Gone

@@Stosh, my brother is in TX. MT is a great place. Tons of great camping. Bear protocol important.

This would be reverse Carpetbagging, and west and north, not south. As for "drawl" it's more like "draw".

[Resisiting joke about teen boys and babysitter interest]

If you don't mind the stage coach ride. Here in the "republic" we're a simple, backwards folk.

I simply gave an opinion which was my own and did so in a non-threatening or derogatory manner. If that gets me slapped, so be it.

Happy to have you guys come fix the problem. We've tried for years and it didn't work.

I'm a member of the one most conservative religions on the planet and no one, from priest to pope, promote that these things are the result of bad parenting. I do know some churches that are that are that whacked out, but not the religion itself. If you're willing to share I'd be curious to know what denomination was pushing this agenda.

IMHO, increasing membership and 1) are diametrically opposed objectives if 1) is full institution of the "local option".

Five patrols. Patrol members bring ideas to their PL. PLs bring to the PLC. Top 5 camps are discussed in a troop-wide meeting. We vote and the top camp is selected with the other vote getters being fall back. Research is done by the scouts with help from the adults.

Set the Example: In appearance, manner and deed. Communicate: Meet, call and talk to your patrol. Think Ahead: Learn to think/communicate weeks ahead, not days or hours ahead. Be Organized: Know what events are coming up, teach your patrol their role. Delegate: Let the others in the patrol do their job, if they don't know help them or get them trained.

We have a few options. 1) Our adult leaders as the PLC each planning year which MBs they want us to staff. They boys give us a list and the adults develop the course. The boys establish the schedule and plan out all else. The adults get the experts and put on the class. The MBC establishes the cirricculum and the course work. These are the unit-based MBs. 2) Summer camp is the next method. The boys do research all year prior to our planning meeting to identify places they want to go and MBs they way to take. These locations are voted on by the troop. Unused locations are kept by the scribe for future consideration. 3) Local programs (museums, ranches, parks) will,put on specialty programs (e.g., horsemanship, animal husbandry, forestry, etc.). Adults and scouts alike look for these programs and being them to the PLC. 4) We network with other units to share MBCs. 19 units have banded together to keep and share this info. District does not provide this information. 5) Council has an outdated list. It is a last resort. We help scouts validate external MBCs and we encourage parents to attend with their scouts to keep two deep intact.

@@oldisnewagain1, @@mgood777, thanks!

I'll bite. Many COs don't know they own the unit. It is more a pilot fish/shark relationship than a parent/offspring relationship. Units in my area are seen as groups that use CO resources and give back in various ways for that privilege.

Yes. We do two things. First, we have a fund-raiser specifically for our CO. They really don't need the money but we do it anyway. Second, we have our COR sitting on their board. When something comes up that needs doing, we step up and help. The services we provide FAR out pace our monetary donation...and goes a lot further with the congregation too.

We agree that networking and fellowship should begin and end with who we are, not what we wear. I don't judge people who wear 15 knots as being total pratts at first, but I have found the correlation to be high. Even outside of my district I see this behavior. I was at a summer camp where the guy teaching IOLS fell ill. I heard this and volunteered to teach in in stead. I noted I'd done this many times before and my council training chair was in camp with us, so he verified things for the CD. The CD met with my council rep (not with me) and said I did not look like I had the experience needed; in other words, my uniform lacked the knots and beads he was looking for. So rather than give up my (paid and non-refunable) week of backpacking through the Sierras to help them, I went on my trek. I think this attitude which permeates my district goes wider than you think.

Serious Question: What are the pins on knots for? I assume earning it more than once?

No, my chuckle was internal. I'd never disrespect someone openly and never in front of the scouts. Privately, when I am no longer wearing the uniform and enjoying an adult carbonated malt-based beverage with my scouting brethren, we will have a private laugh. I get wanting to show the kids you've "been there, done that", but in my opinion, that's not what we are there for. I don't recall my SM wearing a single thing on this uniform and we ALL respected him through his actions and deeds. I don't believe the measure of a man is what he wears over his heart, but rather what is in his heart. I *do* think that the attainment and wearing of these knots and beads does more to promote that "us versus them" mentality we are discussing in the district thread. Let's face it, most of the kids have no clue what all those knots are for...nor, in my experience, do they care. The kids know when you do or don't know something. One could argue, if you are applying the patrol method and boy-led mantra correctly, the boys may never know if I can even tie a square knot. Side Note: I wonder how many scouters nationwide, who have disdain for the use of military terms in scouting, have a plethora of knots on their chest. The stats might be pretty ironic.

Yes, but it does not always mean they know what they're talking about. And since supply does not restrict their purchase in some areas, they may not have even been earned. Being an extrovert myself I usually find that I can sum up a person through conversation pretty fast, which will also tell me if they're worth all those awards or not (knot, as the case may be). Of course they can. But the correlation between the number of knots/awards/beads you have and the level of condescension one gives his high. I had to laugh when I saw a scouter wearing his 1973 Jamboree patch in the temporary insignia area on his class A. It's been over 40 years, does he need that much validation of who he is in his life? Frankly, I think as scouters we should wear only those things we earned as scouters (save for Eagle and AOL). I earned tons of awards, medals and patches as a youth (world jambo) but I don't go around sporting it.

Since district does nothing for us we are literally unaffected. Council provides NYLT, camps and a scout shop. We use (and staff) NYLT, use the camps slightly and the shop is okay....but we need paperwork for knots and everything else...even if they know you like "Norm". Exactly!

If you have ASMs, a little bit of planning and you can have it covered. Our SM has ASMs commit weeks in advance as to who can cover what. The PLC does their end, we just shepherd.

Don't be intimidated. You likely know more than most. Pass that on through the patrol method and boy-led process.

@@Ahoydave, sorry you went through that...and more sorry for your son. I wish you lived near my unit...your son likely would have Eagled faster than some of the other kids we have. I've found that being an Eagle at heart is by far MORE important than being an Eagle on paper....or being a "paper Eagle".

We live on the border of Blackfoot and northern Chyenne. We choose Blackfoot. We contacted the nation and had a volunteer help use put together out regalia, showing us ancestral methods for making things. He's now our archery MBC. He was very appreciative that we elected to celebrate his nation by staying authentic. I guess we are lucky to have such a strong tie with our local nation. Well worth the extra work we did to establish the link. Our lodge did NOT go this route. They just created a hodgepodge of regalia.

@@desertrat77 I get your solo knot. We have SMs that wear their eagle and aol and that's it. They could wear seven more but they don't. We also experience, rather often, those "generals" looking down on us for lack thereof. The funniest story was when a group of "generals" we're asking for a volunteer for camporee (many years ago) for someone to head up the wilderness survival. One of our SMs stepped up...one knot (Eagle). Everyone else who volunteered had so many knots and beads they looked like a Hobby Lobby outlet. When that group got together they asked for a lead, our guy stepped up. The head grand pooobaah told,him to sit down. Our guy said, "I've got some experience in this area." When asked what experience he "could" have (in a very condescending manner) out guy replied, "Ten years as a Navy Seal (Team 3), current member of Team 17, 12 years as a sniper, 8 years as SEAL instructor, west coast survival instructor and I have an intense interest to pass these skills to others...except sniping." Amusing response, but he was to,d he wouldn't be needed because "BSA teaches things differently". Needless to say we left and begin our our own unit based program. @@bethkatz17582, I could see a need for women to wear their knots in my district. Since men without knots are not taken seriously, and since I've seen women out rightly dismissed, I can absolutely see a need locally for women to wear knots to break the good old boy network.

Technically you need paperwork. I guess it depends on your scout shop. Big surprise there's no standard process for this, huh?