moosetracker

I don't know of anyone who does that.. They don't ask it of my husband/son.. I don;t get the WB question (although, maybe someone curious might look for the beads and skip the question.).. I am unsure what the first questions might be, do we have popular ones in this counsil? Maybe... What position you hold in scouting? What town is your unit located in? Why did you become an adult leader? What ages are your son(s)?What rank is your son(s)? (the last two only if the persons age has them look like an age to be a parent, as some of us have aged out of that question..) I might ask if their son made Eagle to the older crowd.. Well those might be some of mine if the introduction is not followed by the scouter asking me some sort of question about district training, and I have to come up with "small talk".

Is this a game where were suppose to only name one and pass it to someone else, because there are tons of animals used.. Ok.. my one animal. Bear

Sorry, if what I said is not fact.. I am long removed from Cub Scouting, my son being 21. but I did walk into a CS Specific talk and that was a direct quote I heard from one of the people in the Den Leader breakout sessions.

Wow watching the video it seems like a jumble of different songs and tunes and they do not all fit together (could also be that those singers were not the best). I have heard the tune for the stretch of "Have you ever seen..." Some popular childrens song.. I think dealing with band instruments if my memories serves me right.. The rest of those tunes never even heard with there real versions. NO no one in our council has EVER.. Ever.. used it.. (Thankfully, because I think our singing is no better then the people on the video). At least not with anything that I have ever attended.

I would go with others suggestions. The short sweet stuff, can be added or not if needed. Adding to the service patrols, means it is something that must be done daily, whether you need to or not.. I agree with the others though, I wouldn't award the stragglers.. Perhaps have a sit down with your SM.. Just because this is his view now, doesn't mean that your can't have a heart-to-heart to discuss the negatives.. Perhaps change his mind, or come to a compromise of giving them only 5 minutes but there is a cut-off of "We can wait no longer".. Maybe we do things differently. We have breakfast, and then the opening ceremony. The stragglers wander into breakfast and may have to wolf it down, but all are ready to be on the field for opening ceremonies. Sounds like I am lucky not to even know what the announcement song is.. What is it? Why is it so disliked?

Wow! Your a tough Sarge type of helicopter parent, aren't you.. Well, I will admit this scout is a little long in the tooth for any helicopter parent to be hovering over still. Also your are right, a good helicopter parent should have looked over the MB well before the scout started it.. But if the push to get the scout to over-acheive is the only thing that helicopter parents do.. What labels should be given to those who hover over the child to make sure the road to success is as easy as possible. The parents who not only want the MBs done by 13-14 but the whole Eagle rank, because leading others is only required for a few months during 1st class, Star, Life (and it were not for those darn waiting periods thier son could be done much earlier).. The parents who want to figure out how to get around camping requirements without having son really have to sleep in a tent.. I guess you are right my son as this type of parent failed here also. He should have not only known the requirements, but been happy with the report one, because he (as parent) could have done the report for the son, so son wasn't bothered by it. If the MB requires discussion, then the parent comes to the session, and tries to bud in and do the discussion with MBC rather then scout.. Most likely this parent also tried to make the initial contact with the MBC and anything else that might slow down or hinder the quick progress of son getting his Eagle. If these parents are not in the helicopter camp.. Then what title do we give these parents? Forgive me, I did not know the official helicopter Parent league had to be a approved and register under strict code of conduct..

3 is probably good, I wouldn't push more then 4.. Exchange of the positions does take time, fun when kept to a minimum.. Like Basement says, you can turn people off if it goes on for two long.. Get in, get out.. Get on with the more serious matters at hand.. You just want enough so that each patrol is called into service at least twice during the course.. But lugging around the paraphanilia can get old too if you get charged with a new item every day. How often have you been on staff?.. I ask because I guess our council does things oddly, our 8 troop guides and possibly our scribes are the new staff members. The other staff members are the wise old elders to the course. I hear that most have the Troop Guides as the wise old elders, everyone else is new, except for the Course Director.. Seems odd to me.. For me the TG are like the older boys of the troop, knowing more then the new recruits but still in need of guidence. But, it seems it would be weird to be the ASM of Troop guides resposible to direct the Troop Guides while all the Troop guides are seasoned staffers and you are sort of new to the whole thing. Or ASM of Equipment when who needs to be 10 steps ahead of everyone when you don't have a sound idea of what comes next.

I thought those things were kind of traditional of all WB courses.. Sort of like the patrol names. as stated. Weather Patrol - weather rock stays in feild they get an umbrella to embellish. Service Patrol - Shovel to embellish. (the buffalos love the shovel) (they may be asked to move tables or something during the day..) Program patrol - Gets the Kudu horn which they need to blow into.. (we have different mouthpieces until we can re-sanatize mouthpieces. (Lunchtime is good for a few skits or songs from the service patrol) (I thought we had a fourth one, but just looked at a Gazette.. We only have three.. A reason I can't remember what the 4th one was).

I agree 90%.. I just also have seen some sad cases, boys who did not grow up with a father having no idea what a father figure is.. I prompt them to look at their scout leaders and find some positive aspects about them, they think they might emulate if they become a father.. Boys who have never done a chore in their lives, they simply are not expected to. After the three months I am sure they got to sit on thier thrones once more.. For most it is an easy badge, for some though it has it's challenges. Now I do agree with some on a different thread where the badge shouldn't depend on the dysfunctional family, who will never do a project together.. Or will not sit down to a family meeting. Perhaps those should be rolled into a choice of a, b or c.. Some choices dependent on family involvement, but at least one choice that the scout can do without the support of family members. It is sad that their are kids in such disfunctional families, but it is the sign of the times, and we shouldn't punish the scout for it.. I heard similar stories with cub scouts, for example to advance in rank they need a library card. If the library in their town does not allow the child to get one without a parents signature, and the parent will do nothing to help the child, they can't get the rank.

Nope.. It is mostly women that I know. But no one states that a man can't sign up. I guess men don't look at it as a man-ly, man type of MB..

So son agrees to pay Mom $100... You heard it here folks.. Well we both were at fault for certain things.. So I guess you pay me $100, I'll pay you $100 and we both end up flat out broke.

If this is a concern of his, this could be a question he raises with the MBC on the intial phone call while finding a MBC.. Have him ask how much detail from the family meeting they will expect from him. If the MBC does not state that they see the family information as private to the family, and will just be asking general questions to determine how the overall meeting went, then he can thank the person for their time, but state he is looking for an MBC that respects the privacy of the family, and move on to contact a different MBC.

On reflection, yes.. I probably should have said something, but you left with the scout.. And again, I really figured more people would call me out on not controling the situation better, as I was the one in charge. The only reason it got as far as it did was because, I did not call a stop to it. As for the scout saying anything about an IEP.. I did not catch it, perhaps someone else was talking at the same time?.. Because had he said that I would have had to ask what an IEP was.. Sorry, I am not a teacher or health professional.. IEP doesn't mean much unless utilized around other context that would have me figure out it is what peopel used to reference as "being coded". I would have also questioned why he chose to use the Worksheet and just write all his answers down rather then just come for a discussion if his writing ability was that much of a challenge. Well even coded, it would have to be severe problems to have me change from written to verbal. I just don't expect a great report from someone with writing problems. He showed none in what he wrote for me.. It did not take him a absurd amount of time to write it.. And it was so complete, I really did not have to discuss or clearify what was written. If he has an issue, it was not noticable in what he produced for me. If it was a small challange then that is fine, a challenge in a merit badge is not a bad thing.. It has been discussed on these forums before when you alter things and when you do not.. Normal concensis is it is not altered unless the disability is severe.. Have the scout rise to the challenge. If writing was a challenge for this scout, he rose to the occasion beautifully.

Oh.. That, yes that is a family meeting.. With the family meeting the counsilor should not get into the nitty-gritty of what the family talked about. Alot of what is discussed is going to be personal to the family buisness, the MBC has no right to nose in. Did you have your family meeting? Did you follow the guidelines suggested? Did you discuss the topics listed? Is a family meeting something new for your family or does your family do meetings similar to this normally? This is about as detailed as they should get. So the question really is how comfortable will the scout be discussing how to make resposible decisions dealing with sex in a family meeting. Which will need to be approached delicately if he has younger siblings. But it is up to the family to judge how to do so in a way that stays on a comfortable footing. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

ScoutNut they were providing the buffer for no one-on-one, not the two-deep leadership. They were the buddy, or the parent, or other leader.. Sorry MIB, others did see it more negitively then I.. I was slightly miffed by it, but as stated, it was up to me to maintain the order at the session, state it had gotten out of hand, it was up to me to have told you guys to move to the other room. I did neither, so in that sense the fault rests with me. As I stated it did start out as humorous, it just went on too long, and became less so. Nor did I state you were seriously trying to get me fired. Just get your father to agree with you and possibly tell me I had to do the Merit badge per how the scout interprets it rather then how I interpret it.. The main question was if you were right or not, to insist I take the interpretation of the scout. The answer is, it is up to the MBC to interpret the way they see it, and my interpretation was not out of line.. It only would have been had I interpreted it to mean he do a 10 page essay typed. The scout is very intelligent, He handed me everything else on a worksheet as if he prefered to write rather then discuss. What he had handed me in writing was very intelligently written (seemed a little too intelligent) but when I had him verbalize on the points through discussion I found he talked as analytically as he wrote.. His report, though short, was not something that made me question his writing ability. Had it, I would have asked, and been fine with an explanation of his disability. Again sorry, for the thing making you look negative on the forum. Just except we all make mistakes.. This one just started out light and humorous, and snowballed into one, due to my not maintaining control of the situation.

Sorry, I do the family life. I don't see where sex is a required topic for the discussion on fatherhood.. I mean, we don't go into the birds and the bees, or where do babies come from. It is more a discussion of how you are responsible for supporting, nuturing, guideing and loving your children.. I guess a scout could bring up the subject, but it has never happened, and I don't see in the requirements a reason for me to force the subject. That being said, any guy can sign up. All are welcome.

LOL Lisabob, that is exactly what would happen.

Calico - I trying to figure out where you got the info on the CC not signing something. The original MBC signed nothing. And that was only mentioned by way of making clear, I did not force this scout to start over, when half the MB was completed with an different MBC.. It was more that, although he started with a different MBC, so I did not have the opportunity to do my pre-meeting discussion, where I over emphisis they need to call me or email me about a project plan before beginning.. I also point out the report, as I have had many a scout not do it, and if they did the project a year back, the mind is hazy as to the project details.. Along with other items we dicuss so he know what is expected, and goes into it with the right attitude.. Well from what I got, he did get an MBC, but the MBC, did not pre-meeting, and never met with him at all.. So he went through the MB blindly, but when all was complete, the MBC was no longer an MBC.. By the end of the night, Scout was signed off and happy.. Just MBC Mom was a bit frazzled and miffed, and not due to the scout. All in all it was something I should have handled, as stated by sending them out of the room.. So I have to take blame for it getting out of hand. It is just, that it is not a pattern of behavior that I have gotten used to. Normally both MIB & Fiance are wonderful, helpful and I usually can count on them for support.. So I was not prepared with planned procedures as to how to deal with them, should they not be their normal selfs. It was sort of a family setting, they were half humorous rather then totally serious but half not, as they really wanted me to laugh with them and do it their way. I kept waiting for them to stop ribbing me, and settle back down.. So who spiked the punchbowl??

I think the problem was way to familure with both scout and MBC.. Scout is boyfriend to fiance's little sister.. So you could almost say they felt like they were with family all the way around scout & MBC, and forgot the setting and that I as the MBC although having met the scout two or three times, was definatly not on a family basis with him, but more on an accantance through scouting basis.. Half was having a good time.. Ha! Ha! Your wrong!.. But half was really trying to push me to do things their way.. Luckily I think with this scout turning 18 next week, all friends are on the adult side of the scouting arena.. But gut feeling is definately they hoped my husband would side with them, and hoped he would at least threaten me or tease me to being removed as an MBC.. They even voiced the opinion I should be removed for not allowing a verbal report.. This was said though while laughing at me, attempt to defend my stance.. I even used the exact same arguement ScoutNut.. "submit a report" on the project for req #4. and Discuss on Req # 5.. Their arguement was that "submit a report" could still be verbal, only I could not interupt him.. One is two way communication the other is one-way communication.. I argued the word Submit as in "hand it over".. They argued submit still could be the act of the verbal report.. Technically they were right, but in my interpretation of what BSA expects from this requirement I believe they were wrong.. BSA just didn't fine tune every phrase they used to beat off every dime-store wanna-be lawyer looking for every loophole and easy way out with each and every requirement by putting it under a microscope and picking it apart..

Is the boy wearing a uniform, where possibly no one thinks to wash the uniform? If the father doesn't have the same problem, obviously there are laundry days at the house. Also it is not a family wide problem. I would pull the father aside to have a private talk with him.. See if he can't pull the clothes away for a wash, if he knows it is being noticed.

Well I did trust the scout that he did do the work. That wasn't the issue. The kid gets my vote of confidence.. Problem is he is the only scout who tried to go through scouting the right way in a totally dysfunctional troop. Crossing threads, but this is the one an only older scout from the totally dysfunctional troop that is raising 13 yo Eagles by hand feeding them. This boy had plenty of opportunity to be handfed his Eagle award, he skirted them, and went it alone calling MBC's and doing Merit Badges the right way.. Problem is he had no guidence. Problem is I would imagine any of the MBC's from that troop also did not know how to be good MBC's and work with this youth who did not want to be handfed in a classroom environment.. In talking to him, he could tell me what he did, when he did it.. The one week when all chores were done except for one chore because he was away from home on a scouting event.. Again I probably should have had him pen the data into the empty chart.. Not that that wouldn't have gotten me grief from the two hovering parents.. I believe the scout is honest, and has tried his best to do his Eagle advancement the right way with no help from his troop.

And he doesn't even have a kid..! And his fiance too.. So I know, I should have told them to leave the room, and sit and be quiet in the other room like all good helicopter parents should do. Friend of theirs is down to a week before 18. Lost his MBC, but when I got the blue card, no partial.. Nothing was started or signed off. And the MBC had not started him down the trail very well.. Verbally the scout knew his stuff.. I overlooked the fact that he did not get pre-approval from his old MBC before doing the project for the family as he did a good project, something I would have approved of, and there wasn't time to play hard ball (not that I do most times).. The charting also had issues, but I settled for just discussing the issues and had him verbally interpret the chart for me (frankly it looked like an empty chart to me, although the scout stated it just didn't print out very well). So no problems from son/fiance when I was lenient.. We move to the piece "Submit a report" for the project he did for his family. Which he didn't have a report written. So I asked him to write one as we sat there. Well the howling from the two, you would have thought I had told him to redo his 3 month charting.. They insisted I allow him to do a verbal report, and by asking him to write a report I was adding to the requirements.. It did not say "written report".. I stated I see "Submit a report" as written, and "discuss with your councilor" as verbal.. I stuck to my guns.. I already felt I was lowering my standards on the problems with the charting, and the pre-approval of the councilor (old councilors approval would have been fine).. It was not going to kill the scout to write a quick report. I guess they complained to my husband the District Advancement Chair, that I was an awful MBC.. But, "Ha".. he backed me up saying, I interpreted the requirements my way, I was not adding to the requirements and if the scout disagreed with my interpretation of the requirements he was free to find a new MBC.. By the way, the scout.. Probably would have prefered the verbal report, but was fine with the written.. He was not the one making the stink.. It was his two self-appointed helicopter parents.. I am sure the two helicopter parents will show up on the forum soon to defend themselves.. So.. who sides with them, and who sides with me? How many say we both were wrong, because I should have sent them to the other room to sit on the couch, and not interfered.. After thinking about it, that is what I should have done.

Everyone states the list is academic.. Well most is.. My beef is with Family Life being on it. That is not academic, I don't see it as a MB for this place or summer camp. I am sure the 3 month chart is done before hand. But what about the project for your family.. What about the project with your family? What about the family counsel?.. After that what is left to do at camp? Very, very little.. Besides which the more important discussion with the MBC is BEFORE you start the badge, so that you do it with the right attitude, not after. I have heard of people jerry-rigging this to put in in camp before. I asked how and I was told, they consider the group they are camping with their temporary family for the week.. Really?? You really learn how to respect and understand and work with your family in this manner? For the rest of it, I am of two minds, and I know my views are only my own.. Getting some meritbadges at camp are OK.. But, not all. At least quarter to a half should be done by seeking out a meritbadge councilor and setting up meeting times.. There is a wealth of value learned from this process that should not be overlooked. It is not about what National accepts or does not accept. As stated National has lost it's way and will be the death of the whole scouting movement. It is what is beneficial for our boys, how we can make the time they have in scouts the most rewarding and filled with memories to last a lifetime. How can we use scouting to shape their character.. Memories of sitting for hours in classroom settings.. Finding ways to rush through the process as quickly as possible to pump out 13 yo Eagles, by just concentrating on advancement, and doing away with all the unnecessary distracting "fun" "adventurous" other stuff. Well, that to me is not the way to build memories or character.. It is a way to get a piece of paper with the words "Eagle" on it that you can use for a college app or to bump your pay grade in the military up a notch. So if that is all you wanted, that is what you will get. I guess the boy could use summer camp, this place, or a merit badge weekend for SOME of their merit badges.. Each thing carries a different experience in an of itself.. But if they got them ALL this way and none by using individual MBC's the old fashioned way, they missed out on a great learning process.. If they used all these classroom setting Merit Badge styles to pull off an Eagle rank in 2 or 3 years. They were robbed of a great Scouting experience.. You can get an Eagle certificate in this manner, but that piece of paper will not make the boy any more of an Eagle.. It is about as possible as the Wizard of Oz where handing the Scarecrow a college degree instantly made him smart.. (hint: That piece of paper really didnt make him smart, it was the fantastic journey with his friends down the yellow brick road that did it.)

I have heard of some councils using the obsolete patrols, or making their own. Our council, sees the names as black and white, you can't color outside the lines.. Of course rarely do we fill a course and get those antelopes. We are hopful for our Spring one though, we have over 40 already. This one is different from the normal one.. We always hold it the same weekends of Fall, some could never attend those weekend. We also are not running it over a Sunday, which is allowing LDS to come. Therefore it was a gamble if it would succeed or flubber-dubber..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

oldisnewagain, I am surprise at how they allowed you to write the tickets. I know our courses make sure you do not word it where you fail if dependent on others and you don't get 100% complience. example "Have fully trained ASMs".. Perhaps I am reading more into this, but it would probably get rewritten to state "Encourage ASM's become fully trained", or "Increase the percentage of fully trained ASM's.". Also what is your position?.. You could have done your also in the early WB21c history where all was not fully defined. But now, in the current format, if you were CC might get away with the trained boy Leaders (JLT or TLT) by supporting the SM and helping him organize it.. But the guest speaker for anti-bulling/internet safety would probably been seen as outside your position of authority.. If you were SM, probably all would be fine except getting the committee trained, that would be outside your jurisdiction. Sorry, I am getting trained and grilled for an upcoming WB course where I will be the person looking at tickets to see if they pass the sniff test.. I am probably over analysing them, and based on the rules of todays course.. Obviously what I wrote as my tickets would not pass anyones sniff test by today's standards..