moosetracker

This passage seems to say the Lord approved of war and slaves.. And wanted his share of the spoils.. Numbers 31: 25-40 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, take the sum of the prey that was taken, both of man and of beast, thou, and Eleazar the priest, and the chief fathers of the congregation: and divide the prey into two parts; between them that took the war upon them, who went out to battle, and between all the congregation: and levy a tribute unto the LORD of the men of war which went out to battle: one soul of five hundred, both of the persons, and of the beeves, and of the asses, and of the sheep: Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD. And of the children of Israel's half, thou shalt take one portion of fifty, of the persons, of the beeves, of the asses, and of the flocks, of all manner of beasts, and give them unto the Levites, which keep the charge of the tabernacle of the LORD. And Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses. And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep, And threescore and twelve thousand beeves, And threescore and one thousand asses, And thirty and two thousand persons in all, of women that had not known man by lying with him. And the half, which was the portion of them that went out to war, was in number three hundred thousand and seven and thirty thousand and five hundred sheep: And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen. And the beeves were thirty and six thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and twelve. And the asses were thirty thousand and five hundred; of which the LORD'S tribute was threescore and one. And the persons were sixteen thousand; of which the LORD'S tribute was thirty and two persons. (restated in more modern English) The LORD said to Moses, 26 You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured. 27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community. 28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the LORD one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep. 29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the LORDs part. 30 From the Israelites half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the LORDs tabernacle. 31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses. 32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep, 33 72,000 cattle, 34 61,000 donkeys 35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man. 36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was: 337,500 sheep, 37 of which the tribute for the LORD was 675; 38 36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the LORD was 72; 39 30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the LORD was 61; 40 16,000 people, of whom the tribute for the LORD was 32.

Ok, got email from someone looking for Den Cheif training, was hoping I was putting it on in tommorrows courses.. I am not, wont until June.. Kindof looking for earlier.. I thought there was on-line training to get him quick up, but on checking there isn't (off topic, but when there noted that for cubscouts 2 specific courses seem no longer offered in English but Spanish only? Tiger & I think Wolf.. I also thought that like all jobs you could be a Den Chief without the training? But maybe the Troop or Pack added the condition that training comes first.. Also thought there was maybe something a Pack trainer could put them through as a quick start.. The Den Chief Training by district has lots of game play, not really a one-on-one type of training.. Any suggestions on what to recommend or offer??

OnceanEagle - Thing is the Bible saw all of that as perfectly acceptable behavior.. Doesn't mean God found it acceptable, but means the people who wrote the bible found it not to be a problem, therefore it was acceptable.. Thing is morality does change over time, as people become more enlightened.. Those found as acceptable in the bible change to become unacceptable, and those that were unacceptable with enlightment become acceptable.. Alot of what God finds acceptable or unacceptable is really unknown and a guesswork of man.

I do not pretend to be an expert on ancient history, but I found this brought up in a few places.. Something about interpreting the passage to mean "men" not "boys".. So a law was passed that it was not immoral for you to lie with boys up to nine years & 1 day.. It was just interesting information in passing.. I always knew that sex and marriage was at younger ages especially in the midevil times and earlier, due to lower life expectancy.. I also knew men would sell their women as chattel, or put them in matches that made family alliences.. And that older men would buy (or enter into family alliences) with younger women.. I guess taking all that into our past beliefs in what was acceptable practices.. It is not such a mind-numbing jump to believe their were also other types of sexual activity occuring that was considered acceptable, that we today would find as immoral, and damaging to the children involved.

Eagle92 - I saw the movie A Scouts Honor.. Your mother took away the wrong message. Although the perpetrator (not a homosexual I might add) was very scary at what he did. The true crime was that these parents none of them got involved with their childrens lives.. They simply dumped the kids off for the scout meeting or for an event, and left them with one man.. ONE MAN.. to conduct the entire program.. Two deep leadership may have come out of this, but this was beyond two deep.. Not a single parent ever got involved.. Scarier still was when one set of parents found out decided to keep the secret as long as you leave my child alone and felt absolutely betrayed that he did molest their children. Even the parents that were killed found out about three days earlier, and were killed for their knowledge, but in three days they never went to the police? Or told a single other person?.. The crime was the parents.. The message your mother should have gotten was to stay involved in her childrens lives including their after school activities. Vol_Scouter - Now you got me started which is dangerous! I went around and looked for my own scientific studies.. I just looked at 3 different studies, all with very different ways to conduct the study. One showed 0%, one showed 1% (equal proportion to population), and one showed homosexual males were equal to heterosexual males in response. Again the statement was made that was a chance for error, and it was hard to get a cross-section.. But none stated because of the error it is presumed that it meant homosexuals are equal to 3 times more likely to be a pedophiles/hebephiles.. One of the difficulties is that most pedophiles/hebephiles are neither homo/hetero/bi - sexual at all.. Since they were never able to form an adult sexual relationship. Wherever you got a study that failed to prove their hypothesis, but assumed the hypothesis must still be correct is a study that was bent on angling the scientific outcome to fit the hypothesis and failed, so I would agree the study had a lot of error, more so then a study that started out without an assumption, or if it did, did not conclude their hypothesis still must be correct because the study had a hard time getting a true cross-section for data comparisons. So there is 4 studies.. 3 we don't know the hypothesis.. One we know was trying to prove they were more of a threat.. But all four showed they are no more a threat then anyone else. I also found out some other great and interesting stuff.. Like Jews in the Middle Ages were accused of murdering Christian babies in ritual sacrifices, in order to scare others into believing they were immoral.. (This one I knew but never equated it to this arguement.) Black men in our recent past history were falsely accused of raping white women, and had to fear even looking directly at a white women.. Also the laws against having sex with a minor were only introduced in the 19th century. The Judeo-Christian and other religions tolerated and even affirmed pedophilic relationships for centuries. It was the enlightened people who brought about the laws against it as they learned the negitive effects it had on children.. I think someone used the following quote to state the Bible was against homosexuality.. Leviticus 20:13 (If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman . . .) Which does show the bible does have a statement against homosexuality.. Well here is the original law for that citation... "Which is that there is no penalty for men who have sexual relations with boys under the age of nine years and one day.".. So if the biblical beliefs have been fine for all for many a century as Seattle claims.. We should re-establish the law as it was implied.. Or accept that beliefs in morality have changed over time, the more enlightened we become.. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Please don't tell me one of your ticket councilors are "one of them".. Is it someone you know and have locked horns with.. Ticket councilors can all work in different ways.. Scheduled meetings.. Looking at and checking off each ticket once accomplished (email, phone, whatever).. Never talk to them, pass in your items when the ticket is completed.. You are reminding me, that I am suppose to get in contact with the two I am ticket councilor for, just to see if they have any questions about how to get started.

There is Merlyn who keeps the discussion churning.. He & son are unable to join because they are athiests.. Others are new people to the forum.. Others might be older guys, but you will find it is not the same person all the time, except for Merlyn who will bring us all the news stories on the subject, to start a new thread.

Yeah.. I know on another thread someone was yelling about leaving political debates in the political forum area.. Went right over my head he was talking about me.. Someone asked what would cause an SE to revoke their BSA membership.. I listed a few things, plus the gay & atheist in with the list of things.. Just straight no comments added list.. I thought they were yelling at someone for bring in the subject of Occupy Wall street, or the President.. Until he later directed it to my post.. What was political about a straight forward list of what can get your membership revoked I don't know.. (Are we suppose to keep the fact secret or something..) If so, I think the secret is out.

I agree, it isn't a "systematic political agenda".. If it is that, we are doing it the wrong way, because aren't we suppose to be systematically turn up the heat on the people who can make the change.. I don't think anyone on this board is in the position to make the change.. I think the highest up we get peaking in is Richard B.. Which is pleasent when he does, but except for influenceing maybe a tweak here or there to the medical form, or G2SS.. Not in the position to single handedly strike discrimination of homosexuals off the records.. And wouldn't anyway due to a few rowdy posters.. But, we do have a little too much fun with the grumpy old conservatives, just to see their feathers, get ruffled.. It is fun, but maybe 2 or 3 posts in a week are a little too much for them.. Normally we only have this much fun about once a month..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Go in with the right attitude, (which you seem to have) and (hopefully) a staff that follows the course syllabus.. You will get alot out of it and enjoy it.. It is not all classroom.. True lots of presentations, but also there is time for just pure fun and games with your patrol.. If the staff is good they will make it fun too..

With our over population a little infertility, may help..

That is sad.. Our Course Directors tell us they go to the course all Course Directors go to before the run the course, and have to sign in blood that they will follow the syllabus.. Sure there are differences due to the personalities of those who run it, technical difficulties, maybe some shifting due to the hurricane coming through.. But, all in all the course should run as intended.. I was surprised that when I was given a 1 hour presentation, my first pass I practically memorized the book and regurgatated it.. "No, No.. ".. "Redo".. Keep to what they want covered, but in your own words with your own examples.. This stuff in gray "MUST" be in it.. The rest is what they want covered and you must draw them to a similar conculsion, but not spit out as a robot.. So total rewrite, and everyone said I nailed it.. And I as a trainer learned what and how to interpret what they want from you out of a syllabus.. So course is to make participants first class and make lots of ToDo to the fact the youth are ready to be on their own and staff pack up and leave.. Everything may be done in the Staffs own words & motions.. But the bottom line is the participants draw the conculusion they are now able to camp as a patrol without adult leadership..

Actually the WB if done right is still deminstrating the old style of patrol method camping without a leader... Shhhh.. Don't let National know.. First off the TG would not have been your adult supervision, the TG is a youth position.. It's a hard concept lost on some.. You get you are a patrol, therefore taking on the role of the youth.. But harder to note is your patrol in basically guided by the Troop Guide & the SPL.. (youth led positions).. The SM doesn't do much.. Easy to get lost in "staff" and thinking all "staff" are the adult positions, so this concept is not picked up on by many.. But as for camping the first night the SM, ASM, TG's etc camp in a base close to you.. The next day you are given first class rank.. TG's go into venturing (no longer troop).. And much todo is made out of them LEAVING you "youth patrols" ALONE, taking down their camp and going home!!!! But you are right.. in the program No more extended hikes.. if it is overnight it is overnight and there must be 2 deep leadership.. So at some time the syllabus will probably change to reflect that the adults don't leave you.. You still do have your ability to have day events for a patrol with no adult leadership..

Seattle - Bravo! Spoken like a true elitist! Those in which the rules favor them, find no fault with the rules.. vol_scouter - I will agree that the statitics may be in error enough to state maybe everyone is of equal risk.. It would be foolish for our childrens sake to turn your back on the safety of your children to any group of people due to the belief their group is harmless. That goes for 80 year old grannys and grampys, although statics will show them at a lower threat also.. But I have to laugh at an idea that you feel homosexuals may be at higher risk then heterosexuals to become pedophiles, because the statics that state they are at lower risk, may be incorrect.. Therefore it is better to treat them as if they are the group that is the higher risk.. That is utter twisted non-sense, made up because you can not let go of your own prejudices..

No stinky scouts in my unit.. They are simply well perfumed..

Nope.. Not of the "if it feels good do it" camp.. Just in the camp that in alot of cases homosexuality is not a choice. But, something genetic.. At least those who settle down with a long term partner, and a routine lifestyle.. There are the ones who young in life are experimenting, but I would put them in the same boat as heteros who are sleeping around.. If you haven't settled down, then a role model for scouts is not the best fit for you.. Come back in 5 or 10 years when you are more mature. Of those who are genetically engineered to be homosexuals I will not condemn them as sinners, or immoral.. No more then I would condemn any other birth defect. Sometimes severely deformed people make me uncomfortable, because I am not sure how to act around them in a way that is natural.. But that does not mean I would exclude them from my Scout organization to relieve me of any discomfort.. I would welcome them, and hope that over time I get to know the person so that the defect becomes unnoticable over the spirit of the person I have come to get to know.

Our Council has not run it yet either.. Maybe next year?? But I think even if they run the new one they may continue with the old one too. I guess that one would not be sanctioned for the official NYLT (whatever they get).. They ran the old one this year rather then the new one, and they had over 2.5 times tha allowed people sign up and ran it way over full.. I do not know if it was scouts from our council jumping on for the possible last time the "good" program would be run (Personally don't know if old is better then new, but suspect it will divide like woodbadge with old timers stating the new program is far worse).. Or if it was people coming from other councils that were running the new program, and they came here for the old program. I was surprised that they could run with an over flow, especially a 2.5 overflow.. My main concern is not so much the terminology, as the fact someone stated they don't run it as a patrol.. So what it is one large group?.. Can you get anything done, or form consensis in one large group?..

jrush - The two deep leadership rule is, that if you have any adult leadership it must be 2 or more.. If you have no adult leadership then it can be zero.. They downed the overnights without adult leadership, but day trips (for a patrol, not a troop or a subset of the troop) are still allowed to have no adult leadership if they have parents consent.. So while the 2 deep on overnights is correct it is not for YP reasons.. It is for some other "cover your butt" reason.. But other then that you are correct WB would be silly to demonstrate something that troops can not do, per BSA rules.

OH No.. I fear the stinky scouts from the other troop during summer camp and Camporees.. Peeewwwweeeeee!!!! We need National to take a hard line stance!

Basement It is not a private school thing.. The public schools are getting into the act too.. For our public school it was I believe Junior & Senior year and about 100 service hours..

Don't sell the uniform in any size past Large.. Can't fit the uniform, can't be in Scouts! I always thought mentally awake meant no daydreaming and getting all A's & B's on the report card.. What about the stinky kids that don't shower while all week at camp.. Or is it that they are out for swearing..

Seattle.. BITE YOUR TONGUE !!! now let go, and then bite it again!!! Horrid idea!! There is already too much of a preference for some Packs & Troops to be more school oriented and less outdoors and fun oriented.. Those types of troops are boring the scouts out.. The GS are failing due to the emphisis on work, and the lack of outdoor fun.. Girls want to be Boy Scouts, because Girl Scouts don't do what they do.. The Merit Badges are plenty sufficient to explore possible career opportunities..

May also be the schools call.. It was not a question for the Scoutmaster when my son went through it, because the school set the rule that the service time could not be while doing a service project with some other organization.

In our district.. For Boy Scouts, seems the most popular day in our district is Thursday. I'd say about 85% to 90% of our units meet then.. Then it a sprinkling for other days.. It is very hard to visit other troops, if your troop also meets on Thursday. Cub Scout Den meetings are All over the place, but for Pack meetings the two most popular are Thursday or Saturday.. Have no reason why.. But, for our district I know Mondays may be difficult for some units, as the roundtable, District Committee meeting & other district stuff (except camporees) like award dinners etc.. All meet on Monday.

Not in GS but I have a trainer that does training for both BS & GS.. I am surprised about the training issue, because she tells me the training is much more encompassing in GS.. She does the medical training, and talks about some survival course where they have to survive on what they find in the woods.. Berries & roots & create a make-shift shelter from nature etc.. Somewhere in it she does a first aid course that is like 5 times better then the time we allot her to cover first aid in IOLS.. I do have a feeling though that while the training covers a large territory (maybe like a council training rather then a district training).. The participant registration is small.. But, it sounded like if the GS took advantage of it, there was better training then offered in the BS.. Just many don't take advantage of it..