msnowman

Greying Eagle said "We've got NSP guys who appearently earned the Totin' Chip as Webelos and wear the patch on the right pocket flap >8-(! It's a temporary patch worn on the right pocket, but their WDL said that he was told the Totin'Chip patch is worn on the right pocket flap. He could not recall where he had heard of that. The WDL's in my grandson's pack has never heard of such a thing. Anybody got any ideas?" Perhaps their WDL is confusing the Boy Scout Totin' Chip Patch with the Cub Scout Whittlin' Chip Patch? AFAIK Cubs (including Webelos) can earn the Whittlin' Chip and the Totin' Chip is the realm of Boy Scouts. Perhaps I'm the one who is missing a piece here...not for the first or last time. Anyway, there is a Whittlin' Chip patch, similar to the Totin' Chip patch and just about as official, meaning it is a temp patch and better suited to a Patch Vest or blanket or rotated off the right pocket when replaced by a cooler temporary patch, especially now that Cub Scouts have an Outdoor award patch that goes on their pocket flap. YMMV & IMBW YiS Michelle CM _ P102

While I can't speak for all parents about the cost of "new clothes", I can say that for us, the only cost I'm choking on is socks. Wow good, non-cotton socks are expensive. I knew I'd be spending upwards to $90.00 each for boots and coat, that's what happens when your almost 12 year old wears a mens 11 1/2 boot and men's medium coat...not more kids deals. For me personally, this has been one of the most helpful threads I've read here in a while....thank goodness for you folks. YiS Michelle

Thank you for the help with my winter shopping list for Nephew. Now that I have some direction, his shopping just became much easier...if I can convince him to wear wool socks...he has only ever worn cotton (wool being too itchy). Layers, layers, layers....good for cakes, parfaits and winter wear. Thanks again Michelle

I know I will sound woefully uneducated, and in the matters of winter camping I am. But I have a couple of questions before I buy winter boots/coat/hat/mittens for Nephew. Chillout is February, but winter is a lot earlier than that here in Maine. 1 - Why no cotton? 2 - Boots? Thinsulate? Felt liners? A combo? 3 - Coat? Down? Fiberfill? Hooded? 4 - Mittens? Gloves? 5 - Long underwear and shirt? 6 - Ski pants? necessary? Now for regular life here I'd buy in a hooded parka with thinsulate type poly material in it. His boots would be felt or otherwise lined, but those are wicked heavy...fine for walking down to the schoolbus and tobogganning, but not necessarily for camping. My mother still knits mittens for him and that's fine for home, he can change a half dozen times, not practical for camping. It would be easier to diaper an elephant than to get him to wear ski pants or long johns. I'm hoping to only have to buy one coat and one pair of boots this winter, so any direction will be most appreciated. YiS Michelle

Keeping this thread in mind, I asked my newly minted Tenderfoot what he thought about the requirement. He will be one who has to do the recruiting requirement as he will not pass 1st Class by June 30th, 2006 (its the swim thing). He fails to see what the big deal is unless he has to harass his friends until they join. For us that's where it begins and ends. I don't have to do the requirement, he does. He doesn't see it as an issue, so there is no reason I should. YiS Michelle CM - P102

If "can you read yet" is a regular part of your Den meeting, he might be a Cub Scout. If learning to tie a square knot happens before learning to tie his shoes, he might be a Cub Scout. If cookies and juice are working bribes, he might be a Cub Scout. If the flags outweight the boy carrying them, he might be a Cub Scout. Michelle CM - P102

As CM I have hosted many an adult leaders meeting. We never did any formal opening type thing, we simply met in my dining room with calenders in hand for reviewing dates, etc. One thing we do offer though is "child care". I have a wide assortment of child friendly videos and Nephew enjoyed hosting the children if any had to come with Mom 'cause dad was working. If I knew we were having young visitors I arranged kool aid and popcorn to be available for them, to go with their movie and host. Having Nephew host the youth reduced the trips to the dining for "Mom, can I need a drink/potty/snack, etc" YMMV Michelle

I know the website to which you refer and was most dismayed to find it down. When Nephew was working on this I printed up some Scout Badge print outs and had him draw the other elements on. I also printed out some 1st class badges and he labeled them with what the items stood for. Sheesh, a year later he can still remember them...lol Good luck Michelle CM - P102

Nephew absolutely hates to wear his troop neckerchief. There is really no good reason for it, except that he far prefers to wear his BS Bolo tie. When it comes time for his TF BOR, should I push the issue and make him wear his troop neckerchief? Everything else he wears is standard BS issue, shirt, pants, belt (after I replace the buckle that was lost at camporee), hat and socks. He even has an official slide that he could wear (normally he wears a homemade one when he wears his neckerchief). Thanks for your input Michelle CM - P102

Well both boys completed Den Chief training this past Saturday. During their training they were told that while Tigers don't normally have or need a DC, they can have one if the interest is there. My own Scout has taken his training to heart...the first thing he asked for was a Wolf book because "we were told that we should have a handbook for the den we are working with". Thanks all Michelle

BW says "No, but it does have to do with how you recruit. Unless you only have 12 eligible tiger candidates in town recruiting three Tiger Cubs is not a good sign." In that case I take having 4 Tigers out of a class with 7 eligible boys as a decent rate. Do other schools have the problem of low numbers of boys? Our school of 170 (K-8) has nearly twice as many girls as it does boys. If your Bear is a first year scout (mine is), then he won't experience much repitition of activities. My concern is next year when he would be the only Webelos, since that is a different kettle of fish all together. Michelle

Except that I only have 3 Wolves, I'm in the same position this year and am running the den as a combined group. Right now they are working on Bobcat at the Den level, so the playing field is even there. I've been planning ahead and many of the requirements have parallels in the two programs. No, its not a perfect situation, but I believe it will be doable. The parents are still the ones to be signing off most of the requirements, so all the boys should still be progressing at their own speed. Good luck in however you proceed. Michelle CM - P102 DL - Wolf/Bear den

And here I am obsessing about my first Pack meeting this year (Sunday afternoon). /Smile What you described as a Pack meeting sounds more like our recruiting night, which is a bit...um...understructured, though our Den Chiefs in training did their best and 2 boys will be getting their marbles beltloops. While our Pack meetings may not always be the best, and we almost always start a little late, we never skimp on the Flags or the boys. Uniforming is encouraged, with the Cubmaster (me) at least in uniform shirt. I always have something, at every Pack meeting, that might be considered fun. The boys don't like to do skits or to come up and sing, but we do have some jokesters, so that is encouraged. However, the comment about burn out is also spot on. I told the Pack last year that I was leaving at the end of this charter year (December for us). I am totally burnt out and its time for someone else to step up and contribute to their son's program, not simply be a bystander (sorry, that's a vent at my group, not meant towards anybody here). Good luck with your Pack. Michelle CM - P102

I think this may be the link to which you were referring JW. Its called Perfectly Versatile Campsite. The plans are available to make a table, wash stand, flag pole, etc. http://www.gspiglet.org/pvc.htm I'm looking at doing something similar for our Wolves as they would have to learn to tie their shoes before moving on to lashings...1 out of 3 can tie....we will get to the knots a bit later. Michelle CM P102

mb, I understand that they haven't quit (and here's hoping they won't), and that they are still registered with your Pack at least through recharter. What I was trying to say (and failed at, wouldn't be the first time and definately won't be the last /smile) is that since they are currently inactive, they aren't costing the Pack or the Den anything, since they aren't receiving awards, taking part in Den/Pack activities, etc. We have 2 boys who have opted not to return to the Pack this fall (both have heard the call of the stage). Both are still registered with the Pack until we recharter in December. However, if they were to change their minds and come back at a later point, we would simply charge them dues going forward. We would be handling them and their return the same way we would handle a boy who signed up in December or January. On the other hand, the father who stood up Pack paid training? Him I'd hold accountable for the Pack's cost if he had agreed to take the training in the first place. That was an example of bad form. Good luck.... Michelle

If they had quit over the summer and then changed their minds in December, would you charge them dues back to the beginning of your Scout year (for us that would be September)? When they return to meetings, then they become part of the program and should be responsible for dues going forward...why should they pay for something they aren't using? If I cancelled my cable (God forbid) and then changed my mind 3 months later I'd be more than a little irrate if they wanted to charge me for the months that I didn't have it. BTW - Gratz on the lots of new recruits. Glad your year is off to a good start. YiS Michelle CM - P102

When Nephew was a Cub Scout we looked at things as building blocks. You start with the basics and build up...Bobcat to Wolf to Bear to Webelos and then to Arrow of Light. Things learned early are reinforced at the next level and covered more in depth. The Fitness pin for Webelos sets the building blocks for Personal Fitness as a Boy Scout...ages and stages. Whether its Readyman setting the foundation for the First Aid requirements, of Wolf (3c - show what to do for a small cut) setting the stage for Readyman or Wolves learning to tie their shoes as an arrow elective before moving on to square knots in Bear and two half hitch in Webelos and timber hitch in Boy Scouts, things build on each other. IMHO Michelle CM - P102

Citizen can be dull as spit if you let me. When Nephew was a Webelos I came up with several Citizenship games for them to play to learn their various things, including "Know your Flag Survivor", "Civic Leader Match Game" and "Duties and Rights Line Up". After a month we ended with Citizenship Jeopardy which was a big hit. Okay, so its not a physically active badge, but it can be jazzed up, made interesting and still meet the requirements. Good luck Michelle CM - P102

Our School is a very small K-8 public school that went from about 200 students last fall to 170 this fall....and most of those, in all 9 grades are girls. On the bright side, there are 6 boys in this year's Kindergarten class, so that's 6 potential Tigers to sign up next spring. Michelle

We had our sign up night last night and I consider it a sucess, though sucess may be in the eyes of the beholder. We got 1 new Bear (Bringing our total number of Bears to 1), 1 new Wolf (for a total of 4) and 3 new parents. These are in addition to our 5 Tigers and 1 Web II that we already have. I know, it doesn't seem like great numbers, but the truth of the matter is out of a first grade with just 7 boys in it we have 4 (the other goes to another school). The second grade has six boys, so we have half of those and the third grade has 4 boys (so we landed a quarter). The 4th grade has 3 boys (we have none of those) and the Fifth grade has 5 boys (we have none of those either, our Web II is in another school). Also, given the fact that for the last two years we had Zero Wolves and last year had Zero Bears, I feel this is a step forward. How did your Pack do? Michelle CM - P102 DL - P102 (New Motto - "We'll make it work")

We have trouble keeping the Webelos device on Nephew's knot, so I use a bit of super glue. It lasted for about a year's worth of washings and needs to be redone, but the stem is so short on the tiny pin that the clasp barely holds through the knot and the shirt. YMMV Michelle CM - P102

Thank you all for your extremely helpful responses. The two den leaders in question are very open to the idea of having a den chief, so they aren't the issue. We've been trying to get den chiefs for the last 3 years, with no luck from the Troop, so we have pretty much "grown our own". I'll send them back to the SM prepared with training date (out of district, but accessible to us). Do they need his blessing/permission or can they take the training anyway? Michelle - P102

Agreed Trevorum in regards to the 1st Class thing. Since I know both boys outside of Scouts, I told them I wouldn't want them as DC's until they were 1st Class since that is about a year out of the Pack. That gives them time to be Boy Scouts, and some time away from the Cub Scouts...a lot of maturity can happen in that year.

Someone far wiser than I am once said "better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"....well, here I go again, removing all doubt. I understand the logistics behind the thought that 5'6" of water is a depth over the head of a Scout who is 5'4" (or a Scouter that height, like me ) But in my head I always figured that the water was meant to be deep enough for you to be able to into feet first safely...without hitting bottom quickly and getting hurt.....9 feet was always my mental number. How does one jump safely (even feet first) into water that is just barely over their heads? At that point too, in the requirement as presented it doesn't say that PFD's are banned...so one could use a literal interpretation to suggest that a boy who does the swim in a PFD should pass, which I don't believe is the spirit of the swimming requirement. I think there are some adults who are in too much of a rush to get their Scout to the next level that they play with the requirement to get him past it so that they (meaning the adult) can have the glory of having a "insert choice rank here" Scout. My own Scout doesn't swim well, passed the 2nd Class swim test after a lot of work and has formulated a plan to be able to pass 1st Class next summer. He doesn't want any exceptions made for him and would be horrified at the thought of tweaking things so he could pass sooner. He jumped in for the Beginner's test just like everybody else...hated it....but finished it on his own. He called me at home to tell me that...you cheat your boy when you "dumb down" a requirement. IMHO Michelle - P102

have to be DC for only Webelos dens? I'm with the Pack and two of the younger boys in the Troop have expressed an interest in being DC. Now both of these boys are way too close in age to our Webelos II's (we have no Webelos I's). One would like to be a DC for our Wolves (all two of them) and stay with them thru to bridging over...you know, build a relationship, etc. The other would be happy to be a DC for the Tigers, and do the same thing. and just to be clear - They have talked to me about it because one is my own Scout and the other is his friend (and frequent visitor to our home and these things have come up there frequently). Their SM has been.....slow to respond....to requests for direction in receiving DC training, so they are frustrated with that route. As the Pack CM I just want to be sure we have a place for them before sending them back to their SM. Thanks for you input Michelle - P102