Gone

Sexual advances and touching between two people of the same sex has nothing to do with being gay? I thought that was the (current) definition of being gay. Who knew?

@@MattR it s everything: band, orchestra, choir, sports....heck even debate and science clubs. Kids these days don't have time to breath. Scouts has become a place to chill and get away from over eager parents.

Note to all DIY guys: Always turn off the current to ANY device.

@desertrat77@eagle77 this was in VA Beach. Doing basic 10 years later in the same waters had me thinking twice at night, in the water and trying to get to shore in one piece.

@@resqman surely they are Tweeting it.

ROFL. Mine was 1975 too. On the way to camp the troop stopped and camped on the beach which butted up against this fence line. On the other side of the fence was a drive in movie theater. We snuck out after lights out and worked our way to the fence line. We could see the screen just fine and the ambient sound from the speakers was just enough to hear the dialog. Waves were crashing in the background. The movie? Jaws! June 7, 1975. No one in my patrol went in to the water the entire week. We just punted the swim test and hung out at the trading post.

Thanks. If so, that will be a fun little administrative thing for PA summer camps to manage. My cousin in Texas notes that his council requires scouters to have face-to-face YPT to do in council camps. Not sure if that applies to out of council or out of state scouters.

@@RememberSchiff so Scouters from out of state doing camp in PA have to go through all of this?

Sadly, I *do* know the answer to that. We had a scout (my son) make a recruitment video based on Minecraft for Cub Scouts. It took place in Mincraft in a virtual summer camp complete with archery range, dinning hall, water front, trading post, etc. Blew their little minds. That video is good for 5-7 scouts a year without even trying to recruit.

...and FAR more adult-driven than it is already; more like a soccer team than a boy-led organization.

Ok, for me this is a WAY different story then. I would sit down and help him refocus then. Help him develop a plan -- much like his IEP at school, but for Scouts and making Eagle -- and then help him execute that plan. He obviously have WAY too much going on to focus on Eagle. I would step in then and help any way I could. If it were just another "lazy teenager" that's one thing. This kids sounds like he needs help and does not know how to ask for it or where to begin. You sound like you know how to help. I would personally step in.

We all have jobs and families we have to juggle. It is a matter of priorities. Some put the job first. Some have to put the job first. Some put one kid ahead of the rest. Some have too many kids to manage any of it well. We all struggle with health, family, job, etc. Point is, we all have these personal battles that take our time. I can only answer as to why I put in the insane amount of hours in to the program. I'm selfish. I want to spend time with my son. I want to spend as mush time with him as I can. I gave up a very high paying job (with tons of travel and perks) to take a lower role that allowed me to stay home and spend tons of time with all my kids, so my reasons are purely selfish. I want my kids to have fun and learn, so I put in many, many hours a week so that their various activities are well-run, well-funded places where they can learn and grow. Am I tired? Oh yeah! Been doing this now for 15 years and there are times I have to pull myself along. Most of my exhaustion and frustration is NOT from the kids, but from pulling the weight that those other parents refuse to pull. And just when I am about to get bitter, a kid comes along and asks me a question that reinvigorates me to continue doing my "job". Then I get outdoors either in the mountains or somewhere else, and I remember why I continue to do what I do. In one regard scouting is a bit like golf. Anyone who has ever played golf knows this axiom. You can play 18 holes, duff your way around the course and get totally frustrated. You SWEAR as soon as you get to the parking lot you're DONE with this sport!! Yet, on the last few holes you either par or birdie and string together several amazing shots, leaving you elated and dying to come back next week and "improve". That's scouting in a nutshell for me.

Oh yeah, they all exist in various permutations. My personal experience with Eagle scouters is that they "walk the walk" in their professional life, but do not dive in with the gusto that our non-Eagle scouters do. Heck, out best scouters were never in scouts! I think most folks that step up and take the SM role are part nuts, mostly energetic and willing to put in the intense amount of time it takes to deliver a quality program. They stay that way only if their support structure among the parents is good. If they become more a one-man show or the parents are less helpful, these SMs burn out (Eagle or not) REAL fast. I am sure we've all seen that.

I agree the actual requirements do little to develop character. However, I think the MBs that are required -- *IF* they are done in earnest -- will do a great deal to forge a well-rounded, high-character person. All the Citizenships, First Aid, E-Prep, Family Life, etc., are all badges that have giving of one's self at the forefront. If the MBC truly has the scout dig deep and earn those requirements for each badge you CAN end up with a scout that is of strong character. However, most of those badges are earned at summer camps or MB colleges where "depth of learning" is nothing more than paying lip service to the requirements.

Let's face it @@Stosh, you're right. BSA 2015 would take place in Minecraft and everyone would be camping virtually, running from Creepers and blowing up stuff.

[Picking my jaw up off of the floor] So my *stalled* scout just sent me an email (yeah, sitting in his room, too lazy to come down and get breakfast), actually he copied me on it, which was sent to his eagle advisor. The attachment contained a completed Eagle proposal and draft plan, inclusive of a work plan that would make a PMP-certified adult blush with envy. Work starts next month. Go figure. No prodding. No extortion. No nagging. EDIT: Ok, who took my son? The kid who just entered the kitchen says he leaving to talk to Home Depot and Lowes about in-kind contribution of materials for his Eagle project. If anyone finds my actual son please let me know. He was last seen going to bed, indifferent to everything in the world, last night around 10:30pm. A reward is being offered.

@@SlowDerbyRacer I think the gay issue would still be there, as would many other issues (i.e., religion). It is too hard to separate out the hot social issues. I do think that were it started today the membership would be much lower than it is now. Assuming the focus of BSA 2015 is still an outdoor program, I don't think you'd get the draw that it does today, mostly because of the lack of history and all the other things out there to compete for a boy's time. I suspect STEM would be a major focus.

Exactly my point @@Stosh. But it's far easier for folks to pick on the single issue of slavery and tie it to racism and the battle flag/navy jack. It's what the media tells them to say and what the talking head mouth pieces advocate. An academic review of the history shows there was far more to the war than just slavery.

ROFL...so that's exactly why our first meeting of the year is a parent meeting where we enlighten them on how scouting works. We remind them we are not day care, we exist through everyone participating. We'd have a sign up sheet for various activities, told them we'd train them and said no one leaves until they signed up for at least one activity. Most know this coming in. At the cub level we would have 1-2 folks leave at the end of the meeting and never come back. Those who stayed got the message. Those who left were not missed as they were likely the drop-and-leave types....and who need those people?

The best scouters I know are consistently those who did NOT make Eagle. Their passion for scouting is almost as if they're trying to make up for not getting Eagle. Most scouters I have met who made Eagle I have been underwhelmed by. One or two stick out, but most don't have anywhere near the drive or passion that the "failed" scouters have. I'll take one of those guys over 20 Eagle scouters any day.

@@packsaddle, these sources are only the ones that address slavery. There are just as many sources addressing the states' rights issue. No one is saying slavery wasn't an issue, but it wasn't the only issue.

Stunned at the mental gymnastics people will go through to justify their positions. @@packsaddle, you need to read a bit more history...and not just from the sources that you agree with.

I have one of those, my kid. It's his journey. I say nothing. He will either do it or he won't. He's active....very active. He's just a procrastinator. If he makes it before he turns 18, great! If not, he will learn the lesson of procrastination. I reference Mike Rowe's letter a few years back in response to a dad who wanted Mike to help encourage his son to complete Eagle. Mike's response is classic. I have to admit that after reading that I changed my entire approach to my kid and scouting. He was still a cub back then but now that he's nearly Eagle this has really hit home. He will either do it or he won't. You can drag him or manage him, but the accomplishment won't be his if you do. I have friends who withhold driving or vacation or other things from their kids. Let him make -- and live -- with his own choice....then relax.

Key 3 folks with access to my.scouting.org will be able to see that in the training manager dashboard.

There's always an ROI on a technical investment. It is either positive or negative. Sounds like they didn't want to put it in writing because the result was not good.