moosetracker

dlearyous - Don't understand your last line. still isn't a way to tell what post a person is responding to during a discussion You knew I was responding to you, because a started with dlearyous .. I knew you were responding to me because you started with moosetracker What do other forums do?? I guess I understand the 1 hour limit. Or one of my other forums lets me edit or even delete before a post is made to it. After someone posts a response, it is untouchable.. Take for instance in a different thread about a week back OGE, responded to me.. I responded back to him.. Being a forum auditor he has a few more priviledges then the rest of us.. He totally deleted his message, and left mine dangling in the wind, responding to nobody and not making much sense.. If people start responding to you in one way, then you return to edit yours to say something totally different, anyone coming in after the fact will read your first post, and not understand why the other posters commented the way they did.. Also I know I never re-read a thread from it's start after everytime I enter it. I start on page 2 or 4 or where ever I last left off, quickly find the last post I read and continue from there.. Changing posts I read 2 days back, is not something I would notice..

We had uniform inspection in our troop for a while.. Forget the award for having the best patrol. But one thing that gained you a few points was how you answered the question as to who sewed on you Rank.. If you did, you got a point more then the one that didn't. Had son & friend sewing their patch on.. The friend was all excited about finishing the badge to find he had sewed the badge not only to his uniform shirt, but the tails of the shirt he was wearing and his jeans, surprisingly did not prick himself with a needle.. I still believe the entry of the uniform for BOR, whether it is "Should" or "Must" does not make a troop A_holes if that make it a requirement for their troop.. Troops are well within their rights to require what is expected.. Many troop require full uniforms others partial uniforms, all within their rights. Better if the PLC, makes the ruling rather then the adults. National makes it a requirement to have FULL uniform to go to a National Jamboree, or World Jamboree. It is well within their rights as a uniform is expected of you.

Whew! MapleScouter! I just felt like I read your doctorate thesis! If that is a friendly off-the-cuff entry, then I think you should have been one of those who should have skipped through Elementary/HighSchool and completed his master at 15.. How old are you? Wow! Either you tone it down for your patrol, or you are running a troop of child prodigies.. First off the thought that came to mind was that, yes a patrol of 17 is too large, I got that reactions just reading the title. I was wondering why such a large patrol was allowed, but it sounds like your troop just allows boys to choose their patrols as they come into the troop, with no controls to limit patrol size.. Can you explain that procedure more, and why your patrol is a favorite? (bring it down a notch, pretend like I am one of your patrol members). Then I see a lot of planning by you for bureaucracy.. (youve got me running off to check my spelling as I dont want to look bad in front of the child genius..) And a high sense of running a perfectly functioning unit.. Sort of how adults might take over a troop to make it run perfect.. But, forgot that the scouts are there for the fun.. You mentioned In the past year there has probably been only 1 patrol outing total within the whole troop. So where there lost of troop outings, and just 1 patrol outing, or only 1 outing in a year for the whole troop? If only one outing That is what should be concentrated on.. If you cant get the troop out, get your patrol out.. Once a month.. Unfortunately for patrol overnights you now need two adult leaders, but with a troop that large surely you can rustle up a couple. For day outings you can take your patrol out without any adult leadership (providing the adults dont squawk).. Believe me the boys in your patrol will be much more appreciative of plans for fun then plans for making them all into their parents before their time.. Now if you want to work in assigning boys to organize and plan outings, great.. Assign them lead roles for that.. With your gift for planning you can probably come up with some unforgettable outings if you put your ambition and enthusiasm into it. Also don't look at your patrol as an experiment. They are your friends and you want to have a blast with them.. Enjoy your youth while youre young, you wont get the chance again. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Yeah I knew the signing of the card & SM verifying the MB was National policy. Don't know if the fact the SM is the only one to hold the Blue cards is though.. My husband (as Advancement Chair) did get ahold of a few. I think because they handed them out to my son at summer camp like water.. Anyway, Came in handy about a month ago. Had a scout insisting he took a MB with me, husband didn't have his card and is very good with the cards and never had lost one (Still not sure if this was him. Scout has prior history of accusing husband of having card, but when requested he relook, he would find that he had never turned it in). I didn't remember counseling him, but had my little stub of the blue card showing I had signed him off. So I re-filled out a new card for him, and then husband could take it to troop and have the SM re-do the signatures.. Saved about a week's time of replacement, process..

Sorry ScoutNut.. Just some friendly banter.. You picked up on the comment Plowboy made of >>"I'll work towards my DL knots as I go."

dlearyous - You can edit your post for up to one hour, after you post it. It is a small icon that looks like a sheet of paper near the top, near the thumbs up. It disappears after the hour is up. I guess they figure it has been up long enough and people have read it and wont re-read it, so after that you need to create a new post.. Also below you editing window is all the other posts from the current thread. I went down and copied your username as I could not remember how it was spelled. If I want to quote from a different thread altogether I open a second window, bring up the forum in that window, go to the other thread, copy and paste it into the first window..

Sorry - Engineer.. forgot to clarify they are no longer used at council. Yep, my husband who is Advancment guy for the troop (until Wed, when he turns in his data).. Still uses the blue cards on the troop level. But the troop is not as easily fooled by parents who want to make up their own bluecards for their sons to push them through.. Our troop though does have a policy that only the SM holds the blue cards, and the scout must go to the SM to get the blue card and discuss the councilor and get his signature before he can start the MB.

YOU WAS ROBBED!.. I even went to look up the Training award knot, it is for everyone in a unit.. But, does not apply to cub scouts all the other units, but not CS! Maybe it is because of the Pack trainer, but still like you said, not many Packs have a Pack Trainer, and everyone then fills in helping with the training.

At one time in my council I might have had a glimmer of a clue why. Now, I would not. We had a family try to get their boys to eagle by making up their own blue cards, and presenting them to council for credit. The father was the CC, so he signed the paperwork, the mother signed up for any MB her sons wanted credit on.. The council at the time used the blue cards as proof the MB was completed. Thing was, the records at council started not matching up with the record with the troop. When discovered, they got a hand slap, but no one revoked any of the fraudulent blue cards. (And the CC was dismissed as CC by the COR & committee vote.) But now, the blue cards are no longer used, everything is passed in through the computer..

Well I for one am sorry about where the post strayed.. Personally, although "the patch fell off" was a little hard to believe, I did not take the youth as a troll. The question was innocent enough, without much meat to it.. We are the ones who gave it meat. "The patch fell off" to me is a new twist to the excuse of "The dog ate my homework". The lack of giving more detail is a boy who doesn't want to give all the detail, because we might see where the fault is his.. Or a boy who does not like to write much.. The level of arguement was sad given it was a youth, but I do not think raises the cackles of this board as someone posting he is gay or a athiest and living a lie in his troop (or whatever).. If this was a troll he got no more raise then 10 other threads currently being discussed.. example : 1) "No CC Knot?" (another newbie asks a question that caused people to question his dedication to the scouting program.) 2) What is the purpose & function of a troop committee.. (Some fur flew in that one) 3) "What is Active in Troop vs. Crew for Eagle Requirement.. (Another newbie.. guy hasn't posted since the 16th, still it is being discussed & posted to daily.) The topic on the badge falling off would have been dead, with the youth not responding after the 2nd post, had people not come in to tell the scout to tell the adults in his program to stick it where the sun don't shine.

Plowboy - I hope you do stay posting. The more you post the more people will know who you are and where you are coming from.. You seem like the sort of hardworking individual who will earn the respect of most as they get to know you and your struggles.. True there will always be a few that need to put in a dig here and there, but then you will get to know who they are and not care a twit about what they have to say.. Most here just love the program, and get grumpy about people who are not here for the right reasons. They are protecting their virtual castle. But, when they hear from you and know that you are fighting as hard as they are in the trenches, you will get alot of warm hearted friendly advice.

evmori - Eagle92 already pointed out written policy that would make your statement incorrect.. http://www.bing.com/search?q=BSA+Advancement+Policies+%2333088&src=IE-SearchBox&FORM=IE8SRC - Page 29.. 2nd column.. He can wear a coat & tie to get out of wearing his uniform , and the uniform if worn should be as correct as possible.. Flip Flops shorts & tank top won't do (You want to add the coat & tie to that, great!) Otherwise you better be from a crew where Flip Flops, shorts & tank top are the official uniform. But, the badges may be anchored (neat and proper) without having to sew them on.. Now, maybe if you want to fight up to National, then National will not honor their own written policy and give the kid his badge.. But there is a written policy on what is considered proper attire for a BOR.

I guess I missed the other.. Truth is Basement your beef is not with a CC who is doing his job. I know you complain about parents who are unwilling to step up and help, so would love volunteers who are helping.. Your beef is with the knot.. Or people seeking a knot.. I know you feel the true reward is in the eyes of the boys you do the program for.. At least that is what I have heard from you on countless thread in various ways.. So just attack the knot, or the fact he is seeking a knot rather then being satisfied with a job well done, or the happy faces on the youth.. But don't attack the position, or the OP who you really do not know how much or little he is really doing.. Personally, if someone does a great job, and wants a knot too.. No harm. Our old COR had 4 or 5 rows of knots, and deserved every one she wore.. My husband has 3. He had the Eagle knot, and wanted to even out with 3 knots to fill out the row, thought it was lopsided with one.. My son is now seeking knots.. Not sure about his reasoning it may be due to the lopsided 1 knot of Eagle like his Dad, or he wants to outdo his Dad, or he is looking for ways to earn respect from the adults who still treat him as a kid. Both earn their knots by doing, then looking and saying "hey, didn't I do all that already?".. Husband missed some cub scout knot by one item.. As we were leaving the Pack, he was told (Hey if you had only gone to roundtables a few times you would have..." Oh well..) Anyway, sometimes the knot is not the whole reason the person is doing the job. There may be something behind it other then self-glorification.. That is OK.. Go for it. Problem comes in if someone just looks at the checklist of the knot award, and goes shallowly through the motions just jumping hoops for a knot.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Basement - very unkind.. You get out of a job what effort you put into it. A DL, may work hard, if they take pride in offering a great program to thier Den. But, they may not do much if they wait until a Den meeting and wing it, pass out awards like candy, or cancel or fail to show up to half the meetings, or are in it for their own kid and could care less about any of the others.. While a CC is considered very succussful if they have a well oiled machine, that is running so smooth all they need to do is host a committee meeting once a month. Truth is, the lack of willing volunteers or the issues of the Adult leaders that do not want to run the program right, can have a CC have a very full plate (if they in turn do not pass all the responsibility to the CM, but in fact work hard to support the CM.) You do not know the dynamics of Plowboy's Pack..

Plowboy - be prepared. Some people don't care for the knots.. Personnally I am fine with people who wear them, but was never big on wanting to jump the hoops to earn any myself. As to your question. Not sure why, but you can earn any knot for a committee member (a CC is a committee member with a title), my son just went after a training knot open to anyone.. And there are other awards that a committee chair can earn (sorry don't know what it is exactly) but it is something people in your pack nominate you for, and they choose from the packs who nominate their CC based on the write-ups and how the unit is functioning. Then you get the award at the district dinner.

Eagle92 - I have seen boys be great with each other, and very hard and unfair with each other. I have seen some troops who have the patrol leader (or if PL, the SPL/ASPL) but one boy sit on the board.. I think it was benificial for both boys (one on board, one having board) We tried to get something like that in our troop..

Engineer - it could be. Which is why before we wanted to reply we were asking Why?. Normally though kids with an issue that the parents or the SM & ASM's have taken over their program, and they want to find a way to get it back to being boy run, are more talkative, and explain themselves.. This scout is just not really talkative about asking our advice on the best way to regain control of their troop, but just being very cryptic. Pleasant enough with the thank-yous, but anchored patches however they are anchored, but enough so that it is not flopping around on one thread, and are secure enough that they are straight & neat, do not just "fall off.".. So there is some story behind that.. The demand for written proof, rather than an explanation that fixing the patch for the next BOR, and going back in a week, rings of a person gearing up for a fight.. I don't mind a boy fighting respectfully to regain control of their troop, by showing the parents that they are capable and asking for the space, or Kudu's normal response of taking those who want to out backpacking, and getting away from those who don't want the adventure.. I do not think it is right to fill the head of a youth that you do not know, but could.. mind you could.. be gearing up for an "in your face".. type of rebellion, the suggestion to be disrespectful of the volunteers who are running their program.. Kudu - you have done well in the past steering boys on a great path to reorganize their troop, and retraining or enlightening the adults to their capabilities, so that they give them the chance to do that. I just do not think you started off dealing with this boy in that same frame of mind.. Rather you told him to rebel disrespectfully.. (all but your last comment, to sew the stupid patch back on.) BDPT - exactly what I was thinking.. No need for this scout to make his path harder on himself, if his objective it truly to get to eagle.. If he wants to enlighten the adults in a respectful manner, then best he give us all the details so that we can help him figure out how to win his points, but allow the adults to believe he is taking the reins like a confident young man, rather than being rebellious and insolent.

Kudu - Normally I respect you for your trying to run a boy scout program the way they did one hundred years ago in England.. I am fine with your one sided view trying to encourage the Adults to return boy scouts back to it's basic roots.. I am impress that against all odds you have gotten a troop to work under the old program. But, as you state in your troop, you don't look at advancement, and few boys advance past first class, because that was pretty much where it stopped back in the day. You scoff at anyone advancing to Eagle rank. Confusing a youth who is going for star, because you don't agree with this part of the program, is cruel. I know you will be back, to argue against me, because it is your nature. BP's program was a game with a purpose as you say, but within that game was also a lesson about teaching scouts character.. It was not about teaching scouts to be disrespectful, and insolent.. BP was in favor of the uniform The uniform makes for brotherhood, since when universally adopted it covers up all differences of class and country.

jzweiac - Do you mean.. How do you incorporate your Den projects into the Pack meeting?.. That would make more sense. If so although it has been awhile, I do remember a table with projects on display.. More so I remember skits and plays and if a den get something that turned out to be an awsome or unusual activity, they got time to briefly discuss it, or put the den got a space in the newsletter (now adays it would be a web site).. That they discussed it.. Matter of fact with a web site, don't see why some pictures of art projects or the kids doing a great activity right on the website with a blurb about it.

Well BDPT00 gave it away, to be honest TwoCub & I probably hinted at it also.. Answer is "No" people (if they want the mess) can use BadgeMagic, or some use velcro for anchoring badges (normally adults like that for their position especially if they are holding down 2,3 or 4 different positions..) The problem is, I was willing to overlook the "badge on my left pocket fell off" just before your BOR.. But thought how well was it attached to "Fall off?" With the second post, I now have to question if the badge is a tangent example of an overall attitude within your Troop. And the postponment for the board is really due to Scout spirit, due to an "in your face" attitude, or and "I don't care" attitude. Were you asked fix the badge before the BOR? Were you wearing an older position and just not bothering to put the Star rank on? Is this the ice tip of other displays of not caring, or challenging others.. Now your position may be very innocent, that you would like to "respectfully" fix a misconception, for the benefit of other scouts who will come after you. And feel that as long as the badge is securly anchored, straight and appearing neat and presentable, it should be acceptable.. But, if your treatment of your badge, is not the real issue, but the issue is your attitude, then you returning with some smug statement and demand, will not help your case..

I hear what you are saying, about wanting to keep them in and keep an eye on them. My suggestion is to start the ball rolling with your being the bad guy to talk with the SE, about your concerns for the guys actions with the boys and the unit, his intrest in becoming a leader, and your wish to keep the boys in the unit. I do not know if the SE can call in the tip anonymously or not.. If they "maybe", you have the best of all worlds. Most likely the call will need to be made, I don't think the SE can decide what is & is not serious enough.. But if done anonymously, they "may" not know who reported them and keep the kids in scouts to show "good parenting".. The SE can then act as a bad guy and turn down the app (based on your information, if not the felony), and the rejection will not have come fron your unit. It could all blow up, if the SE can not report it anonymously, or the parents figure out you are the only group knowing the medicate with adult doses of Benedryl .. But, again.. You may have it all work out like a well formed plan.. And be able to sleep at night knowing the kids are getting needed attention. And you did your civic duty, and what is required of you from the BSA youth protection policy..

Agree with Twocub.. I could answer this, but I am looking at this as the fact that you can not get back last nights BOR. The only thing that matters at this point is how you conduct yourself at your next BOR.

Greetings, iamcalvin.. Welcome to the forum!! So sorry for your "wardrobe malfunction".. Board of Reviews rearly do postpone for a better time. But it does happen. They should though reschedule in a week or two.. All units are different. But yours sounds like a typical one. The Board of review is usually easy on the scout when going for tenderfoot, 2nd class, but slowly they expect more from a scout the further up in rank they go. Life is the last board you will have with your troop, the next board for Eagle will be with your District Board. This typically will be the board your troop will expect you to display the tributes of a well polished scout. They want to prepare you for your Eagle board and what will be expected of you. The Board "should" request you reschedule only for few reasons, but one could be uniform. It is one the Eagle board will expect from you (unless you are from a crew with no uniform).. Some boards demand full uniform of shirt & pants, some will not (your SM should know this unless you will be the first Eagle of the troop in a long time).. Take this as well meaning advice to get you prepared for your Eagle board.. Fix your uniform, and politely ask for a new board for the next troop meeting.. A week or two isn't too much to ask for.. But if your troop only does Boards once a month or just before a Court of Honor, I would politely ask that they reconsider this.

Yeah, qwazse - As stated before, our COR requires us to do the tour permit (now tour plan) for every outing even as BSA use to not require it if in the town your unit was in, and has now backed off to unless out of council, or a specific type of activity.. For our seabase those who were going had several manditory events to work up their swimming endorouse. For training we have got that Adults can't go on events unless certain training is complete. before allowed on any event (YPT, fast start, This is scouting) This was before national made YPT manditory. Then you have 1 year to complete the SM/ASM Specific & IOLS or will not be allowed on event again until it is complete.. These training requirements are for ANYONE wanting to go on events, including committee members & parents. On the forum, we have heard : CO's that will not allow a female adult to be SM or ASM.. CO's that state you must be a member of their faith. CO's or units of packs that have every den meet on the same night in the same place.. I am sure I am forgetting quite a few.

SSScout - Why the uni-shirt?.. If we start them young enough they can display their badges on their diapers..