msnowman

AFAIK there are no "specific" qualifications for a youth to be a Den Chief, other than be registered with a Troop or Crew (and maybe Post?). I believe the 1st Class and above thing varies by Troop. Nephew is in his 2nd year as a Den Chief and is still only 2nd Class, but does a great at what he does. Our District conducts Den Chief training and recommends that the youth be 1st Class or higher, but they don't deny training to a willing participant. Like many things, YMMV YiS Michelle

Nephew still loves his new Scout pants and likes to wear them, so on that part of hitting the mark I think National was dead on for once. However, as the laundress/seamstress I have to concur with some of the common complaints about the pants. The intergrated belt buckle clip pulled off. We have stitched it back on. As was said before, where the hip belt on his pack comes around him the pants have pilled (though Gern's choice of "chaffing" was perfect). His pant leg bottoms drag in the mud because they are a bit long, although his size 11 1/2 boots do a better job of keeping them out of the dirt than his sneakers (but does that convince him to wear his boots more? of course not). And the belt twists in its sleeve with every washing. Each Sunday its "Tia, can you help me with the fricking belt?" From his point of view the pants are fabulous and still get the "I'd wear them to school" stamp of approval. And they are much better compared to the older ones. YiS Michelle

I've done a very similar presentation that ended up making parents (at least the moms) weepy eyed. I used Cub Scouts to hold the streamer at the appropriate marks. When I tore the strip at their point they went back to their seats. Eventually I was left with the smallest Tiger, holding 7 and my Boy Scout Nephew holding 11 (He's 13, but its close enough to make the point). I closed it by saying "I started in Cub Scouts X years ago as "Nephew's" Tiger partner. I've had the privledge of watching him grow from this small boy (hands on the shoulder of the small Tiger), to this young man, several inches taller than I am. I've seen him learn to tie his shoes, a square knot and a bowline. It is time I would not trade for anything in the world. And the best part? I got to see this change take place and play an active role in it...and he still wants me there. I've made choices I have regretted, being a Scout leader has never been one of them. YMMV YiS Michelle

In my conversation w/ the youth, he said he took this knife because he couldn't find his regular pocketknife. I asked him if he understood why CC had safety concerns and he did, but still wasn't happy about being singled out as breaking, in his view, a non-existant rule. I'm not sure why I'm involved in the first place, except that both people seem to find me easy to talk to and a knowledgable listener. To that end, I have checked Nephew's Troop Handbook - (he actually keeps it w/ his Scout book, go figure). There is no mentioned Troop wide ban on fixed blade knives, whether in a sheath or not. AFAIK there are no specific Council or District rules in regards to knives, but I will ask. Thanks for the insight YiS Michelle

There is a raging...well really battle in Nephew's troop between CC and one Scout over a knife. I've heard the story from both people involved and pretty much there is only one version (may be a first for a youth vs adult tale of woe). Facts as presented by both people - 1 - CC was chaperone on this outing. 2 - CC dislikes fixed blade knives and considers them unsafe. 3 - Scout was not playing w/ said knife, it came to CC's attention when it fell (sheathed) out of Scouts pocket. 4 - CC confiscated said knife for the remainder of the outing (1 more night) and returned it to Scout upon returning home. 5 - CC doesn't believe fixed blades knives are allowed. I have read the G2SS and can only find a reference saying to "avoid large sheath knives", nothing to say they are banned or what is considered "large". Is there a BSA policy banning fixed blade knives? If so, where can it be found? I personally have no dogs in this fight, but since both people came to me to vent I would like to be properly educated. Thanks YiS Michelle

You people are great. I'm getting very helpful information and directions to point him in. I figure boots will probably be the single most expensive item I have to purchase for this trip...no Wal-Mart hikers for Philmont. My only hesitation with buying his boots for August, 2008 is that he is 13 and changes shoe size about every 4-6 months right now. Would six months out from trek date be enough time to break his Philmont boots in? And what are smart wool socks and where does one buy them? Campmor? LLBean? Another favorite source? Thanks a bunch YiS Michelle

Thanks for the reply Lisabob. Fortunatly the SPL was a DC last year (not for this group though) and still helps the Pack w/ things (ie PWD, B&G, etc) because his GMother is part of the Pack, so he knows Shy Scout. The Troop is small - 1 patrol of 5 boys, plus SPL, so there is no specific person for new scouts at this time, but they are plenty active. And I know, you would think that knowing 2 out of 6 boys would be good...but its the other 4 boys plus the unknown adults plus the unknown situation that I believe is Shy Scouts worry spot. He is homeschooled, so he doesn't encounter the number of strangers that a child in school would. His parents (newly divorced) are both at a loss for how to help him thru his shyness, so they look to me for help there. I was a shy child and a shy adult (until I became CM) and crowds still bother me some, so I understand what he is going thru. That's why I am trying to prep him ahead of time and trying to find ways to relieve some of the fear. YiS Michelle

Yea, I wasn't going to actually start buying yet, but I like to do the shopping around, compare prices, get over "sticker shock". Right now all of the extra family cash is headed to the mouse place in Florida. His SM (and the SM's wife) was on of the adults on the Council Contingent this past summer and will be going again next year, so I'm sure they will be a good source of what works & what doesn't. Its just the compulsive part of my that made me ask..... Thanks. YiS Michelle

The thought behind bringing the SM & SPL to us instead of us going to them is the comfort level of my 2 Webelos. I don't want my painfully shy one to get so overwhelmed that he wants to quit (and yes, we have been thru that twice already). He nearly choked when I said one of the things we would be doing this spring is visiting the Troop. I like your idea of having a Troop Night, but right now I'd have to do that in two seperate meetings to take his feelings into account. I have already let the families know that they can visit any of the area Troops they want and that I would get them the name/number of the person to contact when they are ready to visit. Thanks for the insight, I greatly appreciate you taking the time to answer me. I will be adding your suggestions to the things I take in to account when I make the final decision. YiS Michelle

Well Nephew decided he wants to be part of the council contigent for Philmont in 2008. So the deposit has been made and now I'm starting the shopping...are at least pricing. He has an in-frame Backpack currently, about 5000 cubic inches, fits him fairly well. Should he have an external frame for Philmont or will this one likely be all right? I'll buy him what he needs, but I don't want to replace equipment that will be fine. I know (or think I know) weight is a consideration. Also, he should have some small ditty bags for his "scentables". Is that correct? Any other prep tips for the check writer? I'm figuring council will prolly send out info packets of some sort when the trek numbers are finalized...but I hate waiting, so figured I'd ask here for some hints while I wait. Thank you so much for any help. One of the first things I'm buying is a lawnmower - a Scout earns his way...and this one has a lot to earn. YiS Michelle

My 2 first year Webelos will be getting their Webelos rank at B&G in March (WOOHOO guys!), so I'm looking ahead to having them visit a Troop meeting and intend to start them with our brother Troop. One is very shy and doesn't do well w/ larger groups (ie 5 or 6 strangers), the other is just a very young 9...he's still quite immature, but time will help that. So, (getting to my point) before we do a Troop visit I was thinking of asking the SM and SPL to come in and meet with the boys and their adults. I thought it would be easier if the Boy Scout representatives came to us, instead of us going to them for the first time. This way the SPL & SM could talk to everybody and answer any questions without taking their time away from their own meeting later that afternoon. We have a Den Chief (Nephew has been their DC for 2 years), but I think its important for everybody to meet the SPL and SM as well. Thoughts? Criticisms? Other suggestions? (You can't criticize if you can't offer an IYHO, better idea.) YiS Michelle

Thanks all for the help. I try to stay up on changes going on so I was reasonably sure I hadn't missed a change but was willing to be re-educated if I had. As for the suggestion about Pack Trainer/UC - we don't have a PT and in the 7 years I've been involved in this pack in various positions I have yet to even hear the name of our UC mentioned, let alone ever meet him/her. Hmmm.....now I'm curious to find out who it is...I know our DE and DC but not our UC.... Ah well Again - thanks for all the help YiS Michelle

I was DL last year for a mixed Wolf/Bear Den. This year I'm the WDL and CM (again - and no, this isn't to debate 2 hats). This year's Wolf DL intends to count unused parts of Wolf achievements towards arrow points. I don't believe he can do that, but his training is from September and mine is from a couple of years ago. I'm thinking he confused the Wolf and Bear stands on unused achievements but am looking for some confirmation. He is a 1st year leader, so he may have gotten confused. On the other hand I am an experienced leader and my training may be out of date. I'm not trying to be a member of the Advancement Police. I'm just trying to stay up to date on any changes I may have inadvertently missed. Thanks for your help YiS Michelle

That's the date on our council calendar as well. YiS Michelle

Right you are Beav little reason the boys can't make refreshments. That's why Nephew makes the veggie platter....he puts the veggies he will eat on it (his way would be just cukes and carrots) and makes the dip. He doesn't like broccoli that the store puts on theirs. I have been able to talk him into adding celery for those that will eat it. He specializes in sliced cukes and mini-cheesecake bites (instant package mix, but all his own work). The boys take so much pride in being the food providers...."you've got to try my blah, blah". YiS Michelle

Nephew's Troop generally does cheese/cracker trays, veggie platter, and a cookie/brownie tray along with coffee, tea and punch. If red punch stains wouldn't be joyous how about lemonade for the boys? Of course if Nephew had his way CoH's would include large cans of Monster or Amp'd...or at the very least Mountain Dew....lol YiS Michelle

Since training can't be stressed enough - don't delay getting CM training. I was CM for 3 years, took a year off from it (to run a Wolf/Bear combo den) and am back as CM again. Something I found useful to me was not just taking CM training but taking the fast start training for all levels of Cub Scout leadership, including Committee. Having an idea of what was expected of the other leaders made me feel better prepared to do my job. What does it entail? The CM is the MC (read that emcee) for Pack meetings and gatherings. Once a month or so you get up in front of everybody, conducting (with lots of input and help from the dens) the monthly meeting. You act silly in front of your boys (elf hat and shoes for last weeks meeting), you lead songs, are the butt of jokes (Have you ever seen a windbag?), you look for exciting ways to present badges of rank. You also get misty eyed when you read that one of your boys has lost his mother 2 weeks before his birthday, or another tells you that the dvd you made them brought tears to his eyes because it was "bittersweet" (that was the word one of the 2nd graders used to describe it) or a mother thanks you for helping her son make it thru a paralyzing case of stage fright. You find friends you never knew you had in these boys and their parents. Boys seek you out at the grocery store to say hi, their dads call to ask if they can buy a car to race at Pinewood Derby and little sisters want to show you their new fancy shoes. It was the best job I ever had (once I got over my own fear of public speaking). YiS Michelle (edited because correct spelling is not a crime)(This message has been edited by msnowman)

Thanks for the replies. That was pretty much what I thought, but I wanted to check in for second, third, further opinions. His Troop does few fundraisers beyond popcorn, so conflicting there isn't a worry. And I would never ask him to skip a Troop anything for a Pack/Den anything...that would be entirely unfair to him so scheduling conflicts are also a non-issue. Though he chooses not to sell flower bulbs (fine by me, that's his decision to make, not mine for him), he does help with the fundraiser by helping me sort and pick orders when the product comes in. I think he's proud of the fact that I tell him "You know how to do this since we've done it a half dozen times together". I put my trust in him to know what needs to be done...he trained his first assistant this year. No errors. So many ways for a boy to learn and grow. YiS Michelle

I wasn't even sure where to put this post so I figured I'd start here and if necessary a mod could move it. Do you expect your Den Chief to take part in a Pack fundraiser? Our Pack is having a pie sale Saturday. Nephew has been a DC for my group for 2 years (not that tenure should matter). He doesn't sell flower bulbs when the Pack does but is looking forward to doing his hour at the Pie Sale. I had planned on going anyway, since I am the Web DL & incoming CM. I would never discourage a DC (or anybody else who wanted to help) from taking a turn at the Sale booth. However, I did wonder if DC's routinely help their Packs/Dens in fundraisers. YiS Michelle

Sometimes it is hard to get the adults to let go of "traditions" that they hold near. Nephew's Troop has custom neckerchiefs that the SM's wife embrodiers (and has for several years, before he became SM). However, the SPL has asked if the troop could design a new design. He was told no, this one is special (it might have been when the adults who ran the group a few years ago came up with it but they and their boys have aged out). IMHO this is an example of an adult tradtion that is getting in the way of boy-led. YiS Michelle

http://www.bangornews.com/a/class/obituaries/obituary.cfm?id=61389 I had the priveledge of working with this man until just this past fall. He was a pleasant guy and a good worker. He and I often talked about Scouts, so I knew he was an Eagle...he often asked about Nephew's progress. He will be missed by many. Michelle

Nephew's Troop (with one 5 man patrol) alternates between wanting MRE's and Cup O' Noodle to grandiose ideas like Huevos Rancheros and Steak for their meals. Usually where they land is somewhere in the middle - Oatmeal and fruit for breakie, Grilled cheese & meat for lunch (with an alternative for Milk Allergic PL) and something hardy and hot for supper (Nephew recently learned how to make beef stew in a dutch oven). The troop did a month of meetings focused on outdoor menu planning and cooking to help them prep for winter camping to come. The SPL and then SM still have final refusal on menus...and the SM is usually the one to take the shoppers out to buy the food. Now to learn how to budget. YiS Michelle

Nephew says "Tia, I have a question" Nephew means "Tia, I want to know what you think but then will argue with you or ask unanswerable follow ups until your head explodes." Nephew shouts down the stairs "Tia, can you come to the bottom of the stairs?" Nephew means "I broke something upstairs." YiS Michelle (aka Tia)

I don't see why a troop should have an issue accepting an 11 yo 5th grader. Because of when Nephew's birthday falls, he turned 11 2 months after starting 5th grade. His age was not an issue when he joined the troop. Good Luck YiS Michelle

Maybe our Pack interprets "Lead" a bit too loosely. We have always (heck, going back before my time....6 year now) considered "leading" as being the one to call the room to attention for the Pledge of Allegiance and the CS Promise/Law. The boy leader is also the one to bring in the US Flag. Our Webelos I's (all 2 of them) have both planned their flag ceremonies. One was last month, the other will be this month. They lead by bringing in the US Flag, plus another reading about the flag of their choice. They also choose the other members of the color guard (each den has a flag and doing a full parade of flags has been very popular this year). They have even chosen who will call the color guard. YMMV YiS Michelle