moosetracker

Engineer... YUP!!!! Seriously all of that. Somethings play into it more then others.. Sometimes it's like the game of mouse-trap, where one thing touches off another, which touches off another. National giving the expectation of First class First year, is setting up an expectation. Maybe a little of Districts looking at this as one (only one) of it's checks to gauge the health of a unit. I think more so is the parents in a unit, pushing for advancement because they are not out of cub scout mode yet, or want their son to be the shinning star, and this is something they can measure. The SM's who are not trained correctly, or have gone through training, but the right things were not stressed. Or, SM's, who buy into the quick advancement mentality, (after all most of them are parents of at least one of the scouts in the troop themselves.) I think if there are boys competing with each other, that is the rarest of all you listed, but it does happen (probably still the boys who started the trend had some parents pulling strings), and when it does it could get a whole troop moving in that direction because the parents are happy with it, and the boys are defining their own program, so even the Scouters who try to let the boys run their own program, follow where the boys are leading them until they can find a good way to guide them into interest in a different direction.

I thought you were "older" (then college years).. But the statements just messed with my mind, especially when concerned with the drop out rate of ASM's if they were not youth.. Normally Adults stay for their kids duration, with a sprinkling few who linger on past that. Great ideas from everyone. My old troop (no longer involved) has done the "in a rut" to death, and now are at the stage of gasping for air. It was at Tempa's stage about 2 years back, but needs new leadership that "get" the vision, at that stage it had a chance to turn itself around. Currently though, it is just sucking air for survival. Saving your unit is great, if the leaders at the SM, COR, & CC have the desire to want to save it. My husband & son found it impossible to try to steer the unit while at the ASM or a committee position. So lets hope Tempa has a SM who is willing to work on changing the course the unit is currently on.

SP- I took the training about a year back. I remember it. I was new to the committee at the time, but it seemed kindof pie in the sky.. Maybe it is my personal position of not living in the district I serve, but just going out into the community, and asking people who have nothing to do with scouting to be on the district staff?.. I can see maybe if you know they are alumni. Our DE asks all the time for leads to fill the positions. I have never seen anyone offer suggestions, even those who live in the community. Of course we don't run our District committee the way they suggest. I have people who help me with the training. But, for the District committee, I am the sole representative of the District Training staff. No one cares to give up a night a month to go. But, it is the chicken & Egg problem.. The room we are in couldn't deal with holding small groups of seprate committees meeting. We have one conference table we all sit around.. With out the room, why should others come to listen to everyone elses reports? But without the need for a larger room that breaks out the committees, their is no need to change where we currently meet.

Tampa - I was kindof curious with the following two lines. Note I am a "Sophmore ASM" with no Boy Scout experience though I am very active. I function as one of the "conscience of the Troop". Older ASM's cycling out and middle guys dropped out (illness, moving) so younger guys had to step up. While we have lost some knowledge it provided an opportunity to change the culture (patrol reorg) I have never heard this applied to an adult leadership position, nor discribing ASM's (adult leadership again) as cycling and dropping out. Do you mean "JASM"? the youth equivalent of The ASM position?.. (In which case as a youth, you have more control to help steer your program, rather then coach your youth to steer it.).. But, I would not think you would be given title of a JASM with no previous Boy Scout experience. Or is your troop filled with college age young men who are doing the Adult positions, and your kindof monitoring their degree of staying with the troop. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

UCEagle - good for you! I see my early morning typing went a little wonky.. I definately wasn't awake when I wrote that. More then an hour has passed so I can't edit either. Where I said My DE was trying to move me into programs.. I meant into the Membership Chair's position. I know that didn't make sense to the reader since I just went on & on about enjoying being in the program area.

We find we get "enough" not alot to help with the program side of the district (that's where I am as Training chair). But few want to step into the positions that have anything to do with the "numbers" game such as "Friends of Scouting", financial, Membership. I guess no one finds in our district find hard-push sales "fun". Or the DE breathing down your neck for the numbers "fun". Or the need to drive around the whole district and using your own dime to fuel your vehical to get to each unit to push items "fun". For some reason we have it in our heads if we are going to spend time volenteering to do something, we have to see the "fun" in it. So my DE trys to push those of us in program int the empty positions, but we are hard to budge. My DE was trying to move me into programs.. I don't think it's a good fit. I tend to be very shy until I know you well, and that's a job for a person who is your best frient the minute they lay eyes on you. Also I live 30 minutes outside of the district I serve and at the bottom of a long narrow district. I could not drive all around the district, too much time and gas. I also just have an personal intrest in training. Always have.. Luckily our web guy at the last meeting opened his mouth at how well he headed his units membership drive, and that he enjoyed it. I knew the little radar my DE had swung on me was pulled off and landed on him. So just curious with UCEagles comment "If we get a volunteer, then we determine where the "best fit" is for that person and their circumstance." Do you really look for "Best fit" or rather try to "fit" them into where you need them? How about everyone else? Is your District top heavy with helpers for program, but not for the other side (is there a cumulative word for the other side)?

Sorry Scouter-Terry.. I would love to help, I do rack up alot of time on this forum. But, I know with some threads I get very bias, I do not think I would write something up that wasn't slanted. The next thing I know I would be the topic on the forum, of how I slandered someone and took their words out of context..

Very true Eagle72, but you are stating alot of weekend outings with the troop or patrol, more then once a month. If the OP stated that their troop was very active and listed this & that, then stated that they earned rank at summer camp using all the skills they had learned on troop outing, that is a different story. But, They earned Scout at first COH, then earned Tenderfoot, and 2nd class and most of first class at summer camp.. This doesn't sound like these kids were emursed in scouting for 3 whole months, but rather one week. There are always exceptions, the overly active troop going out more then once a month as in your case. A child who grew up with an older brother who was in scouting and came in knowing his scoutcraft from learning alongside his brother. The child who grew up with a family who spends many weekends in the backwoods. Or an overly gifted child that catches on quickly.. But for a normal troop, to have all their scouts advance this quickly through a summer camp program, points to scouts who got a rank that they now have to learn the skills that the rank already says they possess.

Tampa - How do I earn my Mommy award?.. Don't I need to get it by working to clear obsticals and pushing my scout through scouting faster then his true ability? Also where will be the proper place to display the new award on my uniform? It kindof kills the belief of some on this forum that First class it truely the highest rank, and all the other ranks are window dressing. If you can get First Class in 3 months, and still not know how to tie your shoes.

I guess if your summer camp signs off the requirements it's a done deal. Our camp just fills out of sheet of what they worked on, they then must go back to the troop & demonstrate the newly learned skills.. Summer camps are famous for just signing off after your first practice session, not when you demonstrate that you know the skill.. Since many troops have complained alot, Camps are now going the route of not truely signing off on it, but leaving it to the SM to decide if summer camp is good enough, or if they need to demonstrate to a troop member for sign-off.. my guess would be that this was too fast.. I would be fine with one or two who accelerated at this speed, but with the amount who did, I would suspect corners were cut, and they did not learn the skill, but rather were just introduced to the skills.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I know cubbers need a campsite from the "approved" list, Unsure if a State or full service campground near a site you want to visit needs to be approved but I don't see how hard it would be to get them on an Approved list. So just find camping nearby a great place to visit. The old plymouth plantation, or Sturbridge village are great historical sites.. How about a trip to Martha's vineyard? This might not make the "approved list" I am unsure how rustic this place is.. But, there is an area on Martha's vineyard reserved for BSA camping..

There was some article posted here awhile back, something about a couple running a cub pack but in included girls and seemed to run all ages even older the cub scout age.. But it did not state they were trying to combine the program, just put all this kids regardless of age or gender through cub scouts.. I think they were refugees from another country.. I believe they couldn't officially register them all either.. Strange, I thought Girl scouts were run like a den pack all the way up, so they are smaller loner groups.. don't know that much about it though.. I don't know, trying to find things that intrest that whole age range would be difficult. The older boys/girls I think would tire of it fast.

Funny SP! But, oh so true.. I respond to those who email me, and I get such appreciation back from them, as if it was very unexpected.. I email out to DCC & DUC & DE alot, my DE is responsive, the others are not. My son in his last few months before he turned 18 was looking for an MBC for a quick MB, to finish a 3rd palm.. We had no one in our district (or so we thought, his own father was one for one of the ones he was looking for, but forgot he was..) He wasn't on the list, but materialize a year or two after the fact.. Son looked at him, all he could say was "Oooops I forgot".. So he emailed out to all the Neighboring Districts, District Advancement Chairs, out of 3 or 4, not a single one responded to a youth inquiring about an MBC in their District that did one of a few easy MB's he had selected..

I have had some emails to some departments go into the great abyss. Like at myScouting about trying to straighten out problems with peoples training registration accounts. Many people have had their Membership Id's snatched away from them because someone else plugged the wrong ID into their account.. Anyway, not response to things like that.. Health & Saftey though, you usually get a response, even had a dialog of passing back & forth email, for better clarification.. I don't know if anyone else in that department helps respond to the emails, but our own RichardB I know has responded to me.. I think he does a super job of keeping communication open between National and us guys in the field.

Just kidding with you Scoutbox, about the spamming.. What is with the ";" in the middle of your link? I needed to copy it out and remove it, then I get the link up. Bavaria, sounds nice.. Hey, Readyman, Greater Niagria.. That might be in the area I was born & lived in until I was 7. Tondawanda NY, was a short drive to Niagria.. That's a nice spot too.

Sounds great, but I have no plans for flying to Italy (is that where it's held? The course didn't say, but your "about us" page said Italy..) If anyone wants a course a little more closer to home, in the gorgous New England Fall foliage, we have a course also in the Fall here in NH.. But it is 2 weekends broken up in Sept 16 - 18 and Sept 30 - Oct 1st.. http://www.nhscouting.org/registration/calendardetail.asp?orgkey=1801&ActivityKey=891631 If Scoutbox is promoting, I might as well jump on the bandwagon.. We might as well all get flamed for spamming by promoting our Woodbadges on the forum. Moosetracker Scribe for Woodbadge N1-330-11-1

Ick, bankruptcy, You guys are with us po' folks now. Once in bankruptcy, I don't believe that it is all your CO's choice to let you keep it, the debts have to be paid, and the assets Liquidated.. Who ever hoarded should be hung from the nearest tree, because the money now doesn't benefit the boys at all. It really will not benefit your CO's either. It would have been best if you had a heads up and moved out before they filed.

Pappadaddy touched on a problem with this, when he said I would spend it down before your CO wakes up and decides you have too much. Very true, this money is not the Troops, it is the CO's.. So do you want to use the money on the boys for scouting, or do you want to buy your charter Org a new roof?.. If your charter Org, needs money for some expense, an you have a wad of untapped cash, they are within their rights to use it. Helping with the roof, or the heating expense or what not, may be one thing, because you are benifiting from the facility, but your boys raised that money to do great thing in scouting. You so use it for their benifit, rather then loose it because you were hording and not using it for anything. Use it, or Lose it!

5year - that is a lousy way to run the advancement at your council.. Our council may loose training on the adults, and the info on who the MBC's are, but they treat the scouts advancement respectfully.. They did push for people to work with the on-line, because of a 6 month backlog, but until on-line was started I never noticed the backlog, so I don't know if something else around that time took presidence for our registrar.. On occasion their may have been one or two meritbadges missed, but very few data entry errors given the bulk of their load.. I end up re-keying in the ones for our unit, (double work because their is no way to download them to me, even in excel).. I go cross-eyed, for just one district, I am glad I don't have to do all 9 districts.. I am sure there is some data error also. I am glad I only do it for statisical purposes, because those boys would be in sad shape if they counted on me.. So I can see a few errors on our registrar's part, and they are quickly fixed. I pity the scout who looses his cards in your council.. What happens if his house burns down, and he did not have the forethough to rescue the BSA advancement cards? I know some people through the on-line system have back entered some missed MB's or ranks that either they forgot to give council, or it was a keying error at council.. In fact this is how my husband who is the district advancement chair instructs them to do.. I would get your troop to bite the bullet and have them use the on-line to correct your scouts advancement records themselves. Then continue to enter them through On-line.

Yeah, about $3,000 is what is our goal is for a slush fund, may dip under or over, but if at the end of the year we find surplus of that, we look for ways to spend it by paying for some parts of the upcomming events. We dipped under to buy a trailer one year, used I think it cost about 1,500.. People were annoyed that the CC expected it to be repaid like a loan until we got up to the $3,000 slush fund. But, it was done.

I will agree with those offering forgiveness & compassion & kindness on this one. Yes there are lies, and there are lies.. But this was not a lie that harmed anyone, nor one to cover up something else he did wrong. This one seems like it was hiding the fact that this guy is masking a deep emotional hurt.. One he is seeking a solution on how to put to rest, without letting everyone know how much it has hurt him. Consenses so far on this board is to be forgiving.. I am proud of all you guys who responded with care and kindness.. You can rip into some people when deserved, but you are showing that you can be compassionate also. But afscout, I do think it is time for you to get over the pain of your past by digging in and being the best leader for your unit, and local community.. Put pride in that. Many, many, many great Scouters have never had the Eagle rank, have never been in scouting.. They all make a name for themselves with what they do now, not what they did in the past. edited to add: I wanted to comment on something BadenP said. All I can say is you got a heck of a lot of nerve critizing others after lying to everyone here. I have looked at this OP's back posts, he has never been judgemental.. Asked questions, and gave out information in an attempt to be helpful, but never did he judge or criticize.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I am sure that "no rank is awarded..." crap came because scouts were given their ranks to wear proudly, but the paperwork never did get turned into council, leaving a scout ready for Eagle with 2 or 3 ranks missing from being recorded at council as every having receieved them. Let's face it, we are all bad with that evil paperwork non-sense, unless something forces us to do it. Beavah - It would be nice to award right away, but hard for units to have those spare patches on hand anymore, when they can only buy them with paperwork showing that the council did get the paperwork.

My son did one week with the troop and one provisional thoughout his scouting years. He loved it, in fact we paid for one of his summer camps, and then he would earn his provisional camp by himself. His first few years he did provisional at his home base, but then he started to travel and go to out-of-council camps.. Different MB's offered, different things to do during free time.. Some of the leaders who ran the provisional he liked alot, others not so much. Helped us out to, with both of us working, we were trying to schedule his summer weeks, so he wasn't home alone watching TV all summer, so it helped he enjoyed camp.

Guys, the Adult is not looking for this award, the OP is looking to suprise him with the award. And if I am not mistaken the OP is a youth member of the Troop. Skeptic are you saying you can complete everything to make Eagle, except turn in the application. Sit on your application for 5 years, and then turn it in and then get 90 from when you turn in your application, for a BOR.. We were of the opinion the application had to be at council before the 18th birthday, it even got timestamped when you brought it in, and that stopped the clock.. The BOR could be after the 18th birthday. When husband got email from the SM who was asking what to do with the application of a scout that was 18 yr 2.5 months, he thought he had already missed the window, but the council said no, but he only had 1/2 a month to turn it in and get a BOR..

SP - What says you can not bill the parent?.. Many, Many, Many, Many troops function this way. They do a budget where it is divide between the scouts, each parent is told the fee is x amount.. You can raise it selling x amount of popcorn but if you don't raise that much the difference is billed to them.. Many parents choose to opt out and pay the full amount not to have them or their child deal with fundraising.. I was in 1 pack & 3 troops, all from different CO's this was the practice in all 4 units. And it was a policy in place before we signed on. Some had 100% of popcorn raising to the troop, some had it that they met the stated amount, then the rest went to the scout fund. Our last one had 100% until the met the mark, then 75% went to the scout & 25% still went to the troop. What I have never heard of is not including the equipment replacement into the troops yearly budget..