moosetracker

Ahhh.. I did not say that the liberal approach was the wrong side of the fence to sit on.. Just basically that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.. I still believe if you are going to preach diversity awareness and diversity acceptance, then you should walk the walk. BSA preaches but does not follow their own teachings. I am just saying their is no place to pull these kids out of the war of who is right and who is wrong.. There is nothing that any youth organization can do that will be seen as a correct path to take by the two sides of the debate. They should not be the pawns in our battle, as they are. The right choice would really be to create a policy that took the kids out of the limelight of being on the wrong side of the fence for either one side or the other. But there is no such policy that can be formed to do that.. Lucky for me and my liberal senses, my child might have been raised with BSA teachings, but because he learned to how to accept and work with the diversity that BSA did allow, he was never taught by BSA that diversity acceptance ends with this group and that group. So when he was old enough to learn their discriminating practices, he was able to see it as a bad policy.. Strangly because of BSA teachings that their discrimination was not morally correct.. So BSA will talk the right talk, but not walk the right walk.. So is that a middle ground? Raise our kids with the "Do what I say, not what I do".. And when they are old enough to make changes, and run the government, the changes will come?

Well if a Pack Trainer is interested, I would be happy to allow them to staff a district training once or twice, then if I found them capable, would have no problem with them doing their own private district training with my blessings. If a pack trainer is interested in doing district training, then they should have an interest in learning the right way to do the training. It would also then relax my fears that the training was being rubber stamped by someone doing their own thing. Taking EDGE training should not mean having a license to do whatever training you want, district / council level etc.. Just like I would never dream of taking upon myself to run a council level training without a nod from the Council Training chair.. I don't think in this case that was what I had though. I more had a father, who was trying to find an easy out for his son. If the pack had a Pack Trainer, they were going to be told they had the responsibility to do the district training. If the Pack did not have a Pack Trainer, they were going to be requested to get one pronto..

EagleDad, Doesn't sound too middle of the road to me.. They were the place the conservatives flocked to when Girls Scouts became too Liberal.. They lost members when they themselves became liberal.. That was a group that was on one playing field, and jumped to the other playing field. But not a group that both conservatives & Liberals agreed at the same time was running things just fine.. emb021 - Too many letters in those abbreviations.. No, seriously thanks for the correction.

So I ask you where is the middle road, so that we can just blend in and not be models for liberal or Conservative? Accept Gays, but not Atheists.. or vica-versa? Accept half the gays only or only half the Atheists that want to join? I am sure the GSA is not saying Everyone get an abortion, but rather it is your body, you decide what is right for you, here is what is available.. So if that is Liberal and conservative is to say "You can't do anything, but have babies, or be a virgin".. Then what is middle of the road between the two views. On Gays, Atheists, and womens health I side with the Liberal veiws of GSA.. On who has a better program for the youth, I side with BSA.. Problem is there is no middle ground.. Pick a side, and the other half of the world will hate you.

Thanks Basement, I would not want a cub scout leader doing den chief training.......Most of the folks at that level have little clue as to how or what a den chief is supposed to do.......Den Chiefs are not go-fers Well, when I think of CS Adult leaders, as an unknown entity. I do kind-of have this sterotype of clueless. But, I know it is wrong about them at least in the majority of circles I run in (this forum, district, council, roundtable). Even those who come to training, I never have walked away with this feeling of what planet did they just decend from?? From what I see they are very knowedgable, well trained, or (if not) for the most part not people I would see run off doing something without asking and getting good info. Rather they are seeking help and training and asking intelligent questions. So I have no base to set my stero-type on.. Except for the image of Tiger parents with the deer-in-headlights, clueless stare.. And they fact that I never ever see those who are pack trainers of Packs in order to figure out who they are. Which means I for some reason place them with the doe-eyed cub parents rather then the intellegent CS Leaders I meet. The person I was discussing this with was not a Pack Trainer, but the Father of a son who was a Den Cheif.. Luckily, the wife was in the room too, and just took husband aside and said "No, Dear.. Son will go to the District training." that ended the conversation. Which was good, because I had this flashback of the Pack trainer on the video is to do some sort of training with the Den Chief, so I was not arguing very strongly. Strange I don't see listed the debate topics.. But one of the leader books does have a group of them, all organized under the title of "Pack Trainer".. Well, I am glad I can argue a little more confidently on this topic.

I Know they have this area in the workbook, that they can take the committee or Adult leaders through discussion groups and get them aware of, or thinking about.. But I once ran into a Pack Trainer who thought he had a license to teach OWLS.. Last night someone was argueing with me that the Pack Trainer could do the Den Cheif training.. All I could say was it was a district level training, but I was a little unsure of this one, as I think it Den Cheif training is mentioned in the Pack Trainer video.. But, the District level course has some interaction that just won't work with one scout being trained. So is it the official Den Cheif training that District does, or a startup introduction, and this is what our Pack expects from it's Den Chiefs to allow them to start but is not the official training that they get the Den Cheif award for completing along with other things that must be accomplished like being DC for a year, and other things that are similar to merit badge requirements. I just am leery of Pack Trainers doing District training, when I as District Trainer have not met most of them, and have no clue if they are following the syllabus, or doing their own thing, or just signing cards a person is trained. I think in the capacity of helping the new adult Leaders get up to speed, and getting the adult leader to think about and discuss and prepare for possible issues before they occur, is also great.. I guess the Council gives me the right to do training in the district, and just hopes and trusts I am doing it right.. Are Pack trainers allowed to do District training, and I am suppose to also just hope and trust they are doing it right?

Well those age appropriate videos ??"A time to Tell"?? on what to look out for in preditors are supposed to be played once a year to your unit.. Who does that?? I know we did it once, with our troop.. And I don't know why I had it (maybe when son was Den Cheif, but except for being taxi I don't remember doing much when he was) Anyway, after playing for troop, I played the age appropriate one for a Den.. I should have looked at it first. The parents all gave consent and watched with the child, but none of us viewed the tape. The troop age one was alot less scary then the Pack one.. Maybe they thought hints were good enough for older boys, but the younger ones needed every detail imaginable? Well except for that once, and if son was Den Chief that had to be about 10 years back we never did it for troop again. Don't know about Pack.. But, I do think that statue of limitation is fine for accusation.. I lean toward, not having a statue if there is DNA evidence, and a match comes in 20 years later.. But, I have only heard the pros for waving the statue for DNA.. I could be swayed to the other side if someone has a good arguement against it.

If this is not a recent development, then our council pays for the Eagle kit. I have been out of a troop now for 3 years, but we did one just before I left.. The Eagle kit still came with the card and certificate. Then our Troop bought the frame for the certificate that has a shadow box for the pin, and we bought the 2nd pin. I know it all comes in one big envelope to the SM house, so I always thought the whole sha-bang was from council. Perhaps it goes to council. Council adds the Eagle kit then the package comes from Council?? Either that or the kit has recently been excluded from the kit. Weird thing was I noted with my son, that the Eagle kit had a nicer badge in it then the single badge replacement I bought for his kit.. It seemed heavier medal, and the mold was more detailed. (My son was I think the second Eagle after a 10 year lull. We bought the frame as a parent gift, before knowing that is what the troop wanted to do as tradition.) Our troop also retires the flag that flew with the troop, and gives it to the scout. But the scout if he wants has to get the triangle shadow box for it. Once we had 2 boys have their ceremony together, and had to switch flags so both flags got flown before giving to the boys.

Today at work, the anti-virus stopped a redirect. At home this weekend, I did get a redirect of a naked young women sitting on a toliet.. She had her arms covering things, but it was a video which I can imagine showed more if played.. No thank you.. Not quite scouting material. But speed is a little bit better today then over the weekend.

Sorry - Packsaddle, didn't know you were a koolaid representative. It is just they represent the overall name, like Kleenex for tissue and Coke for cola.. How about Flavor drink mix. OGE - I would imagine when you wrote that you were thinking governments involvement with marriage, but they pass those laws while not in the temple.. All I got was an image of Jesus throwing all the preists & Bishops out of the temple on their butts for having political rallies rather then Sunday service within the temples. Sorry, it just was the first image that came to mind!

Well if the CD has had issues with others besides you, it may not be the two of you clashing personally.. But, you never know this new PD, may have found some common bond with the CD.. He may make butter out of an old sows ear where you couldn't.. My husband has a route, anyone else on the route hates this one guy. More then one other person has had immediate and instant dislike over his attitude, or things he said. Yet he just purrs around my husband.. Everyone else is in wonder.. Also (another hubby story). My husband worked at a company and was the greatest thing since sliced bread.. Got a new DE, who wanted him gone, for who knows why. But, for 1.5 years he couldn't do anything right and it wore on his self-confidence, so he was making mistakes because he feared action of any sort. Thinks were very dark as the psyhological games did severe damage to him. Then the DE left, in comes the new DE. He pulls out this long nasty list of everything wrong with my husband given to him by the exiting DE.. In front of my husband he ripped it up, and said "I do not want to come in with pre-conceved notions" you start with a fresh slate.. He watched, he analysed and in 6 months my husband was considered the best employee of the area again.. When I think of that story, I have to thank that DE for giving back my husbands self-confidence, had he not who knows where my husband would be today. You have made your warnings known. What you do not want to due is sabbatoge a possible rare working relationship between the two.. (maybe it is, maybe it isn't).. But if it is, that would be nice. It means that if this CD acts out of place at other functions you know who to seek out to calm the nasty beast.. Wish him well.. If he finds out you were right, he will probably pick up on the warning signs earlier rather then later due to your warning..

Packsaddle - Is that what I'm smelling? As fragrant as an outhouse on a warm summers day, when the wind is blowing in our direction.. BadenP - I took Packsaddles quote to mean, we keep raking over the same patch of grass, no one ever changing views.. Round & round we go.. Rooster - Perhaps - but the overzealousness and fanaticism runs both ways. Sometimes folks claim to represent a faith, but there is little evidence in their words to suggest that they actually believe their own church's doctrine - much less the words of the Bible or other historical documents from which their faith is supposedly based. When people question their faith, I always took that as an intellegent man, who may listen then make up their own mind as to what makes sense, and what does not. I know many people who use their faith ale carte.. The stricter, and tighter their religion trys to hold them, them more ale carte they become.. I prefer a person who can take their religion with a grain of salt. I find them to not be so fanatical. Someone who will not go off to a holy war based on the say so of their spiritual leaders. Someone who is fine that everyone does not believe the same thing they do.. Someone who can see that the bible can be interpreted thousands of different ways.. Normally I don't find these people to be a fanatic.. It's the ones that seem to feel that there religion is perfect and will not question a single thing about what they are expected to believe.. Add to that mix someone who is trying to convert everyone to see the world through their rose colored glasses, because those are the only glasses the world should be viewed from. Well then you have a fanatic.. The real scary ones use bombs to get their their point across. The wordy ones you just need to avoid conversation with, and vote against during elections and polls when their veiwpoint is skewed, hoping not too many have drunk the same kool-Aid..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I've seen that on a few. Since I do email from an internet service rather then outlook, I have no stamped signature.. First letter might get my full name with "xxxxxx district Training Chair".. Second maybe my full name.. Third you are lucky to get my first name..

Congradulations! Sounds like not only are you shaping the crew up to run themselves, but you two senior crew members are also becoming awsome at guiding and stepping back. Which is awesome. Now SM call that being able to sit back in their campchair with their cup of coffee and do nothing. What do the Adult leadership (?Skipper?) do?.. Sit in deckchairs, tanning?

Whoo-Hoo.. I knew there was a reason I liked you.. Even as rough around the edges as you are.. BSA knows that we are to develop our scouts moral compass, and self-confidence so they can make their own decisions and stand up for their convictions.. GOOD churches also should be developing their parishioners personal moral compasses, to be able to make your own decisions.. Anyone who feels that it is the churches place to make their decisions for them, have a church with too much control over them.. Something is out of sync!!

When my son just started out as a tiger cub and for a few years after. We got our popcorn and candy fundraiser boxes.. Sold them door to door at the same time. We thought both came from council being newbies.. It was years later that it dawned on me the candybars were and add-on by the Pack. And selling them together so some went for the $1 candybar over the $5(or up) box of popcorn would be frowned upon by council. It stopped a few years in.. Don't know if the pack stopped it, or Council did.

OGE: Seeing that you don't think it odd or wrong to hold your political rallies over the coffin of the deceased at his funeral and ignore giving the dead a proper Eulogy.. Maybe I shouldn't discount that as sarcasm.. So you really consider this operation as usual for the Catholic Church?.. Not a single one of you consider this priest out of line.. WOW !!! Papadaddy - Just forcing companies to carry medical insurance for all their employees may cause those 3 things to happen.. Does not matter, what is defined by a governmental package.. Putting it on the shoulders of the Employeers in this economy is a risky thing to do. Also my question on the whole thing is who will support the unemployed? The unemployed can not afford their own insurance, so making it manditory for a person who can't keep a house over their head, or food on the table is unreasonable. Yet the uninsured is one of reasons why the costs are so high. This plan will not solve that problem. But, having it totally handled by the government would just get bogged down in alot of political retoric, mismanagement and people finding ways to cheat the system.. We will see our $10 aspirin pill go up to being $100 per pill.. So not handeled by the employers, nor the government.. Manditory Insurance for each individual will not work for those who struggle to pay their bills for basic needs, which is currently a much larger percentage then 10 years back.. So what is the solution? Maybe we should just shut down the hospitals and all return back to a life expentancy of 18 to 25, if we live past childhood..

perdidochas - Doesn't matter.. Wrong place, wrong time, and totally insensitive to the friends and relatives of the deceased.. As for Sunday service all I can say is, I would not want my priest to be a politician. There is something very oximoron about the whole idea.. My political views should not be defined by my spiritual guide.. He may shape my veiwpoint on who has the same beliefs or values as I do.. But, my spiritual guide should not tell me how to vote, or who to vote for, or what I should or should not protest. He can tell me that I should not go down that path of sin and why.. End of subject. I think I am becoming aware of why people did fear a Catholic president.. About 2 weeks ago I did not understand that.

Has there been any other state that stated the poll vote unconstitutional besides California?.. I am not sure, Maybe there is. That is the only the only one I heard of. The moral of the story I got from that one is, don't giveth, then taketh away.. Because if you do, you are now taking away rights that they had.. From what I understand California tried to pass a law prohibiting the government from recognizing same-sex marriages.. This is barring a group of people, and it is not easy to change a law on the books that allow a group of people to do something to then be null and void without creating a law that revokes the rights of a group of people. Now if you never had a law on the books defining marriage, and create something stating "Marriage is a union between a man and a women".. Would that be also judge unconstitutional.. You have not named the group of people you are discriminating against. Just defining marriage. It is all in the wording.. NH if it tries to repeal it's policy that allows same-sex marriages will have the same costly and most likely loosing battle.. perdidochas - if you want to debate the over-all Obama-plan.. the whole right of government to define the Insurance plan employers must supply.. That is a different debate. It is one I haven't figured out if I am for or against. All I know is we need something. I am clueless as to what we need, or if Obama's idea is on the right track or wrong one.. But contraceptives being on or off the Obama plan would not change my attitude one way or the other..

Well something seems unbalanced between the term, "Seperation of Church & State" when the Catholic higer ups, tell all the Catholic priest that for the next week, they must deliver this political retoric to all services.. And they do so not only at their Sunday Church services.. But at funnerals, where the people are there to morn and remember their dearly departed. Instead they get "Too Bad for Bob.. Now onto more pressing matters.. Boycott the Government.." Funnerals are attended by people who are not of your faith, outsiders who come for one thing, to pay their respects. I am so glad I did not attend the funneral.. My husband and his brother were pissed, and they are catholic. I don't know if wedding ceremonies were trumped too.. "Both of you say I do.. Your now married..Now onto more pressing matters.. Boycott the Government.." What is "Seperation of Church & State" only to apply to the Government? Why do churches feel they can use their pulpits for their political agenda? I know my father, and the churches that I attended growning up, did use current news to bring home a message of sin in the modern world. I am sure it got tangled with their religious veiws. I would expect a catholic sermon might address either abortion, or same-sex marriage and why this is a sin of the modern world, and how steer clear of that sin.. But, I would not expect it to go so far as to decide that a sermon of those topics are appropriate for a funeral, nor would I expect a sermon to go so far as to demand that everyone Boycott the government on their behalf..

Basement - That's what I thought I recalled, but was not quite sure. My memory, does get rusty. I didn't want to miss state it, seeing you were felt I did not recall accurately your reaction to the uniform inspection..

Well I think Basement probably felt that worring about uniforms was probably the least of his worries.. Or like me did not know that uniforms would even be a UC duty.. But, yes, the nicest possible outlook on the event was that the UC needed retraining.. I don't know if Basement had a history with this UC or not.. But, I do get a sense that a good relationship between UC and CM had yet to form.. Which should have been the first order of buisness.. Then seeing if he could offer friendly, helpful suggestions the second.. But, instead without these two things esablished he showed up for a "surprise" military style uniform inspection.. Sort of like I am running things, and you better follow my orders, style.. Not the best way to introduce yourself (or continue an attempting to form a good relationship) Policy sounds that the UC should be invited by the unit, and the unit should set the tone for how the Uniform inspection will be conducted (if at all).. The UC should be respectful of whatever the unit decides.. If not invited, he can do the personal eyeball check, and friendly helpful comment to CM, but that should be it.

Eagle92 wrote "..In these parts, the uniform inspection is done with the Boy Scouts only, at the district camporee..." That did restore a past nugget of memory.. Our CS did have uniform inspection as part of their Chuckwagon event day.. But I think it was just whoever they chose to run that station. Not a UC, although it just may have happened to be a UC. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying a UC can't do the uniform inspection, if a pack would like that. It is just something I would think would be rare for a pack to do.. I was shocked that this was not only listed as a responsibility of theirs, but it was considered so important as to make it one out of the 9 questions to ask during a mini quiz.

We don't even get the paperclip.. My son picked up the one for the pack with other papers, and started writing notes on the back of it last month.. "Ooops!" Sorry Basement.. Let me rephrase.. Blew a gasket with us on this forum about it.. Don't know about you causing a scene or anything, but I had thought this was the time you asked the Commissioner not to return "like ever".. But maybe I am wrong.. But, I do know you were not a happy camper about the situation when you reported about it on the forum.

I only heard about this with Basement complaining of a Commissioner who walked in and tried to do a uniform inspection to their pack.. Causing upset parents & cubs.. And Basement blowing a gasket or two. So I am redoing the CS Committee specific training. I get to a quiz and this question I am stumped with.. Who schedules a periodic uniform inspection with the Commissioner.. "What! No one!, If you want to do that, it is done by the CM..".. (Well that is my answer, but I don't even have that choice. I get 4 choices.. None, can I think of as doing this call. A) Outdoor Chair B) Secretary C) Membership & Rechartering Chair D) Committee Chair (So I guessed Secretary as it was scheduling and appointment.. Next guess would have been Committee Chair as the other two positions have nothing to do with overseeing of uniforms.) Wrong! Membership & Rechartering Chair.. First of all, who has that many on the committee that they have the luxury of having this position? Second off, what does this have to do with uniforms? Not to mention the original question of why would the Commissioner have to be called in to do a uniform inspection? What do you not trust the CM to accurately perform one? Does this needed to be recorded for the benifit of someone at District? I know on our District Committee night, our District commissioner never reported on the annual uniform inspection results. What is the purpose of this whole process?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)