Gone

So QM is okay but Class B is somehow taboo? I think there are bigger fish to fry.

So, following that we should eliminate the follow from the Scout jargon: Reveille (and all bugle calls), KP, mess hall, cantine (aka trading post), QM, patrol, troop, parade ground, assembly, muster, etc.? The entire concept of scouting was based off of the military by LBP. We can still use the terms and avoid being run like a paramilitary unit.

Good sections. Have had the fortune to do all sections north of Ashville, NC.

@@Oldscout448, Wood Badge typically means the advice giver thinks they're always right. In my experiences most WBers are too full of themselves. You did nothing wrong. Sounds like you did the right thing and in the right manner.

Class A is uniform shirt, shorts and socks. Class A Formal is with sash. Class B is troop shirt (a polo style shirt), uniform shorts and socks. Class C is troop t-shirt. We have one color (red) which is standard. At summer camp we have one per day (red, green, yellow, orange, blue) and scout shorts/socks.

Troop Guide.

Just to bump the OP about how to get adults to understand boy-led, one of our SPLs came up with a great idea: Parent Meeting. Planned and run by the PLs and SPL. Topic: When adults' help is needed. Worked like a charm.

You forgot the garters.

...and frisbees during free time. Lord those things were ugly.

At the risk of sounding self-serving, the story I have was from my own son. He's a special needs kid and was taking therapeutics riding at a local ranch. Back in '08 the ranch fell on hard times and donations were dropping, thus they could support fewer and fewer kids in need. My son heard the owner taking about having to turn kids away due to lack of budget. Having heard that and knowing there were kids in need he said, "Mr. Smith, someone can have my place. I've improved a lot and don't need the riding as much as some of the other kids...and I'm a Boy Scout, so we should I should help others." We left the decision with my son and he gave his spot up to a profoundly disabled young man. The smile on my son's face was enormous due to the satisfaction he got from helping that boy. I STILL tear up thinking about his act of generosity. Heading back home that day I told him that, in my eyes, his selfless act meant more to me and made him a better Scout (and person) than making Eagle would ever do. He agreed.

What section of the AT did you do?

Spent a great deal of time in WVA (Dolly Sods, Seneca, Monongalia NF, etc.). Getting a signal in the mountains is rough. If you hit the SPC site before you heads out you can see the patterns and know what to expect. Might luck out in to a signal up towards Elkins or Morgantown, further east towards Harper's Ferry for sure. SW towards Charleston is also a bit easier. East of that towards Slatyfork and along that ridge line, good luck. If doing a search for the SAME coded station for your location does not work, try setting the SAME code manually. Codes can be found here. Some radios are not very user friendly but if you take the time to work through the menu system you can really customize your radio.

@@Stosh, you'll love this. Went to camp in NM one year. A small unit (12 boys) from AZ were there. They wore the COMPLETE uniform from 1968....including the folding cap. They looked SHARP! One of the mom (Native American) was a seamstress and made them from a pattern for all the boys. Got the caps on EBay. Our unit wears Class A for AM and PM meals as well as flags. Quick truck back to camp and swap out Class A shirt for Class C (color of the day). Class B is in their day pack for lunch meal wearing. The mental impact, and patrol spirit, being uniform promotes should never be underestimated.

I will say only this about wearing the uniform: - Before the current boy leaders joined our unit we wore the uniform only at meetings. At summer camp it was a fashion free for all. We had very good boy leadership but the attitude was very laid back. Too casual. The boy leaders tried to correct that but the institutional history of not wearing the uniform bread a culture of discontinuity. - When the current leaders took over they started the tradition of wearing the uniform everywhere. Created Class B and Class C uniforms and wore them 100% at summer camp. The mind set of the scouts changed. It became a communication game to see if patrols would remember what color of Class C to wear to events. Very Heartbreak Ridge (hint: bad Clint Eastwood movie). The difference is not just happenstance. In our case wearing of the uniform had a direct impact on how the boys perceived each other and the increased level of discipline which was evident.

@@Stosh, our COR supports us 100% and has for 30 years. I have no idea what a UC or DE look like because they have never visited us and only send me email requests for information THEY need from me, so no worries there.

@@packsaddle,@@qwazse and everyone.... Almost forgot my other bit of outdoor advice, pick yourself up a NOAA weather radio. Radio Shack sells a multi band one which is very rugged. These are OUTSTANDING things to have in your car and backpack. They scan all channels for the local NOAA stations near you. You can program to get nearly ANY type of warning such as severe weather, snow, fire, flood, hurricane, Etc. A must have piece gear!!!

@@Stosh, you'll love this. I was emailed by a parent asking me to step in to an issue. Their son wanted to cook on the next camp out, missed the meeting and someone else got assigned, wanted me to step in and "fix it". I replied, "Have your son call his PL and discuss it, let him know he wants to cook and resolve the issue." The parent's response was nothing short of incredulity. Of course the outcome was predictable: The PL said, "Sure!", the patrol member is happy and the adult is now a convert to the boy-led and patrol method....and all I had to do was send one email to a parent.

BTW, here's a super cell I was following yesterday. Dropped three tornados along a major highway. Thankfully no one was injured but the spring crops of two farms and a wind turbine were taken out.

Welcome to the Great Plains! I have to chuckle a bit when is see folks from the two other ends of the country visit us. They look outside see clear sky and think, "What a beautiful day!". Folks who live here are thinking, "Chance of tornados today." Two things I can HIGHLY recommend. First, take the advanced spotter training from NOAA's SkyWarn group. This is a free course and well worth the time. Both the basic and advanced classes teach how to recognize inclement weather signs hours before the results can been see or felt. Class link here: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/skywarn/ After you take that class check out the Storm Prediction Center's website. Once you learn to navigate and read this data you will be able to follow and predict where the inclement weather will hit. You will see watches and warnings in real time, EXACTLY when weathermen on TV see them. Website for SPC is here: http://www.spc.noaa.gov While the BSA training is better than nothing, this training is like taking WRFA or native nail camping school or LNT Trainer training. You'll become a regular weatherman. Training your boys in this area is KEY. Our unit started this five years ago and our guys rock at weather watching.

Scouters MUST read the PL Handbook and the Field Book if they are going to help their Scouts. Our Instructors train all new PLs on troop operations, the PL Handbook and the core skills needed to operate on the majority of our camp outs. That's our TLT. We don't review org charts or other useless stuff. We focus on the PLs, troop ops and "how to's". Train the Instructors takes the Scouters out of the equation. They train the PLs and the PLs execute. But the Scouters need to read the same stuff to advise the PLs should they come asking.

We are lucky. We have our own room (18w x 20l x 12h). We can store all of our gear in there and then some. It is secured. Our meeting space is huge!! 45x45 with a 20ft ceiling. A/V, stage and enough room to bring the meeting inside when the weather does not cooperate. Having a great CO makes up for having such a lousy district.

Council is okay. Not great but okay. They listen to units because they want us to use their camps. District can be summed up best by @@desertrat77 post above. Council at least tries to work with units because they know that if units fold their jobs may not be around.

Don't hold your breath @@Stosh. BSA is essentially run like a non-profit organization. Those organizations are notorious for layers of management and poorly implemented programs. Leadership, while possible, is not a core competency of non-profits. What BSA needs are some retired Fortune 500 execs to come in and really build an infrastructure that can work.

Nope. All district cares about is getting info from us. Where do we go to summer camp (already asked and answered two years ago)? What are our JTE numbers? How many people did we recruit? What are our training stats? I have never seen a UC. I have never heard from my DE. My DC doesn't use my name in emails, just generically refers to me as "Key 3 member". The RTs are a waste of time. The training is a joke and has not changed in decades. I get 10 times more from reading this forum than I have EVER gotten from district.

Vanity. Control. Power. Low self-esteem. Oddly enough I find there's a high correlation between the number of knots, patches and sashes an adult wears and their incessant need for recognition and power.