msmjr2003

There's a similar thread in which I answered, but for the sake of detail here... I wanted my son to distance his homebody ways. I was very involved with the BSA as a youth, and have been very involved with the CAP as an adult. I offered either option to him. He chose the BSA so he wouldn't have to cut his hair. Since joining, he's enjoyed the camping portions the most. I'm glad to see him enjoying himself, and would have been happy if he'd have joined either organization. Edited for spelling.(This message has been edited by msmjr2003)

My two youth-oriented programs of support are the BSA and the CAP. (I've significant time and association with both.) When I offered my son the option of either, he chose BSA. Ultimate reason why, from his perspective? "I don't have to get a haircut with the BSA."

Eagle92, I don't presume to speak on behalf of anybody but myself. Translation? This is an opinion, which is like an armpit...you know the rest of the armpit analogy, right? ;-) Some may choose to wear awards that - to the wearer - take into consideration two factors. The first might be limiting clutter. In order to do that, picking and choosing helps whittle down the tally. Whatever floats a person's boat, I suppose! :-) Perhaps for me (and I might have mentioned this earlier), I have 2 shirts; the "rsum" shirt, upon which all my doohickies and dingle-dangles are kept for Courts of Honor and the like, and then my standard BSA shirt, which is mighty bare except for the necessities, such as council strip, badge of office, and that's about it. "What sort of Scout was I? Well, come here and let me show you how to build this fire and light it with one match....two if it's windy, but that's all it's gonna take." :-) Some people like telling their BSA story passively upon their clothes, and that's cool; I'm just not one of those folks*. No shame in either variety. We need both to make BSA the best possible experience for our leaders of tomorrow. *-On standard "shirt and pants" working uniforms in the USAF, officers rarely wear their awards and decs; they do so on formal uniforms, at "big deal" events, or when performing special duties that mandate awards and decs, such as recruiting. It's probably a personal "culture cling" of mine to continue the practice.

I guess I'll offer a swing in this dead horse punch-out we're enjoying. :-) I don't mean to contradict any fellow USAF veterans, but from 1995-2003, I didn't hear any "2" command in either (a) any sort of AETC-endorsed training, such as BMT and AFROTC, or (b) throughout my time associated with our base's honor guard. Quickly (!) skimming AFMAN 36-2203, I don't see "2" listed as either a prep command or one of execution. I HAVE, however, heard the command "2" in an Army context (my wife is a now-former company commander in the USAR). The NCOs used the command a few times in a small formation. It caught my attention because, as mentioned earlier, I never heard "2" in the USAF, and I also thought to myself, "Hey, just like the BSA; how nice." :-) Doesn't mean it was right, incidentally; the NCO could have simply been a former BSA member! http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFMAN36-2203.pdf(This message has been edited by msmjr2003)

I was introducing the premise of the ticket to a non-BSA friend. When I mentioned that one must complete his/her 5 items in 18 months, my friend asked, "What consequences are there if somebody doesn't?" I wasn't sure of an appropriate response. Clearly the person's Wood Badge formal association with the course in which he/she was would end. However, would that same person be allowed to enroll in some subsequent course? Must do the whole thing all over again or pick back up where one left off? Permanently excluded from Wood Badge for failure to progress? That will show me for trying to talk about things without knowing the whole truth! :-) Anybody have the answer?

I stayed in L/S Centennial BSA uniform for all parts of both weekends of my recent Wood Badge training, which included a fairly steep and long hike, camping in remote locations, work detail, etc... With the exception of a desert patterned GORE-TEX jacket worn when chilly, and a set of green jungle boots I got from Altama a *long* time ago, I was completely BSA-clad. Had *no* problems with anything BSA-sponsored or BSA-owned. Let there be no doubt: I'm a fan of Uncle Sugar's stuff - I should be, given my former occupation and my current one also. Noted, I am also sold on what I used from the BSA inventory every bit as much. For standard BSA ops, the BSA stuff seems plenty sufficient and seemingly-able to stand at least normal wear and tear that we put our threads through.... My $0.02, worth what you paid for it!

Outstanding! Now if the folks in Bemidji will do this up as they do their special red version.....

Ha.... Well, I had to think of something that would be overwhelmingly consistent across all cultures, all of these United States, etc.

Milpitas....that's where my daughter's daycare is. Wonder if they heard about this?

For me, it's cheaper to supplement my camping gear with assorted garments/items I had in the USAF. But I also use discretion. For example, I'd never wear BDU trousers in place of the BSA trousers, but I do hike in my boots. I also have been known to wear the desert-patterned GORE-TEX jacket, but only if rain is in the forecast. Otherwise, I don't see much need to supplement my stuff. Places like REI are ridiculously expensive when I have the EXACT same thing (if not better) sitting at home. Just because Uncle Sugar gave it to me/made me buy it shouldn't necessarily exclude its use. Just don't run around at a Boy Scout meeting with a Kevlar helmet and a bazooka; that'd probably be a bad plan. Good discretion is the order of the day...

I still stay very active (run 25 miles a week, often more) and am in the normal BMI range. Oddly enough, for as much as I still run, age still plays a part in my sitting on a plateau of +20lbs compared to my weight 20 years ago. What helps me keep the battle at bay is to just outright accept and make the life change that few like to do. I was raised on great, "down home" food. However, if I'm not a farmer, I'd best not eat like a farmer. Haven't had a fastfood hamburger since 1996. Doesn't make me better than anybody, it just means I make a choice to watch the fat and other nasties. Do it long enough, it becomes as natural as wearing clothes to work.

Personal preference and NOT a political statement, but I don't wear the purple patch on my routine BSA uniform shirt for regular meetings and camp-outs. On my formal BSA shirt, I think I may have it on there; now I'll have to go check, as I wear the formal one with knots and doo-hickie dangles so seldom!

Cross my heart, hope to die: I don't mean to come off holier-than-thou. With that promise at the forefront, I see many folks live for the s/s-only shirts and then wear l/s undergarments. To *me* it looks pretty funky, but hey; opinions are like armpits, right? We all got 'em, and nearly all of 'em are bad at some time or another. Personally, I'm a fan of the l/s. I prefer the roll up feature (works for me) in 100+ heat or leave 'em down in 10 degrees with some thermals underneath. Then again, as an armed force veteran, our working attire was generally l/s with some roll-up functionality. To me and for me: If it's good enough for Uncle Sugar to have everybody in l/s and let 'em roll as appropriate for the conditions, and they're paid to know how to live in the dirt pretty well, then I can easily follow suit. To each one's own, though. :-)

Good evening; not my first posts, but still am an overall new guy to your folks' forum. Though I was an active Boy Scout in my youth (and it was my #1 priority), I have been extremely involved in another program that has an active youth program, as an adult member. It shouldn't be any surprise that I have heard this exact same question and associated responses within the other program also! I don't believe I can (or should) restate some of the other great responses. With that in mind, as a person who held the equivalent role of Scoutmaster in the other program, I too have beat my head against a wall at times over many similar rhetorical questions. At the end of the day, I came to same conclusion every time. (And yes, one finger is pointing while three are flipped back at me.) Parents' concept of prioritization. Simply put, they pay the light bills, they set the tone for what's "good to go" at home at associated stuff....while our youth programs supplement and compliment what their money and tone establish as "good to go." I agree and disagree with my own assessment, depending upon the point of view I take when considering it (Eagle Scout circa '90, or as a Father, or through a few other classifications). Not seen two cultures who view the matter the same way yet (and that's after having worked or lived in 42 of the 50 states....sheesh!) A mixture of sales and leadership (not the rhetoric stuff, the real stuff) are the best medicine I've found to alleviate the symptoms we all seem to have experienced. Even between the two concepts of sales and leadership, there's a flexing ratio of each we should offer to the parents and to the youth. As you can guess, the ratio is generally in favor of the parents. These two concepts, when matched against reasons on how our programs meet THEIR needs wins the day (at least it has for me in my recruiting and more importantly, retention matters). Sometimes neither party is sold on the "be a better man" rationale, because that notion isn't the primary need for either group. Sometimes it is for some, but sights have fallen off target. But you folks surely know that. Lastly...in all fairness, sometimes units don't fulfill promises implied (or overtly told) that matter to some young folks. For example, the boy who joins a troop, envisioning stories of reliving "Man vs. Wild," may do a priority shift when all he's tasked to perform is popcorn sales and a once-a-year Coleman Stove Cook Off down behind the YMCA. Yup, I've seen some folks use a canned pitch to bring folks in, and then not really deliver.....and then wonder how come the Zimbabwean Stamps Collecting Club steals away good members. (Not to imply that Trail's End isn't an important financial pursuit, but it isn't high on the "coolio" meter to some young folks.) Sorry to be so long, but obviously three pages of posts confirms this isn't an easy topic with which to deal. Do take solace, though, that my beloved BSA is not the only program fighting this same dragon! NO PREACHING intended; just thinking out loud, as your peer of equal standing. Okay, perhaps lesser standing given that I'm a newer face to your forum...albeit not an untried face in the least! :-) Regards and respects for what you all do for my brother Scouts and Scouters, -Mike USAF vet Civil Air Patrol continuing member BSA "re-upped" ASM with a Boy Scout legacy to mentor!

Good morning, friends; new member to the forums, so please excuse me in advance if there's a culture here that I accidentally bump up against incorrectly... As an Air Force veteran with continued service in the Civil Air Patrol, I'm no stranger to the BSA's cousins to ribbons (these knots). Personal druthers based on personal biases and experiences? I have four BSA knots (Eagle Scout, Arrow of Light, Youth Religious Emblem of Faith, Community Organization Award). They look fine on my (now) older "red-tabbed" BSA uniform, which I've allocated for more formal events (Courts of Honor). Alternatively, the new Centennial Uniform looks more akin to the "BDU" field type uniform to me, so I've opted to leave off nearly everything. As I've mentioned before, I have personal biases re: "stuff" on uniforms. My professional USAF exposures compelled me to "bling out" at the right times and to forego trinkets at other times....which generally were standard duty functions or field activities. I concede that other services have different mantras, as well as might the BSA. But for what it's worth, we got by pretty okay in the Air Force without stopping to note if somebody had/didn't have Commendation Medals. To be clear though, I would never presume to hold my opinion over others; I'd shake hands with the most blingy Centennial Uniform-wearing Scouter as sincerely as I would another who opts to "keep it bare." Everyone can certainly have their own slant; that's one aspect of the BSA that makes this organization a fine thing from which young folks learn about life (as I certainly have and continue to do now with my own son and BSA legacy). V/R, -Mike(This message has been edited by msmjr2003)