Mountaineer

My son is a sailing mate and he uses a boat cushion. He bought a $9 pool float from Academy and took it with him. Guess it's too much hassle to blow up daily. Highly recommend some type of light cover.

This whole thing is really pretty simple. It starts at the top and filters down to all leaders and parents. "Never do for a scout what they can do for themselves". If the scout cannot handle a task then the PL or SPL needs to address it. Perhaps the scout or a group of scouts need training or need to be paired up with a patrol member that can help.

You're a winner! The BSA is already co-ed at the leader and youth levels.

Agree, your backpack should be bags within a bag. To drive that point home the troop roped off the end of a lake cove and set-up a tote line. The scout had to get himself and his backpack (with everything he brought for the trip) from one side to the other.

In 2014 at Philmont we saw a bear but he wasn't interested in us. He went his way and we went ours. At Philmont, you bear bag all food and anything with a scent. All food waste is strained and the wash\rinse water goes into a sump (plastic piping that goes into the ground). Because of the amount of waste Philmont no longer permits you to use turkey bags (over your bowls). The only time I felt unsafe was when we were heading up to the top of the Tooth and we had to use lightning protocol.

You will not go wrong with an Osprey; you'll thank me later. The Aether 70 will serve you well on a day hike or multi-day backcountry hike.Go to REI and have them weight it down and adjust it for you.

I agree. The BSA could tweak the Eagle requirements by simply doubling the number of nights required to earn the Camping MB. 20 nights (that can include a week at camp) is simply a low bar to achieve. I can live with the other requirements but the outdoor program is where you build and practice skills. That includes leadership; you cannot lead if you're never there.

While I agree with a lot of the points made in this thread there are some that are getting to be just way off base. The Eagle rank was never meant to be "the best of the best" or represent expert level outdoor and leadership skills. T21 are basic outdoor skills. So a scout doesnt have these basic skills then deal with it before awarding FC, dont wait until he is applying for Eagle rank. The leadership requirements are meant to give boys the opportunity to practice, develop, and demonstrate their leadership skills. The BSA is not awarding PM certifications as part of the Eagle rank (get over it). Personally Im grateful there are guidelines and an appeals process so that a boy doesnt have to measure up to some imagined threshold of ability. The BSA already has a stringent National Outdoor Award. To earn this award scouts have to be extremely active in the outdoors (125 BSA nights camping). Additionally, they have to lead a crew on an outing, earn Wilderness Survival MB, Wilderness FA, and LNT Trainer. Im only scratching the surface of all the requirements; the point is they are significant. While I do not hold Eagles in a lesser light for not earning this award, I do believe most are comfortable in the outdoors and recognize the limitations of their skills. Whats more important? An Eagle that knows how to navigate using a compass and can lead a crew on a hike OR an Eagle over his head in a class 4 rapid putting his life in danger and those that are there to try to bail him out. My point is that if the Eagle rank is the best of the best and expert level outdoor skills, where does it stop? How many of you Eagles measure up?

I really wouldnt mind convenience stores and dealerships flying these huge American Flags if they would take them down at sunset and in bad weather. And they should replace them when they become ripped or worn. Passing a convenience store today that was flying one, the lower red stripe had been ripped and it made feel as though theyre being disrespectful. It also makes me wonder if they are really only flying it as an advertising symbol.

There's just too many variables to say let it die or fight to keep a unit going. In the 70's when I was a scout in a rural area there were around 15 regulars that had been with the troop since it's inception. Most of us were also active in sports and around the time we all starting turning 16, fewer and fewer people came to our weekly meeting and eventually we died. So at the rank of Life, my troop quit on me. In a rural area where there's not another troop within a 30 to 50 mile radius as a kid you don't have any options. In my case I wish someone would have stepped up, tried to recruit, and keep the troop going. In my son's case, I won't go into specifics but I have never seen such drama in a troop as the first one he joined because that's where all his cub scout friends went. The first bad sign was on the first campout when he and about 5 other scouts were cussed out for about 10 minutes for changing up who they tented with. We tried to let that one slide but it turned out to be one thing afer another but that's old history now. That was almost the end of scouting for my son. After about 6 months of inactivity we visited his current troop and made the move. Best decision we ever made. A lot of my son's friends made the move to our current troop and they love it. They regret taking years to make the move. Dysfunctional troops should be allowed to die or the entire leadership should be replaced. They really do more harm to scouting than they do for it.

Now for a lighter topic ... I've discovered flashlights are great for storing dead batteries.

Well I would not ignore this, I would also caution against having a knee jerk reaction. It sounds to me like more of an over the line prank than willfully trying to hurt someone. Too often we adults make the punishment worse than the crime itself. Rather than trying to single out individuals, I would take the approach that everyone present outside the patrol should fix it. That will likely remedy the problem and with the grumbling of the not guilty; the offenders will learn its not cool to cross the line with pranks.

I see no problem with counting it; doesnt matter its done on the CO property. Just guessing but the issue may be because its a local trip. On occasion, I have seen issues were guys would leave, go to a soccer\baseball game and come back. Sometimes bringing their fast food bag with them on their return. Others would come for the day but not spend the night, etc. While you want to be accommodating and understanding it can be a distraction for the guys that are there for the long haul. In the scenario I just described, who gets credit? If you did not spend the night you certainly dont get credit. What if you were gone 3-4 hours during the afternoon and missed most if not all of a major planned activity? See where the problems start creeping in. When you are at least an hour away and you travel to and from as a group, this rarely is a problem.

Re: Ultimate Trop Trailer Why not just by a Coleman pop-up. Most have a refrigerator, stove, heat\air, seating, table that converts to a bed, sleeps 6-8 then you can really ruff it. One for each patrol. Highest rank and seniority get priority on using. Three or four of these would outfit most troops. Gets the boys outdoors, promotes excitement and retention. At parks just hook into to their electrical system. Nice way to unwind and relax after a hard day of hiking. All worthy BSA goals and you would be the envy of every troop at Camporee. Guys Im joking. Dont need any hate mail.

Outing participation really varies for us. Seems to me the season and the type of activity plays the major factor. This past Jan or Feb we only had around 40% on a Mtn Biking trip. Maybe it was the season or maybe its because Mtn Biking is very strenuous, Im not sure. Maybe both played a factor. It seems as some of the older guys have aged out, climbing is not as popular as it once was and there has been a minor drop off. Although recently weve had an option for a group to go to a different site during the day and do bouldering instead of climbing. We typically invite another troop when we have a climbing trip since the equipment is expensive and they likely have infrequent opportunities to do this. All in all we always have a large group. The water and backpacking trips are always very well attended.

This is not a BSA problem; it's an American problem and it's getting worse. For all those that have taken steps to improve your life, I congratulate you. For those that need to improve their lifestyle; if being a leader motivates you to take steps then that's great. Find something, improving your health, doing it for your family, preparing for Philmont to get you started. Often the hardest part is getting started.

We've clearly went off topic. I think the results are in and for many troops they are a necessity. I can understand the practical reasons why many troops use trailers. Do I think troops that use them have bad programs clearly no. The only thing Ive observed from troops that do use them is the tendency to bring more than they really need or use and the time it takes them to set-up and tear down. I know first hand about this; I have a truck with a cover. Whenever we go on a family vacation you can count on it being completely loaded down. My wife makes sure of this. Do we use or need all we take; heck no. We take it simply because we may need it and we have room for it. I refer to this as the over prepared mentality. As I stated in an earlier post, the only time we use a (boat) trailer is when we are doing a water activity. I feel like we have a well rounded program; at least 3 water trips, 2 climbing trips, 1 mountain bike trip and the remainder hiking related. We never deviate, we always travel light. We are a relatively large troop with typically 30+ scouts and adults on winter trips and 80-100 scouts and adults on our most popular trip in the fall. It could be argued that if we used a trailer we could limit the amount of vehicles we take on trips. Weve never had a problem with having enough adults to transport scouts though so if we had one we might still end up taking the same amount of cars. Our troop owns no lanterns, large grills, canopies, patrol boxes, or tents larger than 2 man. If a patrol wants to use a dutch oven then its their responsibility to acquire one and bring it on the trip. Do I think troops that own this equipment have a bad program - no. For our troop, it simply helps reinforce the travel light mentality and forces scouts to be responsible for their own gear.

$400 lighter (smile). It looks like the course is a 4 day 3 night high adventure trip so I can understand the cost. My personal feeling about this though, is dont invest the money unless youre honest with yourself and you are willing to change and adapt. Having the knowledge will not help if you have the "over prepared" mentality. If youre serious about this I would suggest start weighing your pack before every trip and keep an inventory of what was taken. Make it a goal to incrementally get lighter. If you didn't catch this thread this is an interesting read: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=337103

Except summer camp, patrol vs individual cooking is a patrol decision. Unless the patrol has members working on TTF then in most cases they always opt to individual cook. On trips we really have more backpacking stoves then we need but the tradeoff is worth it. Individual cooking requires you to plan how you will actually cook your food and then obviously if you dont cook you dont eat (sarcasm theres always enough food to go around and scouts frequently sample what others have made). In an effort to encourage more than just heating water and pouring it in a freeze dried bag occasionally we have cooking contests for best backpacking recipe.

Unless it's a water activity, we never haul a trailer. Even for a car camping trip we travel light; no lanterns (even minimize flashlights), patrol boxes, large grills, canopies, or Mansion tents. It's really amazing to see what some troops bring and the time spent lugging it all out set-up and tore down. Most scouts use backpacking stoves or charcoal for cooking. Occasionally on car trips some will make a treat with a Dutch oven but by and large that's as elaborate as it gets. If it rains we'll use a tarp or cheap plastic for the campfire program. We have loaner backpacks and tents primarily for new scouts until they learn the type of equipment to buy. Kelty brand backpacks and tents (2 Man) are popular with a lot of the scouts. The Jet Boil cooking systems is also something I'm seeing a lot more of. Do I feel like the program is lacking or its inconvenient not having a trailer; not at all. You really don't need all that stuff and you can get in and out of your site leaving more time to focus on your program\activity.