moosetracker

Ok I have been on this forum writing, writing, writing for over a year.. I personally feel my writing style is much more personable then my in-person style.. In person I am a very shy person.. So am I wrong, do I have a friendly writing style (forget when I am on my soap box about pet peeves).. So as stated in another thread, I am on WB staff as a TG.. Our group have several projects to work on, our 3 presentations, and our TG project. I know more will be added (divvying up the skits, and other small parts) .. So after our first Staff meeting I sent out the first Lets start sharing ideas email.. Here are some photos I have collected for organizing my first flip book, here a flipbook or two on the web that you can use for a base and alter.. I have asked to borrow an awesome flipbook from someone I know.. Then also on project.. In a casual conversation about 4 of us discussed the LNT, what do the rest of you guys think about this idea? One concern is if we can tie it into Varsity.. Some of you are LDS, do you have any insight into what in Varsity would use LNT? Do you have any other ideas for projects you want to kick around.. ETC.. Then one TG was absent, one left early so I kindof summed up the staff meeting for them. Responses back were Thanks.. I was there.. (absent TG) Sorry I had to back out wont be a TG.. and one guy who asked for a little help as he was not familure with searching the web for the flipbooks, and figured out he needed to get ppt, which his son is helping him with. This is when I asked you guys about LNT and Varsity.. When picking up the flipbook I said something to the past TG.. She said that was her group too.. She would email and get no response which frustrated her, but recommended that I keep emailing.. I did a few updates to this.. TG so & so informed me he had to back out, so there are only 7 of us.. I was able to secure the flipbook from the other TG, needs to be scanned it though.. (NOTHING).. I then met the ASM of TG at a Council meeting (He asked to be cc'd on our email discussions). He thanked me for sending out the emails, I asked him about the responses.. His response was "Yeah that's typical.". Yesterday morning I again sent out a summary of the info I got from you on LNT & Varsity.. And concluded that I was warming to this idea, as I was myself learning new things, and I thought we could put on a real eye-opening presentation.. Concluded with What do you think? (Nothing, not one response) Ok it is only 24 hours since that email.. Maybe all my TGs left the first staff meeting and went on week long vacations.. Maybe I am too charged up and wanting to get going and get organized, and my fellow TGs are all procrastinators who wait until midnight of the day they have to present before they say Wow, maybe I should put something together.".).. All I know is I am not feeling the loving I am at a crossroads of do I continue to email with what I am doing and the progress I am making, or settle into the group not make noise and become a fellow deadhead?.. Honestly during the course they talked and laughed with me.. Seemed interested in discussing and picking a topic, and offering workshops we could meet to work on the project etc.. In person they all seemed excited and charged up as I was.. I didn't leave the place feeling I was disliked, or not fitting in.. Now with the responses I get from my emails I am sort of feeling "Not accepted" by the group.. Is my writing style something that puts people off? Am I too over-bearing, or bossy.. (again, in normal conversation, not on topics that have me on my soapbox)..

SP - I think I rmember a back post of yours asking this forum (as well as those who attend your RT) what topics THEY would like to see covered.. I could never work the search on this site, maybe someone else who knows how to work it could search for and find that for E92.. I remember it filled with some interesting ideas for topics.. While I have heard others say they like the search on this forum.. For me the search pulls up way too much stuff (like 50 pages worth) in no sorted order, so that things from june 1980 is mixed with things form Sept 2011, and you can't ever focus on the estimated time frame that it ran in..(hopefully our new forum will have a better search mechanism )

Well that would be interesting Horizon, so you mean if I am a business man who is a bigot, I would have to post on my front door of business "We don't cater to Homos, darkies or Spics".. So that not only do those people not frequent my place of business, but also those who don't want to do business with a bigot will know that this is not a person or business that they want to do business with.. If they don't post the sign, or reveal their policy over the phone when asked, then it would be illegal for them to refuse service to anyone who offends their moral conscience.

Seattle wrote Will the Spanish Wood Badge course be set up to accommodate LDS Scouters who can't participate on Saturdays? Ha! Ha! SP... My ONLY Spanish is "No Hablo Espanol!!!"... I don't think it will get me very far as a staff member if they made are WB (altered for LDS) but also to accomidate those who have other annual difficulties with our Fall WB (like a major Jewish holiday falls in our Fall WB..) Also Highland Games, as well as people who get consumed just getting their Pack restarted after a Fall recruitment or Summer break (on & on, "this WB is for you" reasons for our special WB..) But the LDS is what broke up the days into a weird mix. If anything, since we are in NH we might be more apt to hold it in French for our French-Candian neighbors..) But so far we haven't hit to much of a pocket of foreign speaking anything.. Maybe not interested in Scouting?? But, even in public places it's odd to get foreign speaking people around you..

scoutingagain states I'm with Pack. Let the market work it out. If the wedding hall owner doesn't want to provide services to a gay couple fine. I'm fairly confident in any state where such a union is legally recognized there will be a hall that will gladly take their business. Same with flowers, caterers, music etc. So are you for the approval of a Bill in the State that lets them say "No, because you are abhorrant to my sense-abilities..".. Or do you feel that they can find a resonable excuse as to why they can not work the party and say "No" with a socially acceptable white lie?? Beavah - You may be right that that was a fear of the Catholic church when Obama stepped into office.. Still two wrongs don't make a right. You can't stop the turning of public opinion by trying to railroad through a discrimanatory Bill first.. Bills are changed and amended all the time.. You get no security with a bill that is against public opinion.. In fact you make that bill a target to not only throw out after the next election, but to amend to something you would truly dislike. It is much more likely that you will be left alone with your views if you don't try to stong-arm everyone else into having to follow your rules, when they think different.

Eagle732 says I know we're not suppose to discuss the three Gs here We can talk about Girls, Gas and Grass??? How come?? (Well I must admit my Grass is covered in snow, my husband stinks when he has too much Gas, and my son has gone Girl-crazy..) So what's new with you? Seriously - what was the link? It seems Penn & Teller are against the BSA, but I didn't see that they ran a troop AND was against the BSA.

I agree, emb021 you might be as right as rain, but you twisted my mind up in alot of knots trying to follow that.. Eagle92 - may not be right.. But it is something that made sense! Wheew and I thought Venture Patrols & Venturing Crews where confusing!

So I was originally correct before I got to thinking about what made churches except interracial marriages.. A state bill or an amendment to the constitution due to someone fearing that without it their religion will be forced to accept same-sex marriages is unfounded.. All the bill does is try to force the entire public to accept (or at lAeast abide by, if the public does not accept) their beliefs rather then allow the public to freely follow their own beliefs. I also agree a bill is unneccessary to get a buisness out of servicing a client they do not want to give service to.. The bill only would give them the right to turn down the buisness and be brutally and hurtfully blunt about the reason when doing so.. Rather then making up a socially acceptable lie..

I have been mulling over whate BasementDweller said.. It makes sense, I mean writing Graffiti on a Brick wall certainly leave a trace (if not a splash).. But, it is still a different way then how I looked a LNT. Always knew that the two were related, but always looked at LNT as conservation which is more outdoor-sy.. Sort of like cleaning up trash on the roadside is a service project, while picking up trash hiking in the backwoods is LNT.. Both are picking up trash, but one place is already well touched by humans, where as the other you want it to look like humans had never disturbed the place. But there is a hint of what BD says in the explanation of the outdoor code.. Be considerate in the outdoors I will treat public and private property with respect. I will use low-impact methods of hiking and camping. I always looked over that as public & private lands that you may be hiking on. Not public & private property as in baseball fields and public restrooms.. See old dogs can come around to different viewpoints..

packsaddle - I see it the same as you. But others see it as a different issue.. In that regard, something did change the views some religions held. Well, maybe the churches do have something to fear. After all government intervention did force them to up the age a girl could marry from 12-13, and that the women as well as the man should enter into a marriage willingly and freely.. And their views on the fact the white race was superior to the black race.. I am not surprised if churches did fight the fact that THEY would not marry an interracial couple.. I looked and found articles similar to this one: http://topboost.wordpress.com/2008/11/08/the-legalization-of-interracial-marriage/ But, I did not see if when state legalized interracial marriages, religious views exempted the church from having to preform the marriage.. Or, if there are still churches today with this view, and if they are still allowed to site their beliefs as a reason for not preforming the ceremony.. Did government force religions to accept the law and preform the marriages? Or did they just slowly come around accept the viewpoints of the changing world around them? I honestly don't know my churches views on interratial marriage at the time. I know we had parents of an interratial couple. The couple was visiting and it stirred up alot of wagging tongues in the church, and pity and sympathy for the parents who had to endure such embarrassment.. But, I was too young to know the churches stance on if they accepted (or preformed) interracial marriages..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

eisely states : Of greater concern is the government at any level trying to force religious acceptance of same sex marriage. Rabbis, ministers, imams and priests, and their affiliated religious establishments should have the right to refuse to perform such marriages. I don't see this.. The glorous thing about the seperating church & state is the goverment rarely can force changes to religions, that is why it is so hard to shut down cults that are clearly breaking laws.. The thing is the religions equally can not force their country or state to accept their veiwpoints, and make laws to force everyone in the country/state to accept their viewpoint.

Scoutfish - I never heard there was a movement to create an amendment to the constitution to ban gay marriage! I agree with you.. Part of my reasoning as to once NH passed a bill to make same-sex marriages legal they could not then revoke it due to it being against some religious beliefs.. Not having a (right/privilege) to begin with and not giving it, is a little different then out and out revoking that (right/privileged) to a group of people who had it. Because the ruling was very verbally announced that it was due to some peoples religious views, there was definite proof that church & state was not being separated.. I know someone said it is quite worded to keep them separated, but it definitely was worded that you can't pass laws in favoritism of the current lawmakers personal religion of preference..

Thanks emb021 - I really did not know that. I just have foggy memory of someone once telling me that they earn Varsity Letters and it was sports related. But who it was, and if it was someone passing on bad info due to the fact it was poorly explained to them, I don't know.. Since I have no love of (team) sports, it didn't interest me to go any further with it.. That and the fact that everyone says it is only LDS that use them. (Although I did hear anyone could use them, just no one does.)

I wondered about if you could refuse service already.. My wedding was a wee odd: 1) we choose a photographer who basically was a commercial photographer but did 1 wedding a month to keep his hands in it.. (Our could have been the wedding he said no to, if he had his once a month customer.) 2) We choose a florist who did it as a side job out of her lovely home (well-to-do) had a whole florist shop in her basement.. Did only one wedding a week.. (again, she could have said "no" to us.. 3) Well the cake was from a friend who did cakes as a hobby.. Couldn't really even call her a buisness. 4) Caterer was normal buisness, but I would have not blinked if they said they were already booked or over-booked.. 5) DJ can only do one wedding at a time.. So unless they say they are booked, and you find them home twiddling their thumbs, and can prove their client didn't cancel.. They can say "No".. They just can't say "No, because I don't do same-sex marriages" or whatever else the person may discriminate against be it Jewish weddings or atheist weddings or whatever.. So why do they need a bill for this?

LOL.. Like the "Boat it in, Boat it out".. I was just thinking "no trash in the water", but yours is just perfect! Maybe for Sea Scouts there are choices between more eco-friendly cleaning solutions while swabbing the deck?.. Glad to see Varsity isn't just basketball & baseball.. Great! we CAN do something with this!.. But the LNT for the sports fields are good suggestions too.

Ok.. I may have answered several in this topic, but this is my first ever starting one. About a month ago I made a comment my little state of NH was proposing a bill that revoked a previous bill allowing marriages of homosexuals (which was passed maybe 2 years back.) So I have been waiting to see the results. Thought it was to happen mid Jan. as last I heard they were doing it around the time of our NH primary. But, nothing. Found out today that the proposed bill to revoke the bill was quietly dismissed. Meaning to me that they have figured out that there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.. So now here is a new bill. Which I read today, which is what made me ask what happened to the old bill to revoke the marriages.. They want to pass a bill that would allow people to refuse to provide services such as wedding planner, photography, catering, flowers, cakes etc for same-sex marriages if they have a moral or religious objection. Although I sympathize with the wedding planner/photographer who would have to attend the wedding? Don't know about it being a bill passed on it.. Caterer, No it is not at the wedding but a party after the wedding, and the bill only covers them not catering a wedding not a 25th or 50th anniversary or birthday party of a homosexual.. So deal.. Cakes? flowers? These people just deliver and leave !!! What the?? This I see would soon mushroom into not renting apartments to them, selling them furnature etc.. So can I support a bill allowing only the wedding planner/photographer out of something he doesn't want to do?? Nah!!! Most people I would think would already want to find people who are wanting to do a good job for them.. I am sure there is a list of the "good" people to use for services that are floated around by the gay community. Therefore I would think those who would prefer not to work with homosexuals would rarely be called by them. So what is your opinion of the new proposed bill?? Think our State representatives have alot of time on their hands?

OK weird question.. part of a WB team project. Our project has to touch on all program types (or most, because it doesn't require Sea Scouts) CS, BS, Venturing, Varsity.. My group wants to do LNT.. CS front country LNT.. BS/Venturing - front & back Country.. Varsity..?? I don't know enough about it.. I know it is sports related. But is it all indoor sports or any outdoor sports? LNT on the ski slopes?? Do they every camp around an sport event they go to? While were at it LNT for Sea Scouts, if anyone has any ideas.. We need the 4 but can add in what we want..

Isn't California's official language now Spanish?? Know I heard they did that, but don't know if they flipped it back. I never heard Arnold speaking Spanish (with a German accent??).. Geesh, some of you guys need to get some training in dealing with diversity! You don't know what is funding this program. Most FOS stays local for your camp and professional staff. This could be some generous benefactor donating money, or be coming out of profit from selling you uniform shirts & pinewood derby cars. I have nothing against people from different cultures joining boy scouts, as long as they learn to love scouting for the program it is, and not try to alter it to some other program "Like Soccer" Although we do have that varsity thing which might also be soccer or other "non-scouting-like" sports.

Well for a single book to have two languages maybe rough.. First your paying for the material you would not use, plus depending on the size of the book, may make it thicker.. But there should be nothing wrong with putting out two seperate books each in a different language.. Also for Woodbadge.. Good for you for trying to include the spanish speaking members of the BSA.. As long as does not rid the English speaking members of a Woodbadge within a decent driving distance, it is great to accomidate others.. What sort of thoughts did you want on it?? Except for Spanish, I would imagine this will be the same course, run the same way.. I guess I do not see why anything would need to be changed when a language is changed. I would imagine you will have your movie clips redone in spanish? Or dubbed? or have subtitles?.. Our council is doing something a little unique also.. (And first ever).. We got permission to run a course over 3 weekends "Fri-Sat" each weekend.. Normally they are 6 days straight, or 3 day courses.. This does bring in some questions that might need some re-organizing of the syllabus. We have lost an evening.. The Win-All-You can Game, if played when it should be means we may have some angry participants we do not have the extra day to talk down off the rafters (do we move it or go with it? CD has decided to go with it with a special guy in mind to debrief these guys. This guy does know how to put a good light on it and calmed everyone down quickly last year.) .. We have lost one evening (the one that staff is to stay with participants then pack up the next day. So do we stay a different night? or not camp with them any night?).. They need more time to set and break camp as it will be done 3 times, not 2 times.. as well as some other concerns.. This is being set up this way primarily to accomidate LDS who can not attend Sunday courses.. Our area knows we would not fill a 6 day coursed because it is too much time away from work for many.. So we got Nationals approval to run the course this way..

ScoutNut - sounds like your Eagle Board does not pre-approve Eagle projects, which is causing your confusion.. Mine does and apparently so does Eagle92. Eagle92 - unless those other scouts either got approved when the current EB was not in power, or had some extra tasks that added to their hours. If two scouts did the exact same type of project and were approved by this exact same board, and this scout didn't (and the two scouts are not whatever this kid is that might cause discrimination.).. Well then, the mother might have a case.. Why did the same type of project add up in these Gentlemens heads to 100+ hours for two boys, but not for the third boy?? Inquiring minds want to know.

From what I know the extension should be done BEFORE he turns 18, not after.. It is also better to have reasons beyond the control of the scout.. Since he messed up his first project, that may not help his case.. Even with the EBOR meeting once a month, from what your saying he went to an EBOR was rejected and then there has been weeks of squabbling, not a year of squabbling.. Still only sounds like he got to the board about a month before he turned 18, not a year or 6 months before he turned 18.. Again HE should have known and planned on the EBOR meeting only once a month (especially since it is not his first time around the block). He should have been ready earlier.. Then if the time started running out for bickering, it should have been foreseen that it was eatting up his time to do the project.. The extention should have been sought before he turned 18.. Currently bickering or not, he has turned 18, and never bothered to file for an extension as he started to see that the problem was making it hard to impossible to complete the project.. My personal opinion is that this extention will be hard to get at this time. Even if you have proof that the EBOR was a bunch of fruitcups.. Because there is also proof that this scout was not paying attention to his time frame, and in so doing reached 18. My husband has been involved in a few extensions.. two were granted due to physical problems with the boys.. One was rejected because the boy did not manage his time well. Final approval must come from National, but the District EB had some say in it. I do not know if it was just a recommendation, or if they could choose to send it to Texas or not.. But I do know these extentions starts with a discussion by them. Sounds like the people on this Eagle Board will not be favorable to the extension.

So those of you with Sea Scouts in your district. How does that work? I can imagine it is fine for districts by the ocean, who have enough ships to find trainers to teach the Sea Scout course. But for those who might only have one or two ships in their district. Is that a course run at Council, or maybe even regional?? (I think we only have a handful of Ships in our whole Council..) I mean to hold a good training you need trainers who know the program.. For may places I would think it would be hard to find enough trainers, out of your small pool of ships..

Thanks Abel, yeah part of the reason for it's design is so BSA can turn a blind eye to their own policies in BSA.. But I was surprised they stopped at age 20.. Maybe I am getting them mixed up with a second program also called Learning for Life which is college based, and you can take what you learned in life and apply it to reduce the number of courses you need to take at this college in order to earn a degree.. I know that is for the older generations who have been out in the working world, and are returning to college later in life. They must be two seperate organizations.

Well I am much more for this in order it reach the Hispanic population, and their family oriented culture, then I am for BSA Soccer, and "BSA is not about the outdoors and getting kids out in tents", in the comment by CSE Mazzuca, in attempt to change BSA to cater to Hispanic families, and the assumption that they do not want to do the outdoor stuff that American boys do.. Yeah, makes me curious about LFL too.. All I know about it is that is where they now have placed the Explorer group, and it allows them to be more open to homosexuals and (I believe) athiests.. So although LFL is just that I always think of the Venture age youth.. I would imagine they do though have programs for younger & older.. But, can signing up fo LFL allow you to work on the cub scout ranks??? Hmmm... I think only if LFL has a way to award them officially.. Because as a cub scout you can not earn boy scout rank. But, then as a Venturer you can earn BS rank, but only in the condition that you are a boy, and have made it to First Class in a BS troop, and if no longer part of a BS troop, then the Venturing unit awards you the ranks, not the BS unit. She though is registered, which I guess would take care of any worries about being insured while out at a BSA event..

Well, thanks for telling me there was a new "Training Times" I think I looked about a week or week and a half ago.. It was a little easier when they put them out once a month. Have not yet seen the new "Guide to Leader Training".. I would imagine that some lucky group got to look it over as a beta site. But it was not us. So "Fast Start" & This is Scouting are no longer required.. Well "Fast Start" hasn't been being tracked for a while. At least their reports of "Trained" and "Untrained" did not track those to calculate who was trained. Before it was on-line training, units would just pass around a VCR or DVD of it, but no one contacted Council to have it marked they took it.