Gone

I know this is an old thread, but still being unable to create a new one this seemed like the right place to post. We have a few Scouts who could not make our District's tap out this year (mandatory band thing). They are not going to summer camp this year because they are doing NT and it is too expensive for them to do both. District is not doing any unit-based tap outs but the boys really don't want to miss out on the tap out ceremony. Is there any written policy that would preclude trained OA members in our unit from doing our own tap out? We have a Scouter who as a youth was the lead for his District's tap out team for 5 years. He knows all the current do/don'ts and has trained out guys in the ceremony. Other than ticking off someone at the Lodge who might want total control over what goes on in the District, would be break any rules doing this at the unit level?

Well that's the lovely thing about membership organizations, you can always leave and start your own if you want or find another that fits your belief system. If I don't like AARP I can find another senior's group to belong to. Don't like my college because they encourage anti-conservative or liberal values? I can find myself a college that fits my belief system without forcing the obvious majority of people at said college to conform to mine.

Seems a simple question to me, and in my mind it certainly should mean interpretation A. Unfortunately, it seems to me that National has been following interpretation B for the last few decades, which doesn't seem to be logically correct in any way I can see. Hmmm...how so? Because I don't know of many major religions that would condone same-sex anything. I have not seen BSA tilting pro-Christian. Certainly not the way it was when us old farts were Scouts. What specific policies has BSA pushed in the last 20 years that have been solely pro-Christian? Just curious.

Yeah, unfortunately the new interface is rather touchy when you go back to edit, so I have to use the new English they are teaching in schools these days.

Problem is a Scout can get Eagle without really being active as long as he is registered, in good standing and either can meet (or attempt to meet) the minimum standards for being "active" for his unit OR provide a reasonable explanation as to what he has been doing with his time. BSA in the GTSS has essentially watered down what being active entails. I know most units have attendance requirements for leadership positions, but few have it written in their bylaws for just an average Scout. So if I am a Life Scout without a leadership position, in most troops I am not required to attend any % of meetings or camp outs...officially. Our troop amended our bylaws for this very reason. The problem Sqyire, is that in many councils there are Scouts getting Life by 13 and then dropping off the radar entirely to focus on other stuff. They work on Eagle but they are really not involved in their troops or Scouting. Some do the very least they can do to meet any "active" litmus test just so they can get Eagle. It is for their resume for college, nothing more. I think the reason many want to "slow a Scout down" is so they 1) develop deep skills, 2) get full benefit of what Scouting is about, and 3) learn to give back to their troop. I had a coach when I was a kid who played professional sports. We were lucky to have him as a coach since he played at the top level of his game. Back then it was unheard of to have a guy like him coaching a bunch of 11 year-olds. He told us something that always stuck with me, he said "Make sure when you are done with your career -- regardless of what it is, sports, a club, a church -- that you give back to that group. If you continue to take from the well without giving back, the well will run dry." That simple statement has ALWAYS stuck with me and many of my generation. I think the problem is these days there is no sense of stewardship. Kids finish their business and move on. Heck, few even say "thank you" let along give back to their troop. I go back to what BD said, it is about the journey not the destination.

As I said in the other forum the cost difference is a few bucks for like services between the two software. ;-) I've done the math recently.

Thanks for the note. According to the current hydro tables they are getting plenty of water this year. Not doing any HA stuff...all new Scouts mostly since most of our guys are doing Philmont this summer. Thanks!

If a Scout loses a blue card in a house fire and we happen to have his partial info in TM, we can reissue his blue card and send a note to the next counselor noting what happened. Never had a Scout turned away yet. On the other hand, we HAVE had counselors turn away Scouts for losing their blue card essentially saying "tough luck, start over". Ergo, we keep records.

There is nothing in what I posted that does not put the onus on the boy in out troop. Merely, we have a large troop with 70+ boys. Every COH we have roughtly 200+ MBs to hand out. We don't do MBs at meeting. Our troop is blessed enough to have professionals from many walks of life who have medical, dental, military or other specialized training that allows us to offer classes to our Scouts (outside of regular meetings) where the boys can learn something new. Classes are kept small so the boys learn something. This is no differerent than a boy going out and getting an MB counselor on his own. We post the class openings and the boys have to sign up and manage their class work on their own. If a parent sneaks online durng the day (dead give away is during school hours) and signs their son up we kick it right back out and tell them to let the Scout manage their work. As a troop we have a responsibility to know what our boys are doing which is why we track partials and completions. If a record is lost, National will accept the troop's record as a back up PLUS it makes it easier for us to enter the data into the national DB so that they have the record too. I would hate to tell ANY kid "tough luck" if his house burnt down or tornado hit his house that he's SOL because he did not have his records in a strong box and it's his fault. Troops keep records -- especially larger troops -- so we can be there to support our Scouts should they need us. The boys are plenty responsbile...in fact, perhaps even more so. BTW, we track partials as a way of 1) knowing if a boy is working on too much already, or 2) identifying a Scout who may start something and not finish it. With the software in place, tracking partials is no harder than tracking camping nights, service hours or anything else. Doing it in software allows us to run reports and know fast who our Lifeguards are, who needs canoe training before our float trip, who can plan our Philmont training hikes, who does/doesn't need climbing or firearms certification, etc. So I would argue the software and tracking we do SAVES us time. Trust me, I've done it manually AND with software and the latter is by far less time consuming and allows me to focus on other things.

- Tracking what requirements Bobby doesn't finish should he get a partial - Keeping a permanent record (not paper) that has a back-up in case Bobby loses his Blue Card - Being able to run a report on how many MBs were earned or ranks were award to qualify for JTE or other unit honors - Being able to give group credit if you have 20 guys taking Basketry and not having to fill out the same spreadsheet 20 times for the same thing - Having a file that can be imported into Internet Advancement so that National has a record of the Scout's work (and for free rank patches) - Tracking when badges have been awarded or not in case Bobby does not attend the COH - Being able to provide online or printed reports for Bobby when he asks for them so he can make sure his Handbook matches the Troop database (seen way too many Scouts find surprises in their records when going for Eagle without these periodic checks) - Allows Scoutmasters to view every Scout's status on how many completed and partial MBs he has to help them manage their Scout careers and determine what each Scout's interest is to better tailor their SMC discussions - Use the software to match counselors with Scouts or to identify where a troop might need a counselor - To reduce the amount of time we as volunteers spend managing out program These are a few of the reasons we use software and have an ASM assigned as MB advisor. He manages the whole process and is the contact point for all things MB. I can tell you if I had to do all of this manually (70+ boys) I would spend four time the amount of time I currently spend just managing that aspect of the program. For a medium-sized troop (for my area) Troopmaster is a God send.

@BD: We did something very similar. We have a monthly cook off on Saturday dinner where the winner gets a leather patch and 5pts for his patrol. They get an award called the "Golden Whisk" which is passed from patrol to patrol each month based on the cooking winner. We do special ribbons for events like orienteering, pioneering, nature, etc. At the end of every 6 months the patrol with the most points gets pizza (Dutch oven, of course) with the Scouters. We have seen a real esprit de corps form after a while. We now have patrols racing to take down/set up camp the fastest (points lost if not done correctly or dangerously), as well as guys actually CLEANING gear better to get points for any surprise inspection that might happen. The PLC has embraced this concept and has begun awarding and tracking the points. So far all has worked very well.

Good luck. My state...a very gun friendly state...there ain't none to be had.

@BW, I think you missed my post where I put the costs out there directly from the TM website. Let me recap: You can buy TM for $41/year on a three year license. That gets you TM and DotNet which allows you to have it installed on several machined. I am in a large troop and we have plenty of people accessing TM from laptops, desktops. This makes TM cheaper by nearly half than the other software you mention. Now you need to have a website, right? SOAR allows you to have a full featured website which does everything the other software you mention does AND integrates with TM to update your site so your Scouts can see their status. You can update this as much as you want. You ALSO get troop email, patrol emails, calendars, event registration, online payments, etc. ALL of this for just $15 more than what you pay. I posted the prices from each software's website so there was no mistake what the costs were. *If* you want TM web access, which is not really needed IMHO, you can add that and then it does indeed cost $180/year. However, you don't really need that unless you feel compelled to make changes to TM from your mobile phone or iPad. Otherwise, I have all I need with TM+SOAR which includes a robust website and the full features of TM for just $15 more a year. To answer your question about SOAR, it is a competitor to Troopwebhosts. The features and functionality of SOAR is slightly better than Troopwebhosts IMHO. When you add the fact your can integrate TM with it (which is a mere click of a button) that's a HUGE advantage. The issue with managing two pieces of software is not that hard. When we "on board" a new Committee member or SM we walk them through the install and everything is so user-friendly it is never an issue. Add to that the fact TM is like PM the learning curve is even lower. We looked at Troopwebhost a while back when we were looking at SOAR+TM and found this to be the best course for us.

My troop got 100 5' 3" closet dowels from a local lumber store. They donated to use so cost us nothing. I bought the rope and now we have all of our pioneering supplies.

Just checked the various websites of the two products listed. I saw: 1) Troopwebhost: $99/year + $15/year for own URL 2) Troopmaster: $41/year (based on a three year license with TM and DotNet access making it "cloud" based and multiuser) We add SOAR on to that (@$89/year) and we get the full features of that site + TM which is a bit more robust than Troopwebhost for us $15 more a year. While both products likely meet the needs of troops just a bit differently, I would suggest that the gap between the two is not so great. In fact, Tm being the more robust for advancement mgmt., if you are willing to spend $15 more a year the TM+SOAR option is very, very nice.

A buddy of mine mentioned that Mexico has tons of .22 shot. Oh the ramifications of getting a hold of that.