Gone

Picture Seabase with mud and trees and you have he picture.

@@Twocubdad, "scrambled eggs"....military brat or former military?

@@BDPT00, if you find any units that have experience with Autism-spectrum kids you might want to direct them here. They can work with this organization to get "certified" as Autism-friendly. The families with Autistic kids are great at finding sites like this. If these families can find troops accepting of such kids it may reduce placing these kids in the wrong unit to begin with. I suspect the biggest problems come from ADD/ADHD kids. Families with kids with more profound needs usually ask a ton of questions and know before they enter a unit if that group will be right or wrong. It is the ADD/ADHD spectrum -- or parents who don't give a darn -- who may not do that due diligence. Well, that's been my experience.@ might have another perspective.

Just shared with my scouter list. You should see some hits from the Great West!

Not really a tough crowd, you just hit a raw nerve. We seem to tip toe around certain issues while other issues we flat out commit political incorrectness galore. No ill-will perceived on my part, just a coaching point. If I were in your shoes (I assume you are in the district leadership?) I would do the following to help these units: Find a unit(s) and families that are successfully dealing with special needs kids. Find out their strategies, the successes and failures. Identify where you (or someone in your district) can take some basic training. the special needs spectrum is huge and the strategies to cope with various kids is different. Hold a RT or focus group on the subject. We do this for camping, cooking, program planning, etc., why not for how to manage special needs kids. Have guest speaker who can give real life strategies. After you have the training you can put together an action plan for units, perhaps even partner with an organization to provide district-based training. We did this in my area (was run by our unit since the district is so self-important and not interested in such things). I suspect the most common special needs (no quotes) will be ADD/ADHD, Aspergers spectrum, dietary/allergy needs, behavioral disorder, maybe higher-functioning Autism but that is rare. Again, most families dealing with these things, especially Aspergers and Autism spectrum, already have coping and managing tactics. You'll find families coping with ADD/ADHD either have extreme experience and good strategies OR you have the parents who have given up and are looking for you to baby sit. As to the videos, I think they are a good resource. However, gotta say I would have done things a bit differently. The narrative in the first five minutes is similar to how you started off this thread. Again, I go back to the gay issue. If you did a training video on how to deal with gay scouts and took this approach you'd be flayed by the more liberal folks here. The BIGGEST issue in dealing with special needs people is treating them like people from the start. The first 15 mins or so are spent convincing leaders that helping a special needs scout is worthwhile. From my point of view if you have ANY leader unwilling to help ANY youth they are in the wrong role. Would you spend 15-20 mins convincing a leader off the efficacy of helping inner city kids? Probably not, so why do it with special needs kids? After the first 15 mins you get in to how to identify and understand these conditions. Well done! Parts 2-4 are VERY well done! For those who have no clue about special needs kids this should help. Your council should offer this up to other councils for use. I would keep this far away for national...they will just muck it up. Kudos for having a council that cares about an important issue. I may move to MN.

My only concern with the original post was the reference to special needs kids as being pains in the butt. If I said that about a gay kid I would be tarred and feathered by most in this forum. My only point was to note that special needs kids, while challenging, are just as deserving of our understanding, support and patience as gay, straight, black, white or any other scout. That said, my points still stand. There are resources where leaders can get trained. HOWEVER, I personally don't feel a unit should take on a special needs scout UNLESS the parent(s) have skin in the game and will be there to help, advise and co-manage. Other than that, managing special needs scouts are the same as any other scout, but that support and training must be in place. Exactly! No better way for a scout to show he lives by the Oath and Law than by helping a special needs kid. ^^^^ THIS. No offense meant @@BDPT00, but this statement and the 'pain in the butt" statement seem to indicate you don't have first-hand experience in successfully dealing with special needs kids. If you are using these phrases as hyperbole to draw attention to this matter then maybe I understand. If not, it rings a bit inflammatory and not understanding of the issue. On a personal note, I am more than happy to help you in any way possible. This is obviously a very personal issue for me and I know many parents of special needs kids see scouting as a way for their son to feel accepted and "normal". Anything I can do to help ANY kid like that feel and see success and growth I am happy to help!

Wouldn't kids with backpacks in Europe just fit in with the other 200,000 under 20s backpacking around?

I have a special needs scout, as well as having a few in our unit. Having lived this issue for the last 15 years I can speak with some authority. A few comments: I take issue with the comment "these kids can be a real pain in the butt". That's not exactly nice, let alone correct. I have had MORE issue with "normal" kids than I have EVER had with special needs kids. In fact, kids with food allergies were more "a real pain in the butt" than any special needs kid. A little sensitivity and perspective would be good here. God forbid BSA get involved in special needs training. There are better resources out there from which to take training than BSA could ever do. Try your local school district, colleges or universities have great programs geared toward teachers and parents on dealing with special needs kids. Some hospitals or research centers also have such training. There are also pediatric or autism-spectrum organizations that have conventions, continuing education and other training. ANY of those would be BY FAR superior to anything BSA could do. Kids with needs are, for the most part, just like any other kid. Learning what motivates and inspires them is the key. If you approach treating these kids differently you've made your first mistake. Parent cooperation and involvement is KEY!!! If a parent just drops the kid off, are absent or uninvolved, or worse...are in denial as to their scout's condition, then you MUST have a sit down and discuss how to manage and help the scout. Parents MUST be involved with special needs kids. If they have problems managing them then the scout unit will see that ten fold. The parent is the BEST resource to help manage and control a special needs kid. I will say this, we have an Autistic scout earning his Eagle this year. He earned everything without accommodation (lessened requirements). I could not be prouder of this young man. He's had a few moments over the years, but the sense of satisfaction I get from seeing this young man stand on his own and reach Eagle is akin to how I feel at my own son's accomplishments. At the risk of sounding pedantic I would urge folks to have some compassion and understanding with these scouts. They may be a handful, but if you get the training -- and get the support and involvement of the parents -- managing these kids is no more an issue than managing "normal" kids. I'm getting down off my soap box now.

I found that wording on page 61 interesting. It reads as if PWC are verboten UNLESS the council somehow certifies the program at their own camp. Wondering how that gets done. Having PWCs at a waterfront is dangerous unless they are used FAR away from all other craft. Accident waiting to happen. Why not allow councils to have go-kart tracks?

Our troop ran a rain gutter regatta by digging trenches along the hill side and holding heats between the troops in our area. We must have had 300 people in our area all wanting to race. We had a wood boat class, organic boat class (leaves, reeds, grass), ironclad class (anything heavy on something that floated) and a paper class. It was hilarious. The director even gave use prizes to give away from the trading post. Ah, youth.

When they say "council use" I assume that means ATVs can only be used at council camps? Or is that by council staff? How's your council getting away with PWC like Jetskis? Did they get "certified" to use them by national? See page 61.

No. But you cannot use wood or charcoal during burn bans. Where my brother lives in west Texas they have a state park that has only lifted their burn ban once in the last seven years!!

I think it was Alexander or Woodruff that had Citizenship in the Universe one year. MB was Mr. Spock.

Depends on where you live. In much of the west there is severe drought and fire danger. Red flag warnings keep our unit from having open fires or using charcoal. Heck, even liquid accelerant cannot be used which rules out many other cooking fuels. In most areas it is propane only.

Making sure your unit or the camp has a good set of night activities is helpful to making the whole experience fun. You can see what each camp does and then add your own unit-based stuff (dessert contest, campfire, movie night, etc.). I know a few camps that do night hikes, night golf/frisbee, volleyball or other stuff. Several camps have trips outside the camp (e.g., Mt. Rushmore). Pretty cool.

Well, I cannot say this is my "best" memory but the 1977 Jamboree at "More Rain" State Park stands out. Having to dig trenches around our regiment tents in order channel the water around (or through) our tents was probably my starkest memory. To be honest I don't recall meals or events because it literally rained every day EXCEPT the opening and the close. I recall being wet and cold and having to wear those (cotton) yellow shirts. The Merit Badge "Mudway" was fun....if only to run down the concourse and dive head first to slide 50 yards.

Unless the Librarian keeps all sorts of pubs like SPL and pl handbooks, planning guides,etc.

Well said. @@blw2 our PLC meets every June to plan the following year. They bring school calendars, band calendars, sports schedules (or last year's schedule since they change little), religious calendars (to plan around major holidays), and put 12 months of calendars on the wall. They put all those dates on the calendars and THEN plan around it. They add in troop meetings and meal planning 2-3 weeks prior to camp outs. They work in national high adventure base submission deadlines. They work in our standard service projects and all sorts of other dates. When they get all those dates on the board, they then discuss where to go. The PLs work with their patrols to keep a list of ideas and bring that with them. The adults help with logistics because sometimes the kids don't understand basic physics and the laws of time, space and dimension (e.g., We can't drive to CA and back in a three day weekend, but we can do it for spring break). The PLC even works out sample budget and costs. Like @@perdidochas, our TC only validates, rarely overrules. The TC works up the costs based on the budget the PLC submits. If there are discrepancies they send it back to the PLC to work on. BTW, this was the beginning of becoming boy-led several years ago. Annual planning was the perfect chance to get the boys to buy in to the process...and for the adults to learn to but-the-heck out. Start with that and working from there helped out unit big time!

Ditto. Only use white gas under certain conditions (winter camp, anything above 10,000ft).

Not to split hairs, but is there a difference between boy-run and boy-led? Reason I ask is because, for me, boy-led is allowing the SPL and the PLs to lead and make the decisions. Those decisions are then executed by either the boy or adult leadership teams. Boy-run, on the other hand, would suggest (to me, anyway) that the boys run the whole show; inclusive of planning and execution of all aspects of the unit. This is a MUCH larger task and, I believe, outside of what is meant by boy-led. That's my take anyway.

Correct. As would using any of the many pdf archives that are on the Internet these days. I know a scouter who surfs the net to find these pdfs and saves them up to a cloud share for his unit. Not exactly scout-like.

@@LeCastor, to be serious for us it breaks down like this: Scouts look for a water front or water activities, MB offerings (either stuff they can't earn locally or well-run specialty badges), training and other "fun stuff". Free time is key. Dinning hall is a big thing. They consider it a break from the usual camping. Nice facilities (toilets, showers, tents) are also high on the punch list. Different locations (e.g., something that doesn't look like home) and travel are also big. Sight-seeing along the route too (Route 66, Mt. Vernon, etc.). Good food!!!! Scouters look for much of the same things the boys do (training, free time, nice facilities). I'd say training is a big one. Having a SM-lounge with WiFi to post pics, update troop blogs or FB pages is important too.

Not sure I agree with the last bit. Old boys networks are a problem and unless you join them you have no shot at changing them. Once in, changing them is darn near impossible until you get more guys like you to join. Waste of effort IMHO which could be re-directed to making your unit and your boys better.

MS Access database (really). Cataloged by the Librarian. Lending hours are the first and third meeting days 30 mins prior to the meeting start. New books are actively added to the holdings, cataloged and added to the DB. The DB is on flash drive (trying to get it in the cloud) and someone brings a laptop to check in/out holdings. Print outs and reports can be run. Outstanding items are tracked and recovered by the Librarian.

Training for leaders. Meeting for parents where we emphasize boy-led and patrol method. Have the boys deliver the latter.