Mr. Boyce

Oh, the problem here, as it is in other threads in this area, is that Merlyn is an absolutist. The older I get, the less wise that approach seems. You can throw the baby out with the bathwater if you do things this way. The BSA rightly deserves recognition for its public works. So much so that the public might well believe it is a good organization and worth "supporting" through use of school rooms and such. I'm a taxpayer, and it would not bother me whit if the local Buddhists used the school down the road to make blankets for orphans.

Here's what sticks in my mind: (a) we consider these cases much more significant, much more criminal, than we did 30 years ago; (b) kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation: the BSA should try to keep perverts from joining and deny membership to perverts. . . but try to keep track of, say, a pervert who moves from Cleveland to Wyoming, and you're damned. © it all shows how the computer connects information. There was much less connection between law enforcement entities in various jurisdictions back in the 50s, 60s, 70s. Because this new capability is so valuable, we now expect groups to have somehow also provided the same level of protection back BEFORE the coordination of information.

The whole "atheist" thing confuses me: Among kids, there is very often a stretch of serious question when you get to be a teenager. It's pretty clear a kid can believe he's agnostic or atheistic. I would never kick a boy out for that; I think that's a natural intellectual process taking place. . . and that more often than not, the person finds that mankind has a spiritual dimension, etc. But WHY would atheist parents okay putting their kid in a youth organization widely known as having a religious interest if they were opposed to having their child be exposed to this? I could see, for instance, an atheist parent saying, "okay, there are a lot of religious people out there, the BSA might be a good way for my Johnny to learn something about the religious." So for some atheist parents it COULD be a great kind of educational tool. I mean our culture is enormously shaped by religion. Little Johnny should probably know something about the major religions. I just don't see how the BSA would want to toss out "Reverent." That counts for something to so many of us.

People began talking about global climate change. I spent some time and decided the concept was a worthy one. Increasingly there is good factual support for this idea. I didn't deal in partisanship with that issue. I don't think we should partisanize other issues. We should look before we leap. I simply have not seen the scientific evidence for the social changes being advocated here. Give me the science, that's all.

What ways has your lodge taken to respect Native American culture? Do you seek input or advice? How authentic is your regalia?

. . . specifically regarding homosexuality and pedophilia. These forum discussions have made me looked into these areas. What have I found? (1) NO ONE KNOWS what causes homosexuality. (2) NO ONE KNOWS what causes pedophilia. SO, therefore, on the basis of ignorance, we as a nation are making huge and sweeping social changes. I'm a prudent guy, a moderate, especially with social matters, and here our various governments are jumping on political bandwagons. . . with scanty acquaintance to facts. I agree with scout policy in these areas, at minimum because it seems the better part of caution.

I say, do it! The BSA isn't the military; the uniform's a fun thing, and if you would have fun wearing it, go ahead. I dread the uniform police more than just about anything else. Don't stamp of the fun out of the program.

"Sherminator, I worked with the IL ACLU to stop charters to government entities back in 2005; however, the BSA can't be trusted to keep to its word, so all the still-illegal charters to law enforcement agencies and correctional facilities still need to be removed." This is hardly something to be proud of. It's sad to hear.

For me, the great difficulty with the atheism issue is that people come from all over the map on this one. You have some kids who are already, at a young age, quite firm in their belief. Others who just follow what they've been taught by their families and ministers. Others who are starting to independently study these things, taking some valuable steps in intellectual development. I'd have a tough time kicking any kid out on the grounds of atheism. It's so very common for young people to wander all over on the question of God's love and existence. The positive thing about scouting is that it's a pretty non-stress thing when it comes to religion, and allows some kids to learn things at their own pace.

One VERY cool thing was a red, white and blue neckerchief our scoutmaster put together; his mother sewed them, I think. VERY COOL, with an eagle on the back.

In the 70s, most scouts would buy a neckerchief, the red with black logo and strip, when they bought their uniforms. THEN at the various events, camporees, etc., you could buy or receive a neckerchief. So I've got a stack. THEN, the nice thing was you'd have a bunch of different neckerchiefs, and you'd just pick out whichever one you wanted to wear. Kind of like having a bunch of neckties in your closet. You like the blue, you go with the blue; feel like red or yellow or green, you go with those ones. These were usually triangles. I don't own any square ones.

I'm curious. I'd like to see what they report, summarize and recommend. This is 2010. The heyday of professional consultants being treated like major league savants is long over (that was probably the early 90s). But I'm still curious to see what the stuffed suits say.

wow. This fellow's raving. . .

Anyone used to get stuff there: I'm still reminiscing severely about their cool catalogue they used to do.

There's a very strong part of me that wishes he would spell his moniker with an "r"on the end of it: a proper "Beaver."

I have been stalked and attacked by heterosexuals. That does not make me hate all heteros. Or all men. And what on earth does this have to do with Merlyn. " for me it has nothing to do with Merlyn. It DOES color how I view the homosexual stuff.

You know, the tough thing for me personally about the whole homosexuality wars is that I've known a number of homosexuals who are fine people. I've also been stalked by a homosexual and abusively propositioned a few times when I was younger, so that practical experience makes me leery of the whole deal. I can't buy the whole story there; I'm a skeptic about the "homosexuality is OK" bandwagon, and the various bits of professional psychology seem all over the map on the issue. Given the BSA is a large and big bucks organization, I can appreciate an organizational mentality toward extreme litigation fears and defensive action. I think national's position is "better safe than sorry." I agree with Beavah's above comment that a LOT of youth go through an agnostic or atheist phase as a teenager. I was there once. I think many of us where. It's best for the BSA not to be stringent on this issue.

I'm just not sold on the whole "homosexuality-is-OK" bandwagon. I'm just too much of a skeptic, and I feel the issue is more complex than news bites make it out to be. I also feel the BSA's policies are meant to be defensive and keep problems from happening. Meryln comes in badgering quite a bit, so his approach can be unpleasant sounding. I just don't see how his voice will ever really make a difference, but give him credit for his energy and his laser-like focus on this one issue. On the other hand, of course, this focus means he's a one-track pony. For me, the big issue ain't changing the BSA. It's the more important one of getting our society to realize that we should live by at least some moral standards and not just by our appetites.

I should add that for us, the big "religion" issue was a non-starter. Once in a while there might be an event with an interdenominational morning service or something, and we usually blew that off; it was an individual choice.

The OP's question is interesting to me (I was a scout in a troop that was registered to a Methodist Church, but we were a bunch of everything, and none of us seemed to be interested at all in religion, and as a boy, I had a very long agnostic phase). At any rate, what do you expect? Do you want your son to make up his own mind? In that case, he should perhaps get more information on religion, and the scouts are a pretty nonconfrontational way to get more knowledgeable about it. Do you want to make his mind up for him? Then pull him from scouting and anything else that may have even a tenuous religious connection. Keep him in a lab or a bubble or something. MUCH of the intense religiosity you fear (and that I dislike seeing in scouts) is on a troop-by-troop basis. You just may have a Godless bunch in a troop near you, like I did. I'm generally not too keen on the BSA getting more and more religious or more militaryesque. I prefer the "savages in the woods" approach.

. . . in fact, if those pagans were doing positive things in the community, I'd be happy to have them meet at the school or city hall. Benefits can outweigh the airy negatives.

My little world's big enough that I can live and allow other faiths to develop and prosper, and it bothers me not if they use a schoolroom to meet. That's no official endorsement in my book. I think reasonable and serious adults aren't going to be so quibbly as the lawyers; there's a lot of good common sense out there. I may seriously object to the tenets of a faith, but we're all in this soup of life together, and I have no interest in harming anyone. It's fine in my book, say, if proselytizing pagans were to meet in a school. Doesn't touch the hair on my back none.

I think the adults should be in full uniform. Boys should at least wear a shirt. A uniform closet or uniform exchange is a good way to go.

I'd only wear it for OA events. I mean, that's what it's for.

As a kid, I had a couple collarless and one with a collar. I liked the collarless: you could opt to wear a neckerchief, or if it was hot, go without one. The collarless shirt was cooler. Of course, there were no uniform nazis in my old troop. We were casual.