Gone

I&P?? We were actually getting to a discussion about how to re-model districts if they don't seem to work. That's a real discussion. C'mon, let's not silence debate on a topic just because there's disagreement.

All this talk about science and God reminds me of that South Park episode.

11-13 year olds can't use a post hole digger but they can use caustic chemicals in STEM?

If council gives us the thumb's up we are good to go with their blessing....which we have. I consider it blessed and done. No BOR for Scout, just a quick review of requirements, an SMC and award. The new requirements are a bit more involved and require a BOR. As our council put it, they don't consider Scout "on the road to FC" under the 2015 requirements. Once 2016 comes, Scout is the first step on that path.

You need to go to a middle school again. I was in one recently during morning announcements. Football? Small claps. Basketball? Nada. Math team wins a tournament? Loud cheers and clapping.

@@Hedgehog sounds like your unit does not recover gas and other expenses as part of your camp costs. $25 for food and campsite? Where is gas, propane, and other incidentals recovered.

District events in my area remind me of a scene out of Atlas Shrugged.

Council advancement chair has recommended this approach. Under the current rules, if we award Scout in late December the boys would use the 2016 requirements. Most units are going to use this approach to help with advancement admin.

Which is exactly what we do. All of this. Don't get me wrong, our unit used to RUN our district.....for years. We staffed the heck out of it, made sure no one unit controlled the district, offered great events and training and unit assistance. Even had a unit assistance fund. About 15 years ago we got a DE that killed all that and ticked off nearly every unit that we all stayed away. District got all staffed up with a good ole boy network and they're still there....hence my position.

Let's face it, STEM Scouting is BSA's attempt to get the Asian market. They're not as focused on outdoor as other kids, but rather math and science.

Start feeling sorry then. We've had many folks moving to our area find us on FB as well as our website. We pick up about 5 scouts a year that way. With local Cubs, their parents check in on our FB page to see what we are doing. We tag various locations they also go to and they see us in action. We get about 300 local people viewing our posts every week. They repost to their groups which give us more exposure. We had offers of scout exchange from three countries come through which we would have never gotten through a simple website. I hated FB for year!!! I still don't have a personal account, but there's no doubt that it is an effective channel for recruiting and getting the word out. I believe @@KenD500 lives in the Big D, FB is HUGE down there according to my cousin who's a unit lead there. They have a page that gets tons of traffic and even more scouts than we get through that channel. They've even taken the time to do flashy graphics and such.

I would start by asking units what they need. We need: Less paperwork Faster paperwork processing with fewer errors That's all we need from district. Others may need more.

So districts and councils ONLY get better if the volunteers step in and do the work the paid staff should be doing? Please! Districts and councils are here to help US, not the other way around. If their programs are not viable, if their events are boring, if their politics keeps people from helping where their strengths lie, then WHY should we help keep alive something that is essentially parasitic? You have yet to explain why councils and districts are necessary. What they offer far out paces what they demand. They are a money-losing product line. A drain. If districts require units to work then the model is broken. It is very simple: Most of us spend oodles of hours making our units work and don't have time (literally) to offer to district. So if district require us to run, then they need to find a new model. That's how the business world works, BSA should too. In my area they have $5m for camps but don't spend it. I can get my BSA materials online. Most of the templates I need about Scouting I get from other Scouters, not council/district. I will continue to complain about the district model -- just as others here complain about other stuff going on (or not going on) in scouting -- because it creates dialog. It allows people like you and I who have differing opinions to vet about how to fix problems. So I offer this: If districts rely on volunteers -- and volunteer numbers are dwindling rapidly AND the amount of time they can spend helping themselves and other is finite -- how should the district model change. I mean, were'nt you the person who wrote, "There is also somewhat of an unwillingness on the part of the people in Scouting to embrace change and adaptation." I mean, if you are calling others out on not embracing change regarding scouting overall (STEM, gay leaders, gay scouts, etc.), why are you so unwilling to embrace change -- radical change even -- with regard to districts?

We thought about that approach but the PLC voted against it. They *did* want to get Scout out of the way under the 2015 requirements. We will get a clean start on 2016 after the book is released....assuming it is released on time.

Well, in short, because the main program is hemorrhaging and in desperate need of attention. BSA has proven they can't effectively juggle more than one ball at a time. Introducing STEM at this point is a severe risk to the health of BSA.

As I have said in the other "district" thread, I focus on my unit. That's my job. When that job ends maybe I will help my district, but the role I have says I need to take care of my boys and my unit, so that's what I do.

Don't worry, if their STEM courses are as well thought out as the animation or game design or robotics or other technology MBs, these kids will have the technical skills of your average 7th grader.

We've offered to run their archery, shooting sports and other range activities. We have several NRA instructors and RSOs, two former SEALS, one sharpshooter, and a competitive marksman. We have all of our own gear including targets and throwers. Because the district pooh-baahs see running range sports as the biggest feather you can have, they keep that for themselves and tell us "thanks, but no thanks". They'd have John Elway play water boy or tackle rather than put a ball in his hand if it means taking kudos away from themselves. Barked up that tree for too long. More power to those who don't mind continuing to bark....I'm all out of bark.

I get that. What I don't get is the attitude that comes with it. I accepted a role which comes with a responsibility to my kids and my unit. With as many kids as we have and as robust as a program as we have developed, there is little time for anything else. The success of our unit did not happen overnight, was the work of many involved parents who support what our kids wanted to do, and was not subsidized (despite years of asking for help) by council or district; so we focus on our jobs...making the unit work. I'd love to help other units. We do that whenever we are asked OR when we see a problem that requires urgent response. We've trained their leaders, we've lent out our gear, we've had joint events/outings, etc. But just as you can't give every beggar a $5 as you walk down the street, so too can you not continue to fix the problems district/council has. There are far too many to fix. BSA has money, let them fix it. That *is* their job. We have a DE, let him come ask. Haven't seen him or a UC in years...going on 5 now. Time is finite. I spend so much time on my unit there is literally nothing left after family, friends, work, religion and scouts. Someone has to lose out, guess that's my district/council.

No. The new scouts (Class of 2016) will do Scout only during December using the old requirements. They will do TF-FC with the new requirements once the book is out in January. We will tell them not to get a book until January after the new books are out. For Scout we will just give them a duplicated page 17 which has the Scout requirements on it. Since they are Webelos and mostly AOL awardees, this information will be the same as in their CS Handbook. Or better yet, maybe BSA should only make changes to substantial things like requirements when they can delivery the updated book PRIOR to the implementation of the new requirements. It is like Microsoft announcing Windows 10 and selling it, but it not being activated until a month or so after you buy it. Poor timing on BSA's part. That is what our BORs are doing too. As soon as you finish FC you move to the new requirements. Our PLC even built in a few "workshops" for the boys to understand the new requirements changes. I smiled when that was proposed by one of our first year scouts. He got the idea and now it is part of the plan. All I had to do was sit there (a la @@Stosh ).

I am training my unit and my kids. I am fulfilling my role to keep the unit strong and deliver on the BSA promise to the boys and adults of my unit...which is what the program is about. We teach WRFA, first aid. CRP/AED, shooting sports, CERT/S&R, JLT (TLT) and leader-specific training. Our unit does all this because we don't trust district/council anymore to develop training that is not a total waste of time. The council and the district's job is to find out what units need and spend the money they have on those needs, rather than 6 figure salaries for over-paid executives. I think you have the role of district/council backwards. I am not there to serve them, they are there to serve my unit. They have money, we don't. My job says I am supposed to run a quality program and fulfill the ideals and mission of scouting for my kids. That's what I do. My job is NOT to do council and district's job for them. If their model doesn't work then it is time for a new model that does.

Our school systems expect a whole lot more independence of our children now then they did when we were kids. I didn't need to have a binder for each subject, take copious notes and practice every night for band or choir or sports. Soccer and baseball were in the spring, football in the fall. Band, choir and orchestra were electives with a modest amount of time required. Now everyone works year around, makes things mandatory and some even tie grades to attendance. Society has amped up what is expected of these kids. One could argue that Boy Scouts -- and it's pressure to be boy-led -- is EXACTLY the type of program that would help these kids gain independence and think as a group. Here, here. If we stay the course (thanks G. Bush) who is to say we slip into oblivion? Maybe we find our equilibrium at a much lower number, BUT those who stay scribe to the ideal on which Scouting was founded. We get those truly interested in an independent, boy-led outdoor program like B-P wanted.

Don't know. From the podcast the person speaking for BSA seemed to toss the two dates out not realizing this would be an issue (or not caring it was an issue). Kind of hard to miss. We are encouraging Webelos to cross over in December this year so we can get them in under the wire BUT we will not advise them to get handbooks until the new ones are printed. It will eliminate any problems due to the BSA's lack of timing. Agreed. My concern is the lack of uniform understanding around the timeline. Many units I speak to erroneously think they have a year to work in the new requirements. Despite the FAQ and podcast being out there, many still have the wrong idea.

By "this" I assume you mean the lack of boy led, boy focused, boy centric activities with as few adults as possible involved? Out west we do that. We require adults to register if they want to tag along. We require adults to volunteer a minimum of time if they want to be around. We require adults to get trained and take a position if they want to go anywhere. We have STRICT rules about what adults do during events. We literally sit around and cook, camp, etc. Our boys have learned to treat us as a patrol. When it's time to hike or canoe, they tell us. I lament the same things you do. I think many of the younger parents really are more self absorbed than we were at that age. I think they've become more narcissistic because of how they were raised. They'd rather play golf or have girls night out then put in 5 hours on a service project. I don't think WE let that happen. I think parents let that happen by being bad role models. My parents were always volunteering. I do that now. I hope my kids will follow my example. The parents and kids who don't seem to care were taught that. We can try to fix a lot of things but we can't parent everyone.

Yes, they're making it up. But they seem to be following the policy and initial process. Where they're making things up is where there is no process, but they seem to be following policy. I suppose their rationale was to get the work done. Why they may have selected the process they did only they can answer.