moosetracker

Well, welcome NACAP If you have been following the thread while trying to register, and I know you have been following some since signing on.. You realize that although it's a great place to hang out, you have to have some very thick leathery alligator skin at times.. As far as I am concerned There's right, there's wrong in what is written.. Where things are not black & white then there's are alot of places that people can make the program their own, and pin their own style to it.. It kindof gets confusing when you are moving from black/white into freestyle, and we can have lots of debates about it.. But I like the freestyle parts because it allow each unit to offer something a little different, and allows both youth and parents to figure out the unit that is closest to what they want out of scouting. It is great to see how others in different parts of the country do it, but sometimes we get stuck and argueing over those differences. Whose better? What is black & white, what is freestyle.. Why my way is better then your way.. It's fun as long as you go in wearing your allegator hide.

Sorry for the difficult time you had to get registered. You are not the first to complain of this.. Anyway, welcome, sounds like your son will have a very exciting career in scouting with a father who is so excited to jump in and get involved with it. So do you live close by Philmont, that you are taking Woodbadge training there rather then in you council.. If so, that will be awsome for training and for adventurous events..

Sad that after the whole process to get these boys to become confident, self-relient leaders who are suppose to be well rounded individuals.. You feel you need to bubble wrap them so that they do not feel too much undue stress not only on the Scout, but also on the situation about a person they have spent an hour or so with reviewing the project outline coming to one of his work days for an hour or two to observe how the project is doing, ask him how things are going, praise him on his work, talk to his leaders exchanging some ideas and a few laughs.. Not much different then working with a merit badge counsilor, not much different then another troop leader or district leader wandering into their campsite during a camporee to socialize with his adult leaders, or check out thier lashed project.. Not much different then performing some challenge or feat at a camporee with adult leaders from other troops or from district judging their efforts.. Instead you feel these young men at the height of there scouting career, during their eagle project will freak out at a visit from someone they have already spent time discussing their project with.. Sort of reminds me of the parents who fear thier kids walking to the bus stop, worried to let them go outside to play, worried about allowing them to walk to the store by themselves.. To me, doesn't sound like much of an Eagle scout. I may be wrong maybe you are seriously a very scary looking guy..

How to I subscribe to the Advancement News.. Not a twitter person..

One thing MIB didn't mention is the scout's project is not rejected because they do not call.. MIB himself had an issue, he was given a district Advancement board member who probably should have been put out to pasture, but no one had the heart. Well, when he did call the man argued with him that he was not assigned to him. MIB called the DAC and asked what he should do, the DAC just laughed and said "Don't worry about it." No one else was assigned to him. The assigned Councilor though has helped in cases where a question arose about a project. Chances are the problem would have been worked through anyway, but it is alot faster when someone on the board can pop up and vouch that things were fine from what he saw.. That happened with a scout in our troop, there was a question if his project did have enough scope, the DAC himself had been to the final result of the project (which was a program open to the public about the importance and care of the American flag.. The DAC, vouched that the program was outstanding, and met all the requirments.

Well we offer all that too. But they come to us for training. They come to us for camporees, Camps etc.. Our UC promotes someone in the unit being the units UC (I disagree with that one myself..).. So except for FOS, and maybe camp promotion (when we want something from them). They don't see anyone visiting their units. I have met people resistant to the visits of the promoters, but I have yet to see anyone not wanting a friendly visit because they care about the scouts or care about their program.

KC8 Inviting yourself, or showing up uninvited, to ANY event, is just bad manners. If the Scout for some reason invites you to stop by and help out (I don't know why he would) then no problem. But if you're saying the someone from the district HAS to be present to observe an Eagle project... that's sounds like you're adding to the requirements, which is, of course, prohibited The boys wiil get one person of the board to contact and let them know when a fundraiser or work date is.. The contact person will not go to everything. He will hopefully be able to attend one thing where it is convient to his schedule. He will not stay all day.. (Except, once when it was a fundraiser dance, then I believe both Husband & son stayed for the entire thing.) For the most part the unit is overseeing the project.. The Eagle board member will get a feel for the boys leadership style, and for the well being of the unit in upholding some basic standards.. Because they do go out and visit many troops these guys are very well aware that no two troops are alike, no two boys are alike, and no two projects are alike.. If they did not go out to visit Eagle projects then you would get the narrow minded scouter who would insist everything be done his way.. Or the out of touch scouter, who couldn't tell an Eagle project if it jumped up and bit him in the nose.. The Lone scouter though presents a unique case, of how is his project over seen by his unit??.. OH, YES.. It isn't, it is just being overseen by the over-controling helicopter Mom.. This is where the board sees a need to step in and do alot more visits, then show up for an hour on one of his work days..

It is not district only EBORs, other people are invited to sit on the board.. Maybe not people with no connection to Scouting.. And No, not a person in their own troop, But they will invite people from different units to sit in from time to time, just so they can get to know the process, and the district gets to know them. Then sometimes, if the person is excellent on the board, they may ask him to join and become a regular. My husband originally joined this way, he was going up for some board, may have been my son's or may have been someone else, but they asked him to sit on the board that the scout from his troop was not going to be on.. (Unless a very quiet night they usually split and run two seprate boards to move people through faster, while taking the time deserved on each scout.).. Before being part of the Advancement board, I know my troop and we as parents were greatful for the Eagle project comeing before the Eagle Board. It got the scout to know what the Eagle Board looked like, and helped calm their nerves about an "unknown" when they went for the second time and the true EBOR.. Sort of like a dry run.. (If I am not mistaken, I think that is why they do run it that way..) In the end, only one member of the board is normally chosen to oversee the project.. Normally chosen because they live closest to.. Then though they are invited by the scout to a few things, it is lucky if they can show up to one thing, due to having their own personal life, and possibly still being involved with their own troop. When they show up, it is normally not for the whole day, but for an hour or two.. Normally Adult leaders are happy to see people from the district branch take and interest in them and their unit.. I know both husband and son have received Thank-yous for showing up both informally and formally in a letter or email.. They also are invited to many ECOR's.. KC9 - For you to have such a dislike to any district interferance, you must really hate and distrust those who are district members.. Luckily our district has a healthy working relationship with those who are at the unit level.

Gunny - am still willing to follow the truth and would agree that if the facts finally did show an overzealous and violent short man with an overblown sense of self senselessly killing an innocent child who wandered into his path that he should be publicly strung up on the town square - after a trial. Wow he has to be a overzealous person on a rampage to kill, or he is innocent??? What about something in the middle, like involuntary manslaughter.. His reckless actions cause the death of another, although that was not his intent.. Clearly he must have known that following people around could be dangerous, if not, he would have felt no need to pack a weapon..

So, if people from the outside go to this fundraiser, and find the scout is doing the project and the mother is staying out of it and report favorably, you have no issue.. But, if they go to the project and find the Mother doing the project and the son maybe doing some form of help, or perhaps not even present, as he had a date with his girlfriend, the thing to do is to not to bud in, allow the mom to run the Eagle project and earn her son the award.. It is no one concern how the Eagle award is earned.. If not, then with no troop (Scout Master, ASM, committee Chair) to oversee the scout is responsible for running their own project, who do you propose is responsible to make sure the Eagle project is carried out by the Scout.. The Mom? who has listed herself as the advisor, and is doing the project for him? Why do you think that browbeating or tricking the registrar into enrolling them as lone scout.. I don't know how a Lone Scout should register, but I doubt this is the proper procedure.. Maybe you are right, there is not definition around this type of enrollment. It may be the reason for National looking into the case, to tighten the rules around how one becomes a registered Lone Scout.. I would be surprised if they really got involved in this, case.. But I can see them using it for a case study to tighten up loose strings.. If the scout is doing his project right, and the mother just is a worker-bee then there will be nothing that will impede this scouts process.. You make it sound like the Eagle Board is going to go out of it's way to ensure failure by this scout. If for your Eagle project, you are holding a fundraiser that you are promoting for everyone to come to, then why would you bar other Scouters from attending, simply because you do not want them to see what you are doing? Most scouts are very proud of their projects and excited to have people from the board visit so that they can show off.. Why shouldn't they? If they are doing their Eagle project correctly, they will have alot to be proud of.

KC9DDI - you fail to comprehend entirely the situation by harping on the registration and Lone Scout enrollment.. Fortunately someone at the National level did pick up on the problem with the situation and must be a quiet observer.. He has asked for more information, to take the case to the national level, even though our Council is not, for the very fact they don't think we have enough evidence that National will back us.. Perhaps you have a few words for him as to how it is not the concern of the Advancement board to make sure an Eagle award is earned honestly? Not sure if his interest is for case study to tighten rules around this practice, or to deal with this particular case.. Council is also 100% in favor of our district watching this scouts project as intensely as possible, and they will step in and back us, if they feel our Advancement board gets enough evidence of wrong doing.. If this was a scout in another troop.. And it was clear by indication at the Eagle Board, or by report from other scouters that the boys parents were doing the project for the scout.. Yes they would get a lot of "surprise" visits from the Eagle board during their project.. And yes, my husband and son have on occasion, pulled an adult aside, to have a talk about who was running the project.. A troop though has a few more checks and balances a Committee Chair or "active" COR can call out a ScoutMaster who is running their sons project.. Likewise a ScoutMaster can call out a wayward parent who is interfereing in their childs project.. When the scout is set up as a Lone Scout, with their only overseer being the parent who is doing the work on behalf of their child, it adds an extra problem, of having to be more diligent about having outside eyes overseeing the project. The Advancement Board will probably give a little more presence at the other lone scouts Eagle project, just because they have no outside adult leaders overseeing it.. But unless the parents of this scout give them signs to start worrying about them also, it will not be the type of presence that the scout of helicopter Mom will have. Therefore if it was simply the registration, and the lone Scout enrollment, why isn't the board wanting to "harrass" both scouts equally? Sounds like you are all in favor of the Eagle award being handed out like candy whether the boy deserves it or not?.. Why is that?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Sorry Gunny, but clean up and first aid for a broken nose and head wound so severe it needed stitches, would require some bandaging, to the nose & back of head.. and would result in bleeding, head wounds are known to bleed profusely for the simplist of cuts.. Unless they had Jesus Christ as the paramedic that treated Zimmermons wounds, and he was healed with his touch. The video shows that if he suffered any injury at all, it was not as severe as the claims reported by police and Zimmerman's lawyer.

For all I know the registrar may have backdated the registration also. I know that has happened before, don't remember the full of it, but I do know our old troop sat on some paperwork (probably getting signature of COR or something) The check and paperwork stated a date 2 months prior to when we got the paperwork to them, the registration was backdated to show the scout had joined 2 months prior. If the registration now looks like they register in January (when their old troop officially folded).. Then there will be nothing to hang them on about a period of time not registered. They will look like they never skipped a beat. My question is, shouldn't there be a signiture by DE or someone at council level to register as a Lone Scout?.. It is almost like applying to be your own mini troop. Someone should approve if there is a valid reason for signing up to be a lone scout.. From what I see the council is going about it right. It is like the police, who know a criminal when they see one, but they haven't done enough to make a charge stick.. Give them a little more rope and let them hang themselves on something that will stick.. KC9DDI - The lone scout and the non-registration are just part of a pattern along with other things this mother is doing, that show that she is earning the Eagle award for her son, the son is not doing much accept following mom.. Dollars to Donuts, all the promoting with the defunct troop where with posters and newspaper & radio ads that were place by Mom.. Scout may have seen the ad campaign mom was putting out, but that is it. The advancement board is charged with ensuring the scout has earned the rank of Eagle. It is not happening in this case and they know it is not.

Their position is, you are punishing the scout for the behavior of the parent.. The scout is normally not overseeing his registration (though possibly should be.) Now if the scout allows his parent to run his project for him, you can call him on that.

Yes, that is what the other moose is saying.. These scouts came to the board in February, and presented themselves as Lone Scouts. This did raise some eyebrows as half the group did not know what a Lone scout was, my husband was going to ask the DE, but he didn't.. When Scouts present their project there is a workbook, but no paperwork on their scout status.. Projects were approved, but board felt weird about the lone scout thing, as there was no good reason for it, and there was one pushy mom that was interupting the board on her son's behalf. Well one scout promoted a Eagle Scout fundrasier listing it was for the troop they use to belong to (which is now defunct).. An adult leader of another troop called them on it, found out this lone scout thing, and that the mother knows she has not registered her scout but is trying to pull a fast one.. Adult leader talked to DE, the troop is defunct, we have no lone scouts in the district, the scouts are not registered. The DE wants them to find a troop, no good reason for the Lone Scout.. Well my husband talked to the first mother of lone scout who had handed registration money to helecopter mom, and had thought they were registered as lone scouts, son has yet to start his project. He could not talk to helecopter mom, as parents were not home. That project is started as he has been promoting for a fundraiser that will happen this Saturday. Before the next evening helecopter mom got wind of issue, and called not my husband, not the DE, but the Council registrar, and harrassed him into enrolling the tow scouts as lone scouts.. So done deal now, whether the DE would have approved it or not.. Council will not enforce not accepting the work the scouts did while not registered, but said that the district can watch (especially helecopter mom's) sons project, but both projects and call them on it, if the mother is running the project.. So they will be planning some monitoring.. Also registrar got some new direction on operating procedures of registering lone scouts or full new units.. And Eagle board has organize a way to know at least that the scout at the project approval board is registered..

Lisabob - This unarmed child was shot at point blank range by a man who chased him through the neighborhood in a car, even after being told by officials to leave him alone. Whatever else did or did not happen, that much is pretty much undisputed, Nope, this is disputed by Zimmermon's account. First off alot of the following was done on foot.. But Zimmermon says after told to stop following, he did and went back to his car.. Then had to get back out of the car to look at the street post to figure out where he was. And then Trayvon came up to him, and argued with him then attacked him.. Well, All of Zimmermon's account is disputed of course. You also might argue it, but there is a different account that is presented..

Well I stand corrected.. With the newest story.. At least the police at the scene found it important enough to take Zimmerman to the police station, and it at least rustled interest for the police chief to come out on a Sunday night for it, and the state Attorney was at least contacted for a decision to hold him or not.. But this new video pretty much seems like Zimmerman was not that badly hurt.. Also as stated, if he shot while Travon was on top of him fighting to get control of the gun, there is no blood of Travon on him.. This story is just very, very weird.. I don't know what to make of it.

acco40 - "why did this murder generate so much publicity? IMO, it is simple, it sells." It sells true, but I think it is what one newscast described also. It is a "perfect storm". I think were I black, I too would be upset about the neccessity to have to teach my child how to conduct themselves in public not to raise suspicions.. While most of us white folks are oblivious to this, and under the notion this country has come a long way in racial equality.. It is a perfect story for the blacks to make it know we white folks are delusional.. I for one did not hear the story in the news until about 20 days after the event. I am not from Florida.. I do not think the national new picked up on the story, until it became a city that thousands were headed to for large protests.. The national news is more about that perfect storm. I am sure in Florida and neighboring states the news was closer to the time of the death. And that news was what gathered the thousands to the area for a protest.. But the thousands who came, did so to make sure it did become a National news story. There is much in the news about both the Travon Martin story, as there is the story of how the blacks of this country still don't feel secure about equality.. They are eye-opening stories, but could not come out without a catalyst.. For me, The stand your ground law has flaws.. Law enforcement did not handle the situation right.. There were two men who (from my point of view) neither acted wisely.. Zimmerman should not have had a gun, and did things to make Travon suspicious of him, as he followed with his own suspicions.. Tampa Turtle was on a jury, for something that could have been a "stand-your-ground" issue.. It was not a "Let's not investigate, it's a stand-your-ground" issue.. Had they taken him in and done a complete investigation, then the suspicions and anger would not have rose to the heights it is at today.. Zimmerman would not be in hiding for his life, just might have spent some long not so plesent hours at the police station and maybe have had to go through a trial in a case that was not blown out of proportion.. If he is not put on trial, because they do find that he was in fear for his life (after instigating the situation that put him in that predicament) then I think it will mean not only witness protection, but some plastic surgery before he can enter witness protection.. All could have been prevented if the police conducted the investigation as if it was a more serious matter then someone running over a bicycle that was left in a driveway.

I understand your viewpoint.. Given that you could recruit youth who want adventure but not advancement, no uniforms and also girls who could never join a troop.. You could open yourself to a new pool of people, and still help any boy from the troop obtain Eagle in a Venture patrol (I assume all are first class by now). My only fear is if this competitive troop is as you say, just pulling away scouts from your troop as some sort of victorious thrill game.. (If I am right, you are the one with some guy who was either cub master or Unit Commissioner for the Pack for the sole purpose of recruiting them away from your troop).. Well, if it pleases them to continue to do so.. They could start a Venture Crew also, so that again they could try to pull anyone you hope to recruit.. Of course your recruitment pool isn't so easy to find and highjack as a feeder Pack.. But just saying..

They didn't put JTE on the topic list at all.. I only gave a small list of what was on the agenda.. They had other things, as said each topic only had a 10-15 minute window. So you may be right with the information being fed in a boring fashion.. But, it better not be predominately on any one of these subjects.. Get in. Get out.. Get on to the next topic...

What is it, if you have been to one, what did you think? I asked our Council Training Chair what it is, she did not know, has never been to one, and her or her good friend (who still do most things together) have held the Council Training position for as long as I can remember (so 15 years at least.) So I guess we are in Area 1.. Which I guess covers at least NH and MA as it is being held in MA.. Anyone else going? Sounds like maybe just info and updates on subjects, then actual training ideas. the times they gave for things seem to small for large training to go on.. Most topics only getting 10 to 15 minutes a piece.. Some topics are on ILST, ILSC, ILSS after e-learning Supplemental Training NYLT EDGE IOLS They asked us for any topic ideas we might have.. I was thinking about asking about the rumor they are changing Woodbadge again and if it is to just mirror the changes they made to NYLT, or if they are more drastic changes.. I was also thinking of asking about the status of the computer system how close to implementation, and what it will add to ease the life of District Trainers. Any other topics, you think I should ask about?

Sorry that was experienced by you and your boys Basement.. I will probably state that little would be done by me the first incident, except for a stern stare, whack in the elbow, or something to get the boys making the worst comment attention, but not verbalize anything else where I would draw attention to myself, and make the kids who were being verbally victimized a chance to feel more self concious. Now out of earshot of the boys who were harrassed, that is when I would have my heart to heart with the boys.. Hopefully enough so that day # 2, would not happen.. I am just going by how I reacted when my son at a very young age would say inapproriate things... Not that it was ever about a hispanic or black scouts, but it might as well be, it was at the stage where kids noted differences and stated them honestly and loudly.. Me, I just would cringe, want to crawl under the table, and try to silently get him to shut-up..

Brewmeister - I am sorry, you felt that that was a put down to CS or Webelos.. While yes it is a put-down for a troop, I don't see it as parellel a put-down for CS.. That is because it deals with age appropriatness.. You shouldn't run a Webelos den the same as you would run a Tiger den.. That means you are not allowing your child to start becoming self-sufficient.. A Webelos Den run right is a wonderful thing, because it is exactly what the scouts that age need. It will offer them challenge and adventure for that age group. But again, as you should not run a Webelos den similar to a Tiger den.. You should not run a Troop like a Webelos den.. By the end of Webelos the scouts are itching to do more, they are ready to take another leap into bigger things.. If that is how they feel at around 13 then how will they feel aroutn 15 or 17??.. A troop run as a Webelos den will loose the scouts interest very early on.. They need more challenge, higher adventures, more self sufficency and more trust from their adult leaders that they can figure things out for themselves..

If starting the Family Life merit Badge with a scout, I like to ask a parent attend the first meeting. This is so that the parent as well as the scout hears what the SCOUT must do, and understands that the FAMILY must be involved in family project, and the family meeting.. Along with other things like I always suggest that when the Scout comes to the part of discribing their own worth to the family, they ask their family the question. It is hard to toot your own horn, and the family can see values in you that you may never had even thought you performed for them. Also a parent has to approve the individual project the scout does for the family.. The Family is so included in that, it just seems a good idea to make sure both scout and parent(s) understand when to get involved, and when to let the scout do their own thing. Don't have any stories where the parents floored me with their knowledge on the subject. Not that I am so wonderful, just parents did not show that much of an interest in the subject. PS.. You can now stop beating up on son & fiance. I feel bad they took so much heat for that.. As Beav.. said it is a normal mistake people will do at least once, weather at a MB session, or in not backing another leader when you should stand together.. Other mistakes were made that night.. I also made a mistake on how I wrote it up on the forum, that put so much heat on them. You learn, you move on..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Well anyone who is a participant for Baloo, should be CS leaders, unless they are straddling both camps CS & BS at the same time.. So there shouldn't be anyone looking down their noses at anyone for being a CS leader.. Totally ridiculous.. I always teach both CS & BS specifics on the same day, while alot of the BS are already wise old owls (some are greenhorns though).. The CS leaders usually either know their stuff at least at the CS level or are eager to learn it, and they come to the course with much more enthusisam (most times).