Gone

@@NJCubScouter, you recall correctly...at least from what I also read. I'd like to think this is BSA's way of obfuscating the minor changes with a major one, but that would assume a high degree of planning and coordination with intent; qualities BSA rarely possesses. My understanding from someone on the task force is that most of these changes you note in the link will happen between now and Nov. The duty to God issue is being put on the back burner according to my friend.

@@qwazse, I wonder what a valuation of the district's products and services would look like if we tracked the item, it's costs versus it's value. someplace once a month for scouters of all sorts to get together [To what value and at what cost?] a list of counselors for every MB (not just the ones my troop has experts in), [Get that from council.] someplace to send each pack's best PWD car [Not a BS issue so of no value] day camp [see previous] an advancement chair for every Eagle BoR [Yes, this is helpful] a means for my crew to invite every scout in our community to help them place flags on veterans' graves in the city's not-for-profit cemetary camporees [Yes, this can be helpful but in our experience it has been a waste of time] fliers printed on council's ink [We don't have this, but isn't this a council service? Does the district really handle the whole thing (design, print, deliver) or are they just the middle man?] council calendars [These are online.] a place for good men to serve when their time in a unit has run its cours [Just men? ]

Yup singing, loud talking and my favorite "Hey Bear!" are all good. A 9mm is good. Second clip is legal in my neck of the woods. Come to MT...open carry, no magazine restriction, etc. Super Soakers allowed too but require a seven day waiting period.

Yes, let's be real, it is not about an issue, it is about how an organization is. We can disagree on issues, but that's not the point. What is being done is forcing your beliefs on someone else. For those who joined knowing that BSA had this policy but don't support it -- and I suspect that's many people here -- making the change to fit your ideology is insurgent behavior. It is not honest. It is hypocritical. Put the shoe on the other foot and see how much you scream. I'm done.

Very true. Though I will say bells and spray work...as does a good 12 gauge.

No, local option changes BSA policy. You leaving and joining an organization you can fully support solves the problem. I'm glad you are so chipper about how life works. Hope you feel the same when what goes around comes around. I will feel pity for you then because one really should practice what the preach.

Appreciate the response. I don't want to repeat the War and Peace response above (apologies) so I will simply say this: If the district was a business, what products and services would they provide? Maybe that will get us further down the road as to what a good district does.

Thanks for the reply. My comments below. I am not trying to be incendiary, but rather to truly ascertain why districts exist. Never seen one...ever. We have them. They are the the website. I only get requests for FOS presentations but I have never seen anyone at ANY of our meetings. With apologies to Jeremy Clarkson, "Some say they visit other units, but I don't know of any units they've visited". The only thing I have seen is leader-specific (worthless) and IOLS, but that is usually done by council. They have a feeble youth leader training conducted by the same person for the last 10 years. He puts off more scouts that the word has spread across the boys that the training is worthless. They opt rather for NYLT done by council. Like what? In our district it is camporee. I've already bored you with how that works. There are no other BS level events. So the mantra from the pro-district crowd is, "So volunteer and make it happen". My retort is, "My role is to support my unit, not other units". So still struggling to see the role of district here. If they were providing support to units, those units would be more successful and eliminate the need and expense for a district-wide "fun" event, ne pas? While I don't get enough sleep, two hours sitting in a chair having someone read me stuff on a print out they could have sent me electronically is hardly cause for celebration. I think RT is an old concept that needs revision. Scouts are supposed to be thrifty but that's not demonstrated by the severe waste of resources and time we experience at RT. This might work in your district but in mine they do nothing....well, nothing that's effective. Case in point: recruiting minorities. RT published this big deal about the next meeting will give us "viable strategies for recruiting in the minority community". Great! I went with high hopes and low expectations. After two long hours the general take-away was "Get a few minorities to join your group and you will get more minorities". Really? I would have never thought of that! But how do you get THOSE minorities to join you. There's that chicken and the egg thing again BSA does so well; their way of helping is say "bake a cake" but they don't tell you the ingredients you need or how it's done. Waste of time and typically of district recruiting. Meanwhile, my unit focuses on providing services to packs around us (meeting planning, execution, support, den chiefs, fun events, etc.) so that those packs remember us at crossover. We've grown year on year and nearly eliminated drop outs. But what do the DO????? How does the existence of a DE make my unit better? You cannot argue for the existence of districts by citing they have DEs. What does a good DE do to help my unit? Anything different from what you've stated above? Sorry, I appreciate the time you took to respond but I just don't see anything here that justifies the existence (or need for my unit to support) the concept of districts. Now, if you are arguing that districts are the welfare agency for units that need help, then I can get behind that. But for healthy, wealthy units I see no need for, nor any benefit to, the existence of districts. If you have other ideas what a perfect world district would do I'd be more than happy to listen. Thanks for the reply. I do appreciate the effort.

Be the smart a** I am I likely would have said, "did you see those black bears coming down off the 'Tooth' last night? Ate everything the campers had including their headlamps. You could see the head lamps in their teeth as the came back down the mountain." Black bears in some parts can be more aggressive than browns.

@@pargolf44067 sounds like we are similar in planning. We also did things like "engineering" as a theme where we built rockets or rat trap racers or such. The last mtg of the month was the launch or race. Fun!

Re/ older boy patrols (13 and younger, 14 and older patrols) we've tried these and they didn't work for us. Re/ new boy patrols, these did not work either. The mixed patrols worked best. Older shouts who have earned the right go in to Leadership Corps. That seems to have worked for us.

@@moosetracker, again you miss the point. If I don't like something, I don't go there. Don't like a restaurant, I leave. Don't like a party, I leave. Don't like a company, I don't buy their product. Don't like the policies of a club or group, I don't associate with them. What you advocate is joining a group you don't agree with and changing them. That's subversive and wrong. Why not just live and let live? You want others to respect YOUR opinions but you don't accept OTHER'S right to have theirs. You see something YOU consider wrong and work from inside to change it, rather than to support their right to have their opinion and associate in a group of people that share that opinion. Leave. Practice what you preach and start your own organization with the polices you want. Why destroy what others have built? Like I said, wait for that pendulum to swing and see how you feel. My bet is you will cry foul and expect the other side to be lenient to you. I would not wish that on anyone. Why? Because I practice what I preach. Wish you did.

Looking at the 2013, 2014 and projected 2015 loss in membership, BSA is looking at an average 7% year-on-year loss since 2013. That's significant.

@@Stosh, our unit does this... - Themes are selected by the PLC during annual planning. - Generally, the monthly themes map to the monthly outing. - Games and skills are tied to the theme if possible. - The PLC tries to have the meetings build in skill difficulty as the month progresses. - The games/skills are "weighted" so as to challenged all skill levels. One skill, many difficulty levels. This is where scouts planners need the most guidance. That's pretty much what we do. Does it always work? Nope, but they always learn something.

Again, I ask, why join a group which has a policy you don't agree with? Can't you just make your own group? It's this mentality of confrontation and tearing down others which I think some people enjoy. Can't get in to the club, tear it down. Be careful, when the pendulum Swings back you may not like it!

Now, now...the posting about the membership drop was tied to the Gates comments about the OTHER points. By point ting out those other points it's clear RETENTION is not working and these other "accomplishments" are out of touch with the primary problem: we are bleeding members, and have been for a while. That outflow just seems to be even worse the last two years and that has to do with failed policies and objectives all the way around. On a side note, a friend working at national in membership says the current recharter numbers are down 5% again...and that's before the mid-year reconciliation (some call it ring out) which usually further down grades that number. The current projection is possibly 8%...that was before yesterday. Stay tuned.

As a very vocal opponent of the districts I'll put this out there in good faith: Assuming a district is doing its job, in a perfect world, what does a district do for my unit? Why should I get involved in my district? What benefits does my unit and/or CO, and/or Scouts, and/or unit adults? I'm seriously interested in what benefit the district should be providing that justifies all this hype around why they exist and why my parents or I should get involved.

7.4% drop in 2014. 6.2% drop in 2013. Years previous the drops were half that. 'nuff said.

The whole hiring practices issue is bull. Councils have been hiring employees for YEARS without legal contest on this issue. The ONLY reason it's being made an issue now is to test BSA. I say again, if you don't like the policy then LEAVE and start your own group. Imagine how you'd fee if the tables were turned.

@@Stosh, I'm going with the common Venisonus Deerlicius or wild deer.

The exec pay thing was nice to see but that should be across the bord with all paid senior execs. The focus on retention was campaign talk but nothing's substantive. Recruiting seems to be focused again on underserved areas and groups. Again no solid tools or tips on how to do it. Councils can be stabilized by hiring people who know how to run a business. Again they don't do that so councils go red financially.

I could care less what other units do. They usually do it wrong anyway. Went to an event last night where I saw a few dozen violations of scout policy, oath, law, you name it. I don't care about what other units or scouters do. I *do* care about why people, who joined an organization KNOWING their policy, are on a warpath to change it...against the beliefs of those whom they claim to serve? You don't poll the COs. The vast majority of COs don't get involved in unit mgmt...ever! Poll the people who are members. They pay the dues. They do the work. Without the members the entire organization is worthless. Ask yourself this, how would you feel if you joined something and invested years in its growth and prosperity only to see a minority of people within a voting block of your organization totally change its very basis? I hope you never have to experience a feeling like this.

We posted the PDFs to the troop website. The boys all have smart phones so they like that. Converted the meeting plan to an editable pdf file (a Scout's project) so the guys can make the plans easier. Good luck, sounds like you are on the right track.

@@JoeBob, I just call them venison. Marinate them in red wine, lingon berries and olive oil, then smoke them over apple wood for about 2 hours, then serve with a side of lingon berry-brandy sauce with a side of bread dumplings and red cabbage. That's my favorite part of animal identification. Try doing that with veggies!

Here's a novel idea for BSA, ask ALL their members what they want right now. One person, one vote. Winner gets the policy. Loser is free to exercise their conscious and go start their own organization the way they want. That's fair, huh?