moosetracker

Jay - Why should National revise the tour Plan?? They have it correct, you need Baloo Training.. Your Council and you have it wrong, you need to re-educate your whole council, and stop allowing Packs who are camping without BALOO training.. The IOLS & OWLS are similar and they are attempting to combine those. From what my Council Chair states, we are now behind a few other projects before it is rolled out, but it is slated to be combined.. (Don't know what caused them to retract the one about to be rolled out a year back and then rather then fix the problem, throw it to the bottom of the stack). Anyway BALOO has some annoying parts to someone trained in IOLS like the campfire program camping equipment and cooking.. But there are differences too.. You are not organizing patrols.. You are organizing family camping, some families never having camped.. How to organize equipment since the Pack will not have family camping equipment for 50 families in their storage shed.. Rules, Rules, Rules because of the younger age group. Because it may also include siblings from infant on up to teenagers, info on how to keep everyone occupied.. IOLS / OWLS not so different.. A few things the Webs can't do.. BALOO has similarities but also enough differences to keep it a seprate course.. And you don't need to be the one who is BALOO trained.. I always suggest to get someone in your pack who has young scouts.. No good training the Webelos Leader if they are crossing over with their son to the troop next year.. And it could be a committee member who is fine with going on the Pack Campouts..

And here just 2-3 days ago vol_scouter was upset he could not join the Girl Scouts, and I was going to campaign for him..But stated that boys normally did not want into the Girl Scouts.. Wrong on both accounts. Boys do want into the girl scouts. And it seems I will not campaign for VS if he just changes his outfit... PS.. Before VS sues me for slander.. This is all tongue-in-cheek.. Although said.. VS really doesn't want into the GS, he was just trying to proove a point.

Lets hope not.. Didn't really understand it but, something about the syllabus did not change for the next year, so they didn't get new syllabus books.. and this year we are doing 2 courses not 1 (when normally we just do one).. So guess what is being copied by the boat load..!!

Oh I do think that if they run the old course, the participants wont get the doo-dad at the end of the course no more (They don't get beaded except for 1 or 2 Adult positions could get a 3rd bead, what doo-dad do NYLT participants get?) But this board has stated some places still run the old WB & BrownSea etc.. My guess is that if they want to, they will continue it unofficially.. We will see if they do, and if they do if they continue to bring in the numbers (as stated this year they more then doubled the max limit of the class, so many people wanted the old course not the new one.. And they overbooked to accomidate them.) I am unsure they will overbook again, our Council Chair was not happy they did that as she felt it would be hard to manage and the participants would be the loosers.. But, I think they just had so many begging to be able to take the old course, and they felt bad turning them away.

This summer the old course was held in NH at Camp Bell.. They are talking about the new course, but I also know they will fight to keep the old course. Last I heard they were going to see about running two seperate courses..

Why is yours still 5 different unrelated projects?.. We had the 5 unrelated projects. Then they went to 5 projects under an umbrella, so you had to tie all your projects to something, easiest things were something like organization, or Outdoor program something like that.. Now it is one vision of where you want your unit to be in about 1 year to 18 months but the tickets are various steps to get their, in other word your missions..

Did you have something to say Scoutfish? Or is it that you just liked that meal that much?

You would first have to get them signed up to be on district committee in the position the job is they want them to do before they went to woodbadge to con them into doing a job for district.. At least we are told we can not do something for an area you are not registered with.. That change between the year my husband took it, and I took it.. At that time each ticket was a seprate project all on its own.. My husband set one ticket to work with a district training and it was fine. I tried it the next year, and could not.. Neither of us were on the district training team. But then if we were, we couldn't have done something like that, because we were already doing it, and it had to be something that we were not already doing. The WB ticket is a lot easier now, with one project and 5 steps to reach it.. But (at least in our council) it has to be to improve the unit (or whatever) that you are currently registered with and within the relm your position has control over. I just tell people if you think the area within your relm of control has room for improvement, your ticket should come pretty naturally, and go to woodbadge to figure out how to define it.. If you think it is perfect and there is no need to improve it, you will have a difficult time with your ticket..

Our Council hasn't run the new course yet.. They ran the old one and Venturers are not invited yet.. I am glad to here at least they are breaking them down into patrol sized groups. I could not fathom one whole free for all big group and getting anything accomplished.. I agree with you & Eagle92 "Assistant Course Director of Youth Operations" is a mouthful and not something that will stick with you.. "ACDOYO" for short..

2CubsMom - when you do get up to Boy Scouts hopefully you will learn to bring your mama bear insticts into check.. When a Scout is at his Eagle Board it is similar to a job interview.. He may get a nice interveiw, or a tough unfair one.. But mama can not jump into the job interview and protect him from it.. Same with an Eagle Board. I would hope this guys were impressed that this scout stood his ground... But had anyone stepped in and fought his battle for him, it would have not spoken well for him.. Congradulations to the new Eagle!

BS-87 - Even on this page there have been two new developments.. Acco40 - Keep in mind that "intelligentsia" references the arts, social sciences and culture and rarely those involved with the natural sciences, applied science/engineering, mathematics, medicine, etc. As such, your claims are vacuous. (Here I thought they were scientists back in the day when scientist didn't have to prove their theories only make up something plausable).. CalicoPenn - You keep saying this: "the percentage of homosexuals in the population is 2% according to the CDC" but according to a fact sheet put out by the CDC just last month (September, 2011), the estimate of homosexual men (and just men) is 4%. I wasn't argueing the

Our Eagle Board does not rehash those things accepted by the unit.. They are concerned with the Eagle project plan, and then the Eagle project completion.. Then it is just talking to the Eagle canidate. I think the only thing besides not carrying out the project as it was approved in the first place, or reorganized by discussing a change of course due to unforeseeable problems (and then it is more a delay while they fix the incomplete).. I only know them to refuse someone for saying they are an atheist.. Otherwise I hear of scouts who are very self-confident and carry themselves well, and others that are not so polished.. But everyone else seems to pass just fine..

Sorry correct all use of the word pedophile for pedophiles/hebephiles.. I did correct it for a while, but the normal population just uses pedophile to signify anyone who sexually abuses minors of any age, so I started to fall back into bad habits.. You are right running expensive test wouldn't be very "kind" or "friendly", but more accurate then discriminating against a group due to an unjustified fear.. As for the church - From what I understand it you are a member of the church when you are baptised.. Most are baptised when they are babies, and I don't think those babies read and signed any paperwork.. As I understand it with Catholics, once baptised it is very hard to be removed as a member. I have not joined a church since being in NH, but I joined two one in Chicago and one in Massachusetts, and no paperwork needed, but then I fancied very informal and liberal churches.. packsaddle & acco - you guys summed up that viewpoint very nicely.. I know it was stated about the unfairness of other religions having to follow the moral beliefs of LDS/Catholic in the BSA rather then their own beliefs earlier, but the fact that BSA was claiming to be absolutely nonsectarian, I do not believe was mentioned.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Your right Shortridge, that is a very good point that jrush made.. And one I don't remember reading. I will have to go back to look for it, maybe we cross posted and I missed reading something above the last post I made.. Goes along with what I have said, the more open they become, the less anti-homosexual groups can spin false rumors to maintain a fear factor about a secretive group of people.

Vol_scouter - I will not argue that homosexuals are less then

Whenever I joined a church, I chose because I liked the minister and the congregation of. I was protestant, husband Catholic.. We both became members if we so chose, no one asked us to sign some documents of belief.. You want to be a member here.. Welcome! Never asked if we believed, just figured we found something to our liking, and if at whatever time we did not, we would move on. Most churches work on the basis that while a member you will learn and grow and your belief will grow with the association, then that you must conform and abide and follow some sort of strict set of rules, before being accepted as a member. Hmmmmm.. I guess I misunderstood you coupling in one paragraph, my statement that the Southerners were pulling quotes from the bible to prove their right to own slaves, with the statement about the Scientific theory of a different species to state that they did not try to prove their right to own slaves using the bible as their source of proof.. Instead you are trying to prove that science can be wrong.. Especially science that is all theory with no attempt to test to validate.. Sort of like the following incorrect scientific theory with no conclusive evidence: 1) Almost all sex crimes against children are committed by men. 2) Up to one-third of all sex crimes against children are committed against boys. 3) Gays make up a tiny minority of the population. (Anti-gay opponents typically cite a figure somewhere between 1% and 3%.) 4) Therefore, gay men are committing a disproportionate share of sexual crimes against children. Well sounds good.. Except pedophiles is about the age not the sex. And most pedophiles are not hetero or homo, but simply have formed neither type of relationships.. And the remaining case studies and experiments have prove that there is no higher percentage of homo to hetero.. Now maybe the case studies and experiments that are summarized in my last paragraph are not 100% sound, but they are a whole lot more reliable, then wild theory that doesn't have any case studies or experiments to offer for proof.. They are just that, made-up theories to feel justified in your beliefs. Both the theories dated to around the time of slavery and the holocaust and the theories made up by anti-gay activists in the recent past, which even now they are letting go of because it is just making them look foolish.. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

vol_Scouter - I will support your right to join the girl scouts! After being with that group for a while, it might allow you to be more forward thinking with the boy scouts! Seems we are running around the maypole again with this argument. I am sure it was discussed in the 10 pages back, but here goes.. The argument that pedophiles/hebephiles will become acceptable behavior is absurd as it was the product of becoming more enlightened about the negative effects it had on children that brought about the change in the first place. The movement is not about the rights of some at the expense of others.. Those who look at pictures have either taken the pictures themselves or financially supporting those that do, therefore there is damage to children for those pictures to be taken. Somethings you mentioned as discrimination is not discrimination at all, you are free to achieve it if you work at it.. Your are wrong that All churches discriminate. That must be an oddity of your church, as I have always been welcomed at any church I visited, and many have a something on their sign board stating "All are welcome".. Some of your other arguements sound odd, like a child throwing a temper tantrum, but I am sure if there is just cause there may be a future movement on it.. I don't know about a movement to get boys into the girl scouts, because I don't see anyone who wants in, but I do see a movement to get the girls into the boy scouts.. Maybe some will see the arguement that of discrimination.. Now about the thing about the scientific theory that they were a different species.. it is true that theory was out there, but they did not think blacks were not human, just a different like a collie and a hound dog were both dogs, but different.. That allowed Europeans to state they were the superior race.. After all they were superior over anyone they sought to control, Blacks, aborigines, Aztec and American Indian.. But then all conquerors thought they were the superior race with or without the scientific theory.. But.. That was only one argument, and not the ONLY argument, and one of the arguments was on a religious platform, and taking quotes out of the bible, to prove that they were in the right to own slaves. http://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp Just like those now who wish to argue their right to not treat homosexuals fairly. The supporters of slavery twisted and turned any argument they could in order to justify their stance. Including the Bible.

My son was like that, hard to get going, once there hard to get to return home. It was like he tries to put down permenant roots where ever he went. I am glad that he had fun doing community service, that is what groups like BSA, high schools etc. are hoping for with the required community service, that the kids will find something to do that they get true enjoyment from, and that helps to develop them wanting to do community service on their own.

John-in-KC - Scratch the Catholics jumping ship.. I was unsure if I could find a link to Catholics & Girl Scouts seeing that they don't do charter orgs.. But, yep.. I found that the Catholics still work with the Girls scouts.. Even though they are said to except Homosexuals, Lesbians, and was hearing grumbles about them being feminists and are ok with planned parenthood, including abortions.. Yet the Catholic Church still supports them, see.. National Catholic Committee for Girl Scouts USA and Camp Fire USA, http://www.nfcym.org/gscf/index.htm.. Now reading some of comments on the subject by catholics, some catholics are saying they should no longer be supported, Some are upset with the planned parenthood/Feminism but are glad they now accept homosexuals, some have no problem at all with the program, others hope to change it from the inside... Hmmm.. Flip the coin, and the Catholics will stay, but just continue to debate the pros & cons.. Similar to what we are doing here.. They will be fine with being able to control the leadership within their own units.. As stated earlier LDS maybe.. But the Catholics are happy to take concern over their flock, without feeling the need to dictate to the world.. The other ones I don't well them well enough to know if they would be happy to guide their own flock, or have a need to be in control of the world, but I do not know either if they would have that much impact (that last one seems to be more supporting of a different youth group anyway.) Scoutfish - I agree, it is partially the principle.. And the fact I don't think we should teach youth to by hypocritical, trying to teach them to be acceptable of all diversities, then be discriminating in our rules. And your right the amount of homosexuals that will join will probably be no more then the amount already involved.. Anyway how much impact can 1% of the population make?

Except for something on a 360 assement, and the ticket worksheet themselves, paperwork is not what Woodbadge is about.. Especially considering you have got CS, BS, and ventureing Leaders and all the paperwork is different.. Paperwork is in your Specifics training.. I should know I have 508 pages of paperwork out in my car ready to be passed out tomorrow for specifics training BS one set, Cubmaster another set, Tiger leader and different set.. Different for each & every breakout.. Den leader, Webelos leader, Committee & Pack Trainer..

gutsy of you.. But, I guess I would have taken the path of talking to the COR first and maybe the cub master. I would like to see if they agree with my point of view, and see which way they would appreciate the subject approached. I fear with no heads up they are going to get HIS side of the story and his anger and without coming to terms with what you are looking at take his side. Then you will be trying to dig yourself out of a hole.. I do not agree that all crossovers are to move to their respective CO's troop, but I dislike when Adult Leaders use their influence to steer them away from their respective CO's troop.. I more feel the webelos should visit more then one troop, with no influence from anyone and choose a program they think is a better fit for them. Maybe an impossible dream, given that adults have a hard time letting our youth make their own decisions...

I will be honest, I am not a scientist.. And half the papers I saw were so scientific I got double vision trying to figure out what they were trying to say.... So, all three studies were from one paper that condensed (and explained to us non-scientific types) in one paper.. Here is the link.. Looks like reference is cited, but I can not say if that means they are from peer reviewed journals or some other source.. http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

In 1970's a poll was conducted and 75% felt homosexuals were more likely to be pedophiles.. In 1995 a similar poll showed only 18% had the belief.. Fifteen years later? Bet if conducted again, it will now be that much lower.. Until soon **poof**!! All gone! Now I haven't found a study on people discomfort level around homosexuals.. But I would imagine that that currently is higher at this time (and some may leave due to discomfort), but is also shrinking year after year.. Given time **Poof** that will be gone too... And discomfort is no reason to discriminate. Nor really is a belief they are pedophiles by ignorant people who have no proof of it.. I know a troop who did not want to deal with a scout that was mentally slow, since they couldn't drop him over it, they systematically found ways to discourage him from staying.. So did their discomfort make what they did correct?

Thank you both.. Both pieces of info will be great to pass on.

I agree.. It is getting off topic.. The only thing on topic, is that as stated, what was once seen as acceptable behavior, (meaning not morally wrong in the eyes of God), has since been found to be unacceptable behavior (and in some cases as with the rape, morally wrong).. And churches over time have come to accept that and no longer highlight those passages as something that is a good topic to promote in the next Sunday service.. But guarentee the South around the civil war would use the passages to uphold the believe that owning slaves was morally justified.. Just as todays conservative will hold up a Bible passage to prove homosexuality is immoral..