic Church encourages membership in the existing pack and the new pack reaches out to all the other churches.

In our Pack, the Pack camps 3-4 times a year (1-2 at district camporees), and Webelos will go on a campout with 1 or 2 troops, either both years, or fall of 5th grade.

Our new Pack is doing a 1 night campout in 2 weeks - here is the rough schedule: by 10 am Sat - set-up camp 10-11 - organized games for Tigers/Wolves/Bears (parents will have an orientation to Cub Scouting, and Webelos and parents will have an introduction to Boy Scouting) 11-12 - Hug-A-Tree presentation (boys get whistles and garbage bags, and learn how not to get lost, and what to do if they do get lost) followed by a scavenger hunt. 12-1 Lunch by families (boys supervised by parents) 1-2:30 - Fishing Derby (when not fishing, boys supervised by parents) 2:30-3:30 - Pumpkin carving/decorating by families (boys supervised by parents) 3:30-4 - set up for dinner (boys supervised by parents) 4-5 - hot dog/potluck dinner and cleanup (boys supervised by parents) 5-5:30 - change into costumes 5:30-6:30 - Costume and pumpkin contests 6:30-8:30 - Trick or Treating through campsite (boys supervised by parents) 8:30-9:30 - Campfire program 10 pm - boys in tents Sun morning 8:30-9 Church service Campout ends at 9 (boys supervised by parents) So, we have a bunch of activities planned, with some free time. Parents are responsible for supervising their boys except when there is a specifically planned activity.

"The gloom is nearly every boy over 15 is dropping out. " Why? Have they all reached Eagle and don't know what comes next? Are they involved in activities at school that conflict with Scouts, like mandatory [affects your grade] marching band activities that keep them from camping in the Fall or a heavy academic (AP/IB) schedule? Or, do they stop advancing, get tired of the same boring activities, and then drop out? Very different scenarios. If they are bored, look at your program - is there something challenging for the older boys? When was the last time you went to Philmont/Northern Tier/Sea Base/other extended length backpacking/canoeing trip? Do you have a role for older boys in your troop - as Instructors (teach scout skills to younger/newer boys), or in a Venture Patrol or Venture Crew, or taking leadership in the OA? Do you tell the high school boys with conflicting demands on their time that they are welcome when they can be there, or do you give them the message that they aren't welcome if scouting isn't there first/only priority? Keep the program exciting, guide them to increasing responsibility, and show that you understand their lives. Our troop runs about 40 boys. A few drop out along the way, but there were 7 active seniors this past year - 6 of them earned Eagle, 6 had been to Philmont, 1 had been to Northern Tier, 1 was Chapter Chief for OA (and Vigil). Their attendance dropped off through high school, particularly senior year when academics were very heavy, but they were made welcome, given/led to responsibilities, and offered a challenging program.

Our schools do still allow us to hand out flyers, but we do a lot of other things as well. Our district did ALL of these this year - not certain of total recruitment, but an existing Pack and a brand new Pack in overlapping area in a rural county got ~25 boys combined, existing pack had been about 60 boys. We are in a District and Council that has an annual increase in scouting membership. - Articles/pictures, particularly about service projects and big events, in the local papers as often as possible, to keep scouting visible in the community year round - Recruiting posters in grocery stores and other major stores (in our area, that's the local Thrift shops, hardware stores, Walmart) - Ad in the local paper about Roundup - Follow-up recruiting event for all packs in the county - this year it was a bike rodeo the Saturday after roundup (2 packs got several additional boys at this event) with ad in local paper - Business cards for boys to hand out to friends, date/time of roundup, asking them to join scouts - Yard signs in front of roundup locations - Church bulletin inserts Run a good program and make yourself visible.

Boy-led program does not mean that only boys present the program at every meeting. Our PLC plans program topics and trips for every month. Some programs the boys run (new scout stuff first month after crossover, shakedowns for backpacking, prep for events at camporees, program for campout with Webelos), but often the PLC asks an adult to put on the program. Some regular ideas in our troop: -Town attorney talks about Law - visit to the jail (the boys love this), and mock trial in the county courtroom (takes 3 meetings)- every 2-3 years -Glass blowing demo (boys actually get to blow glass) every 2-3 years -Visit to a local potter every 2-3 years -Bike clinic (before bike trips) - everyone brings in their bikes, adults who are knowledgeable help boys inspect and repair bikes plus review of bike trip safety(usually have a big bike trip every year) -Every few months - fun night - go bowling or to the golf driving range or rollerskating (bowling and rollerskating are 30 min+ from our meeting place - boys don't usually do these activities) -Living history demos from various time periods -Talk from a man who was a scout in Ireland during WWII -Ski safety/intro (every Jan we have a ski trip) -Intros to various merit badges -Rock climbing practice (we usually rock climb at least once a year) Usually one meeting a month is concentrated on trip prep. We don't do a lot of interpatrol games, but there is an ongoing patrol competition - points for attendance, uniforms, quality of meals at campouts, advancements. The winning patrol gets a patrol or individual prizes at the Sept COH - this year all 3 patrols were within 5 points - all got patrol cooking equipment (winning patrol got more). Previous awards have been sleeping bag liners, compasses, dutch ovens. The boys like the competition.

One of my oldest son's first campouts - freezing weather in NC, and the pond was frozen solid enough to walk on (I've never before or since seen that here in NC in 22 years). A group of boys were standing on the ice. My son had a stick, and pounded it on the ground (ice). Then he turned and repeated, again and again, till he had turned in a circle. The ice broke, and he fell into the water (a couple feet deep). The others hauled him out. After he changed clothes, he dried his shoes by the fire. When he got home, he had to explain why his first pair of Nike's, the expensive ones, were melted.

I'm an experienced Cub Leader (Tiger Coach, CM, CC, WDL - my youngest of 3 boy scout sons is 15) who is now Committee Chair for a brand new pack started by my church. We are blessed to have a lot of leaders like me, who are willing to give a year to start up a Pack even though our boys are high school or college age. We are all excited about leading a new generation of boys, and about creating brand new traditions. I wanted to tell you about our first Pack event. A few weeks ago, I read an article on some Scout site (don't remember where it was), called "Stop Having Pack Meetings". The premise is that meetings are boring, so don't have meetings, do something fun. I talked with the new CM about this, and we agreed to have monthly Pack Powwows (instead of meetings). Our first was last night. We have about 30 boys - about 14 who transferred from a nearby Pack (where the leaders' boys had been Cubs) and about 16 from Roundup. Tigers, Bears, and Web IIs already had a leader, one BS leader stepped up to take the 3 Web Is, and the CM and I will organize the Wolves (5 of them) until we get a parent to be the den leader. We met outside, in the gravel parking lot of the church. Scouts from the church's troop built and lit a campfire. The Web IIs (who moved from the other Pack) did a formal flag ceremony. Then we had an induction ceremony for the boys and parents. I talked about the early days of Cub Scouting in the US using a Native American theme, and called us the Webelos Tribe, with Akela (CM) as our leader (using a modified form of an advancement ceremony). As I went through the stages the boy would go through in the tribe, the CM and I put face paint (washable with soap) stripes on our faces. Then we asked the boys who wanted to be part of the Webelos Tribe to come forward with their leaders. They repeated the Cub Promise and Law of the Pack, and then they were marked as members of the Pack with a blue stripe on their forehead. Boys who already had a rank got the stripe for their highest rank, and the leaders got the blue stripe and the stripe for the rank their boys will earn this year. Then I had the parents stand and make a parents pledge, including that they would "help as needed to make the pack go." We sang Happy Birthday to the new Pack, and ended with birthday cake. We finished in 55 minutes, but no one wanted to go home. I had a blast, and one boy who had moved into town over the summer said it was "nothing like his old pack, way better." I like being a kid. Have fun with your Pack. What creative, out-of-the-box things does your Pack do?

I would suggest talking to the boy about why he wants to rejoin, and asking him about the behavior in the past - what is different about him now. If he wants to join, and is trying to put his past behind him, I say give him a chance, with some groundrules - if you do x, you can't be a part of the troop. This is the kind of boy who may need scouting the most. Our troop took in a boy kicked out of another troop for bullying when he was about 13 or 14. Our leaders talked with him about what was acceptable, and monitored him fairly closely. He grew up a lot, earned his Life and was working on his Eagle. Then he took another step back, and had an issue with drugs at school. Our troop suspended him, but he had 3 or 4 years of positive experiences and positive role models (family was not attentive). I count him as one of our troop's successes, even though he still got into trouble.

Our troops/packs (I'm involved with 2 each) just gather used uniforms, and when someone needs one, they take it - no money involved. Most of the uniforms are small, so if the troop gets a surplus of small uniforms, they'll see if the Pack has some small Webelos. If a bounch of boys join at the same time, usually the family most in need (finances, several scouts) gets first choice of what's available. Right now, after giving out a shirt to one new boy and pants to the other last week, the Troop's stash is basically very small pants and hemmed shorts (cut down from long pants). We'll make an announcement at the next few meetings to ask if anyone has outgrown uniforms. A few times leaders have bought things on ebay cheap to add to the closet.

"For those of us in northern climes, a September or October crossover means a new scout is thrust immediately into cold- and foul-weather camping with no preparation." We are in the South (NC), but my second son's 1st BS campout was in March, with snow. The Leaders are prepared (had extra sleeping bags, hats, etc.) for any boys (not just the youngest) who don't bring adequate clothing. Also, it's not unusual for our Webelos to camp with the troop in December or March, maybe when it's not as cold as some places in the north, but they get some cold weather experience (and most places don't have snow yet in October). Our troop is a high adventure troop. Both my younger boys have been rock-climbing at 10 1/2 years. The troop also goes skiing every January, and stays in a large (20x30) army tent. The parents/boys always have the option of not going on a trip if they feel the weather is too bad or the trip is too strenuous, but the troop goes on the trip, on matter the weather. They have sometimes modified a trip - camping in a barn instead of tents when it's snowing.) The boys, even the youngest, love the adventure of roughing it in tough conditions. "A youth-run troop program is naturally goin' to be settin' up a program of activities that's age-appropriate for 13 to 14-year-olds, " Maybe, if they don't get guidance from the adults that the boys in the troop are at different levels. How about backpacking where the older (or stronger boys) hike 20 miles, and the younger boys and those with some physical challenges (like the scout we had with cerebral palsy, or the one we have now with congential muscle weakness) hike 5 miles, but they both get to the peak. Rock climbing can also be at multiple levels on the same trip. And if the level is at 13-14 yo, where does that leave the older, high school boys. In my troop, they are still active, so there are trips to Philmont, Northern Tier, and 200 miles on the Appalachian Trail (like my 15 and turned-18-on-the-trip sons did this summer).

"For those of us in northern climes, a September or October crossover means a new scout is thrust immediately into cold- and foul-weather camping with no preparation." We are in the South (NC), but my second son's 1st BS campout was in March, with snow. The Leaders are prepared (had extra sleeping bags, hats, etc.) for any boys (not just the youngest) who don't bring adequate clothing. Also, it's not unusual for our Webelos to camp with the troop in December or March, maybe when it's not as cold as some places in the north, but they get some cold weather experience (and most places don't have snow yet in October). Our troop is a high adventure troop. Both my younger boys have been rock-climbing at 10 1/2 years. The troop also goes skiing every January, and stays in a large (20x30) army tent. The parents/boys always have the option of not going on a trip if they feel the weather is too bad or the trip is too strenuous, but the troop goes on the trip, on matter the weather. They have sometimes modified a trip - camping in a barn instead of tents when it's snowing.) The boys, even the youngest, love the adventure of roughing it in tough conditions. "A youth-run troop program is naturally goin' to be settin' up a program of activities that's age-appropriate for 13 to 14-year-olds, " Maybe, if they don't get guidance from the adults that the boys in the troop are at different levels. How about backpacking where the older (or stronger boys) hike 20 miles, and the younger boys and those with some physical challenges (like the scout we had with cerebral palsy, or the one we have now with congential muscle weakness) hike 5 miles, but they both get to the peak. Rock climbing can also be at multiple levels on the same trip. And if the level is at 13-14 yo, where does that leave the older, high school boys. In my troop, they are still active, so there are trips to Philmont, Northern Tier, and 200 miles on the Appalachian Trail (like my 15 and turned-18-on-the-trip sons did this summer).

My youngest (of 3 scouts) got his AOL in August (just after starting 5th grade, at 10 1/2) and crossed over to Boy Scouts in Sept. It worked for us, but it was HIS choice. He was motivated to work on his Webelos stuff, and then to quickly advance in the troop, so that he could go on a troop trip to Canada the summer after 5th grade. Fact - you can't cross the boy into the troop with his brother (he's not old enough) Suggestion - encourage him to advance quickly, and let him move up to the troop after getting his AOL. He may make it at the earliest possible time (when he's 10 1/2) and if so, there's no reason to hold him back in Cub Scouts, IF he's excited about being a boy scout. My son had his AOL ceremony at one pack meeting (an abbreviated form of the typical ceremony, which in our pack is usually done at the same time as the crossover) and then got to wear his AOL badge for a month on hic cub uniform (which most of our boys don't) before crossing over (again, an abbreviated ceremony, but with a real bridge) at the next Pack meeting. (I stayed in cub scouts and continued as the Web II den leader until the rest of the den crossed over in Feb.) Because he was motivated, missing the first summer camp and a new scout patrol didn't matter (like I said, he was the 3rd scout in the family and was very comfortable with older kids.) FYI, neither of my other boys were in a New Scout Patrol either - 1 was the only boy to join the troop, and with the other, I think there were 4 boys, and 1 or 2 went into each of the existing 3 patrols. The older boys in the patrol taught them the new scout skills. This past year, the troop only got 2 boys (pack feeds into 2 troops), and each one went into a separate patrol - no problems. Our troop does have a rule (broken for only 1 set of brothers in the 14 years I've been in the troop) that brothers are not in the same patrol. That cuts down on the competition and brotherly rowdiness, and let's each boy work with a group of friends.