Gone

No! The change was forced on board by a MINORITY of people, some corporate sponsors and outside organizations. Stop being revisionist and get your facts straight. The survey was sent to members. In fact, the survey results noted "While a majority of adults in the Scouting community support the BSA’s current policy of excluding open and avowed homosexuals, younger parents and teens tend to oppose the policy." The more liberal voting council is the one that went opposite to what the member survey wanted and voted overhwhelmingly (67%) to change the policy. If you're going to spout an opinion at least get the facts straight. There's no hiding behind the fact that BSA acted AGAINST the will of the members they polled. You want to argue that opinion was over/under represented? Fine! But don't go saying that the survey supported changing the policy...that's simply not true.

Oddly enough if you look at the survey sent to members prior to the 2013 vote, @@ghjim will find out how wrong he really is. It's just easier to use revisionist history and unsubstantiated claims to get his point across.

Really? This issue is about CO power to get the leaders they want? I'd be willing to bet you a year's salary that 99% of units out there get nearly all of their adult leader applications confirmed by their CO without so much as a "who is this" from the CO. That is, unless they are subject to background checks by the CO. I'd love to see the stats of the leaders being excluded versus those that will leave. At best it's a wash, but the 2013 and 2014 membership stats don't seem to bear that out do they?

We are. We are seriously going to do water guns at our next meeting. Planning black powder for June. ATVs for July. If councils can ignore policy so can units.

Simple: Members. Our members don't support it (the change). They will leave scouting, just as several units in our district have folded since 2013 for that very reason. Just as BSA saw a steep decline in membership after the last decision. Our members don't want to be part of an organization that allows this change. How is that position ANY DIFFERENT than the people who don't want to join scouting because of the current policy? The ONLY difference I see is that the current members stay in scouting because the believe and abide by the ideals and policies. Those who don't belong want BSA to change, though it is unclear if allowing gay scouters will be enough change for them. Clear enough?

ROFL....JTE. District always asks us for it. We said the UC can come by at any time and pick it up in person. They never come.

We do have multiple rooms. We are lucky in that. The troop tries to meet outside as much as possible though.

As I look back at the OP I see another issue other than schedule: Goal of PLC. We try not to make the meeting too strenuous. We focus on planning the next month's meetings (usually 3 meetings). We make assignments for completing the meeting plans. We ask that the attendees come with ideas so that we avoid brainstorming during the meeting. The PLC knows to use the Troop Program Resources as a template; helps give them structure. The outdoor plan for the monthly camp out is also drawn up and then assigned to a group to plan. In short, the PLC is a place where we the boys accumulate ideas, discuss high-level options, make assignments and then move on. Management of the meeting and outdoor plans falls to the SPL to work with the assigned PLs and ASPLs. The duty roster for meetings is made at the beginning of the year and rotates each month (e.g., honor patrol, service patrol, etc.). The challenges? Making sure the boys come prepared to discuss ideas. Follow-up on meeting and outdoor plans. Helping the leaders plan and execute. Communication in a timely manner. When these things fail the meetings fail. Rather than step in we let the failure happen, then we discuss after the meeting to take our lumps and learn our lesson. Nearly every election cycle we re-learn these things, BUT by the end we end up with guys who know how the system works. It gets better and the boys are learning...that's the key!

What makes him so ignorant to think atheists won't do what the gay lobby is doing? BSA is proving that they can be bullied and forced to change. Once the blood is in the water those wanting change won't stop until the meat is gone.

Last meeting of the month is PLC. SPL, ASPL, Scribe and PLs attend and plan the next month. The troop does scout skills and a game run by the Instructors and JASMs. Used to have a similar format but was the week after a camp out. PLC met, the troop did gear cleaning or "scout room" clean up. For obvious reasons few scouts attended...who wants to clean? Changed five years ago to the above format. Works much better.

The first press picking up the comments here, here and here.

We all have one of those. But the ones we produced AFTER are ones I will stack up against any others.

It's like saying, "Give me a Kleenex!" when you really mean tissue. It is an allowed substitution. Besides, we volunteer for BSA...directionaly correct works.

Agree. However, there comes a time when you have to take a stand for your beliefs. I joined this organization because of its policies, not to join and try to change them. When the organization no longer resembles the one I joined -- or when the organization fundamentally shifts in another direction -- well, then, it's time to move on. Let one of the parents who supports the changes taking place step up and give their time....if you can find these mythical ground-swell of volunteers. Just like those who don't join scouts because of the current policy, they are sticking to their guns and getting applauded for it. Well, I'm sticking to mine. The day the change goes in will be my last with BSA. I am now going to help the PLC plan a water-gun, black powder, ATV hunting event. If councils can ignore one of national's most stringent policies, so can units.

First you need a CEO that recognizes the problem and is willing to take the steps to make the correct changes. However, given the comments made by Gates (see other thread) he clearly had gulped the Kool-aid and is not focusing on what needs to be done.

Visited Dallas last year to see family. He wasn't in there then.

Very true.

Meh....so much for anybody living up to a promise made. I see nothing more than the same old crappola packaged in a different wrapper. The reference to DADT in the military is bull, and he knows it. Private organizations are not held to the same standard as government orgs like the military. That giant sucking sound you hear is that half of scouting who disagrees with Gate getting ready to quit or leave. So glad my scout will be done in 12 months and I can leave this political crap behind. He seems to be reacting to the few councils that have decided to buck national. He has YET to hear from those councils (and units) that will buck national if they *do* change the policy. Fun times. Glad I won't be around to watch the death of scouting.

LOL. Amen! I had the opposite happen. I had the advancement chair come to me and remind me to remind my son he has only a few requirements to complete for Eagle. My reply? "He will either make it or not make it, but whatever he does it will be his decision. I'm not lifting a finger to help unless he asks, and even then I will only do what I am allowed to by policy. I won't remind him of anything. This is his journey." The look on the guys face was priceless, as he had hounded his kid (a classmate of my son) all the time to make sure he completed Eagle by 16....so he could get he license.

After I left the military my first job was working in non-profits; specifically working on the organizations documentation and continuing ed literature to harmonize it...make everything consistent. The organization hired a library sciences person to organize a team of 10 people to pull this off. It took two years of detailed work. We met with volunteers, opened on online forum (back in the days of BBS systems ), accepted emails and even had a few focus groups. Point is, we turned over every stone we could talking to the volunteers in the US to get all the feedback on what was wrong with our documentation and continuing ed materials. After ALL this was done we worked with our continuing ed department to develop a new curriculum and new materials. My point in all of this is my organization had a $3m budget for EVERYTHING, not just this project but for every aspect of our organization. BSA has FAR more than that. Fixing the communication problems BSA has does not take a rocket scientist. I was essentially a 20-something working on a team of 20-somethings lead by a 40-something. BSA could fix this, but they need the right people making the decisions. This goes back to my point in other threads about BSA continuing to hire bean counters and internal types. They don't have the first clue how to run an organization and fix these problems. They know scouting, but scouting is not the problem.

@@DenLeader2, our city was very specific about what they would/would not allow our unit to do for CERT. Mostly support roles for the main CERT team or support for the first responder units (e.g. fire house logistics, police logistic support, runners, etc.). Our unit CERT training must comply with the minimum required by the city...which is essentially their CERT course used as a baseline. SAR is much different as you point out. Support is limited to base camp or remote camp logistics. We must have at minimum of 3 trained adults and the boys are under our supervision. So if we were to support a remote camp the boys would be under our supervision. As you point out only older Scouts over 18 would be allowed to help BUT they must have certifications (i.e., climbing, aviation, etc.) for any role they would assist with. CERT seems a more likely role for us. SAR, as much as we may want to help, will not be the in-the-thick-of-it type searches. Lost hiker? Sure! Avalanche rescue? Nope.

I agree with the folks saying the scout should identify animals such as honey bee versus bumble bee versus yellow jacket. Obviously difficult differentiation such as killer bee versus honey bee I will ignore. @@Stosh, agree on relaxed standards for challenged kids, BSA rules allow for that. I will say that the two kids we have in that category can like tell a Lepidoptera Aglosstata from a Lepidoptera Glosstata.

Spoke with my city manager tonight. He confirmed scout units CAN be mobilized for CERT activities in the event of a disaster. SAR is another issue. They will use unit-based crews for SAR as a back up set of resources, mostly likely as supply or restocking missions. He said anyone interested in forming such crews should contact your local authorities and see what basic training they require and any restrictions they may have. My guys aare going to be excited!

Lol. My answer: His best! There is no minimum.

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