Gone

Already done. We don't make a move without them. It is their status, not ours.

Yup...and that is what we do now. But that leaves the detailed final plan still undone...or done at the last moment or after the project. And rarely does the final plan match the draft plan. So I was trying to find a way to coach the candidates better without 1) adding a requirement, and 2) adding/subtracting from the process. What I am hearing here is a validation of my thought around compelling the candidates to finish their final plan and present that with their draft proposal for sign off (of the proposal, not the final plan). Exactly. The off things is some of these guys spend hours (we are talking 80+ hours) on school and science projects that would make an engineer blush, so why do they "mail it in" sometimes when it comes to Scouts. We have documented our process, mapped it directly to the requirements and the BSA published Eagle process and are outlining what is expected at each step. I even have a feedback sheet that mirrors the draft proposal for comments to be made. After review of the draft proposal (and the final plan) we will sign the draft proposal. I think this keeps us within all guidelines and the boys get better advice. Consequently the projects are better.

If you are implying scouts cannot be tested, all I can say is I am following #8 under Counseling Techniques in the document below. Testing is most certainly allowed. http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/18-125.pdf

Well, an update. Our unit found a tax lawyer who is a Boy Scout leader and spent 20 years as an IRS auditor. He's helping the unit to set up our fund raising program and literature to stay compliant with this new development. According to him, we can still keep out account system, boys can still raise funds for their own purpose....all with only minor modifications to our process, sales pitch and documentation. And he's doing it all pro bono. So if a small unit in the western US can do that, why can't BSA?

We heard of a unit who had a dad attending summer camp and had his son and a friend sleep in his truck with him. Made darn sure the camp director was aware of that one. Had that been my unit that parent would have been on the first train out of camp. We've gone to putting together a one page sheet of the do's, donts, and expectations of the adults at camp. The boys are fine, it's the adults that require the most management.

@Twocubdad, your approach is exactly what our unit follows now. District is not a problem and our EPs exceed what they are looking for. Sadly, that bar is not very high. My concern was getting the Scouts to input as much detail as possible in their draft plan, rather than the one sentence responses we have been getting lately. That's why is was thinking that, since there is nothing I can find in the documentation prohibiting it, I would hold the approval signature n the draft proposal until after we saw the detailed final plan. That process would seem to be in line with BSA's directive around not approving the final plan, but would still allow the units to see the additional thought the scouts need to demonstrate. The other side of that rock is more scouts having to re-do their project for lack of leadership as a result of poor planning. If a scout (or his parents) want to blow the whistle on me to District, they can be my guest. My unit won't be handing out Eagle. We do that too much (collectively) as an organization already. Thanks for the feedback.

Technically, you can switch any time you want...it is just easier in the summer.

Sorry for the tread-jack, but I did not want to start another thread since I think this question might be related. The Eagle workbook requires the draft proposal to be signed off which indicates approval to begin the project. The detailed project plan, while not requiring approval (which I read as rquiring a review and signature), is alledged to be used as the template for the project's execution...or so it would seem from the excerpt below. I have found the draft proposals to be too light, despite the fact they meet the requirements outlined above. Because they are light the document does little to help the Scout develop the detail needed for the detailed "final plan". Lastly, when Scouts get those draft plan signatures they are usuall off and running with their projects, perhaps paying only little attention to doing the final plan prior to project execution or even doing it after the fact. So here's my question. I suspect the answer is that the Eagle "coach" (or whatever) should ask to see the final plan before project start. Assuming that is not done, does anyone see a reason why the SM could not ask to see a copy of the final plan before they sign off on the draft plan? How have others handled this?

I would be upfront about my past and still volunteer. Let BSA sort it out. From my conversations with scout execs, they are looking for felons and sex offenders, not guys in your position. Heck, remind them there are Scouts who have stolen things and are still in Scouting.

It is to test their retention of the knowledge so they can demonstrate mastery of the material. We use the EDGE method when the badge is taught and where to the GTA, as well as the Guide for Merit Badge Counseling.

To see what they have retained as part of the course.

Most units do Scouting for Food, Eagle projects and usually something to help their charter organization. That's a bare minimum I have seen.

Gosh I hope so...I was reading the label on my cool table-top theater-style popcorn popper. Hell, even made a batch because this thread made me hungry. Can we start a margarita thread? Am getting thirsty.

Oddly enough I have heard the same thing, from a similar source with a very different answer. Funny how that works.

So....you send a group of boys out without adults? Didn't think this was allowed by BSA.

So is this training required by your Council? Sounds like someone got bored and wanted to make themselves relevant somehow. Is there lighter training too?

LOL...said the same thing at a recent TC meeting. The looks I got could have killed.

^^^^^ This!!! ROFL!!!