moosetracker

I don't mind Mothers day either.. It's a Sunday anyway, normally the boys are back by noon.. Half a day of peace & quiet, they are home early enough to bbq dinner.. If though your wife will not be a happy camper, then the question is do you have other adult leaders who can go instead? SM does not mean you need to go on all trips.. You should have some ASM's or even well trained Committee Members who could make the event, and you stay home.

I agree with Lisabob.. We traveled 30 minutes one way for the troop my son landed in.. Even if an hour fo a good troop, that driving time is still less then what you would do being a one man show.. That said, if you did find enough help to run one or the other, I say troop also for a few reasons.. First is what Basement said.. Second is it is easier for you to run if some of the workload is placed on the boys, with cubbies you organize it all.. Third you go with your kid. Not much purpose is spending mega hours running a cub pack that your son is not even part of. He will grow up, and you will miss it..

Only depends on the church you attend if you see that siding with Equality for all, and learning to love your neighbor whoever he/she may be, is less Godly.. Sorry OGE, you comment could not go unchecked.

Welcome to the boards astrospartian. What you can do will depend on your position in scouting. IF SM, there are things you can do.. If the SM is concerned, at least you can take suggestions to him. If the SM is not concerned, there is little you can do. Anyway, the question is this, is your troop really being boy-led? Or due to the weak leadership are the adults picking up the slack? If the SPL is just a figure head, and the troop is really adult run, it will make no difference to these boys who they pick.. If choosing a poor SPL means they will have 6 months of bad program, they will start caring about there choices.. If you are not the SM, and the SM is not concerned, then chances are he is happy to have an adult led troop.

The no response I get alot.. Either it is their way of saying "NO".. Which is rude in my opinion.. Or it could be undecided because they just can't plan anything further out then a day in advance.. So of those with responses they are a "No" also?.. No one is coming to the party? That would be sad.. Bring a picnic lunch for your family.. Anyone else showing up, it would be sorry didn't hear from you, didn't plan for you.. If you do get a few, again plan a picnic for a small group.. If others show, either they better have a dish to stretch the food, or they go hungry.. Have Parent run out to the nearest fast food, or cumberland farm if his family wants to eat. Seriously, you don't want to reward this type of behavior or they will never learn.

Sounds like a strange move, when they just made the mega Councils, and the plan for that was for MORE DE's.. Change of idea in 6 months time??.. Difference of the new guy at Nationals.. Hmmm.. Not sure if it would work.. It might for the program side of things.. But not for the yuccky stuff, like Finance & Membership.. I know for that we are not working for the good of the boys, but (at least in my council), it is to help out the DE.. Who are they going to threaten to fire if you have low Finance or Membership.. The volunteers?? The guy who heads the Council, who we rarely see or hear from, so one Joe is as good as another?? If so it's program for the boys all the way, figure out your own Finance & Membership..

My son and his fiance just went through this.. I guess fiance is still going through it for a few weeks.. The 18 to 21 age is weird.. As with a unit committee, officially you can not register as being on the committee until 21. But both were on the district committee. Son was on the Eagle board since 18 & also part of Training.. His fiance I gave the position of Vice Chair of Training. Both were treated as part of the district committee.. The filled out the registration for DC but, could not officially be DC until 21.. We still let them wear the silver epilets.. Sons fiance has been voted in as Member at Large in March, though she can't pass her registration in for a few weeks.. So you could say her Member at Large status is in a holding pattern until then. The rule mongers on the board will of course come by and tsk, tsk, us not following the rules.. But our DC was all for getting those 18-on up (younger blood) on board.. I guess it will be up to your District Committee how much of rule followers they are.. But, as for getting registered as DC or registered as a Member at Large.. That will end up waiting.. Really though the only voting our committee does is to vote each year who the Members at Large are.. So you won't miss much there.. Otherwise if they are a welcoming group, you probably wont see a difference of if registered or not..

LOL.. If I really could pull that off, I might even get some donations!!

Sorry, I don't swim with any big fishes.. I have told our DE that Finance is not at all the place for me to be. When I was a Woodbadge Scribe and learned something of the Scribes duty was to find someone willing to donate 60 2 inch three ring binders, I knew of one place only and was very uncomfortable asking.. And yes thinking small, I looked for the cheapest set of binders on the internet, and asked for them.. The buisness themselves pooh-poohed me and went out and bought the ones the best on the market.. I know the owner also already is one of the Districts big sharks.. Very, generous to Scouting in many ways, so I also knew asking did not kill the FOS donation for that year.. Still asking made me nervous..

We had this happen alot, luckily our camp was not too distant.. We usually got one person to stay the whole week, the other adult leader was a rotation of people who could come in for 1 or two days..

Oh, I did not give up the position of District Training Chair to go BIGGER.. I frankly gave it up to give my son a district position.. I would be happier going smaller, but I am definatly more prone to the program side, (fun stuff).. I really don't want anything that the performance of the job denotes either the DE's salary, or if he is fired.. I don't volunteer for that type of pressure.. Although the last few months have also seen some pressure put on the program side.. Something about the District Journey to Excellence has to be up, or the DE may get the boot too. So far no one can give the District Committee Chair the numbers he is looking for though as the dismal Scout computer system is not designed to spit the information out.. I did try to join a Pack for a short time, but was very much an outsider. Maybe because I had no kids in the program, don't know, but I tried for about 6 months, then just quietly faded away as that being a dismal failure.. So here I sit on District committee.. Can't sit here doing nothing.. I debated going to Unit Commissioner, but I may be too opinionated to do well there.

Don't know Basement, but I gave my District Training Chair to my son, and though I took a subsidiary job until I find something I like (FOS is not it..).. I am right now kind of foot loose & fancy free.. It is hard for the DE to find any volunteers for those jobs that are not fun, membership, and Finance anything (Finance Chair, FOS, Popcorn, etc..).. So normally someone on the committee with another job gets guilted into doing it, for the year.. Although not wanting the position, I really would feel bad to say 'no' and watch someone with another hefty position take on extra work, as I bide my time looking for something "fun".. I guess I like the people on the district staff, and feel it would be helping the team to take it on for this year..

This topic has me concerned. My DE would like me to head up FOS, I think he is hoping I would make it my new position.. I am half thinking about it for this year only, thinking I need to pay my dues, and we can't always just opt to run the "fun" parts of the District Committee. But, a year would all I serve in order to feel I had paid my dues.. When we talked he just said I had to make sure everyone was asked "nicely".. I sure do not want to take on something that rings of extortion, where I have to bring my armed muscle men Huey & Louie with me in order to rough anyone up who doesn't pay in as much as needed.. Also I hesitate over if there is alot of needed visitation and phone calls.. Living outside the district a 30 minute drive away from the very southern tip where then it stretchy to about a 3 hour drive to get northern tip.. That too has me worried, I just can not afford to do it, besides gas, every phone call is considered long distance..

You are still helping with Den meetings even if you aren't helping at ALL den meetings, but those where you help is needed.

Daddy longlegs & Black widows... Weird grouping, if there was one black widow, and 20 Daddy longlegs.. the one black widow would have all my attention.. I suggest you be prepared and bring your own spider killer spray.. So is your troop attending again this summer, or is there some other reason you are visiting?

Sorry, I know our area is not alone in this because it has been discussed on this forum before. Sounded like your area didn't have the issue, by the way you wrote your post.. You are lucky to have created a culture where the boys see this as a position of respect, and not one where they just got a demotion. Smart troops will try to foster it, but it is hard to get started. Takes one or two gung-ho scouts that are well respected taking on this position, and giving it the prestige needed. Adults can talk it up, but if the scouts peers aren't buying it, neither will the scout.. Normally the people asking for a den chief are upset at the troop for being so rude to not respond to the call.. But, SM can't FORCE scouts into this position, if they did you might get a lump who does nothing, or someone who rarely shows up.. You only want to send scouts who volunterily take on the position.

Well a Den Chief would help, but it is easier to pan for gold in most places. The only time you luck out is if the troop is large, and there are not enough Positions or Responsibility within the troop for all the boys who need a position.. Or.. You find the real gem of a scout who really wants to work with young cubs.. Most Scouts are excited about moving on to Boy Scouts, tired of the CS program.. And a Den Chief means extra nights & weekends to be at both BS meetings, BS weekend events, then also to be at Den meetings & pack weekend events.. It is absolutely NOT ask and you shall receive.. More ask, and hope and pray, but don't be surprised if no one comes. Make sure to find out if your council holds anything like Scouting University, it is a fun day to pick from hundreds of classes each about an hour long, and you choose the classes that are of interest to you.. Learn about Webelos to Boy Scout Transition.. Slowly the boys you work with should move from depending on your leadership, to working as a patrol and being more independent..

I agree with ScoutNut.. That would be the first course of action. If that does not work out.. I suggest looking for a CO that would accept writing up some sort of agreement, that what you come in with could leave with the troop if you so choose.. What equipment gets replaced over the years though would then belong to the CO.. Spend down you cash on equipment or outings, and then start with the new CO.. ScoutNut.. I missed the story about Chicago & the COR's do you have a link to the story, or can you summerize it?(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

sorry double post.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

He did not attend 30%, he attended LESS then 30%.. Could be 29% could be 1% we don't know.. If someone asked you to be one of his recommendations for a job interview, and you had to decline, because you didn't know him well enough to give the recommendation.. (Not you thought he was a jerk, or unworthy, but just didn't know him well enough..) Would you feel uncomfortable if he got the job without your recommendation?.. Or if someone else gave him the recommendation you could not?.. The boy did his POR and hopefully attended enough meetings to have done it well.. Who knows maybe he never showed up, and recieved a sign-off for his POR because no one removed him from the job. But, if the troop still exists then perhaps their SM would sign off.. If not, and the form goes in without a SM signature, the SM just says he couldn't sign off because he doesn't know the scout well enough to do so, and he did not at any time while registered to their troop meet the troops expectations for an active scout. But he may have in his other troop. If the board determines the requirements were met and reward the boy his eagle.. Well the SM need not have to squirm about the conclusion.. Not signing does not state he thinks the boy is unworthy, not signing means he doesn't know the scout well enough to testify as to whether he is or is not worthy.

Beavah did not mean Who cares if anything is done right, or if the program is run right, or if the boy advances right.. What he meant was, if you in good concious can not sign the papers as SM because you don't know the boy well enough to sign off on him, then be true to yourself.. Don't short change your principles.. The SM signature is expected, but not required. So the boy can go to the board without the signatures.. The lack of signatures will prompt questions, but if the board is satisfied that the boy met the requirements and sign off on it. Then it is them who signed off on him. Why should the SM care. The SM should not be hell bent on keeping the scout from getting Eagle, he shouldn't make it his life's mission to destroy the kids chances.. If the kid gets it that is great.. But, at the same time the SM should still be able to look at himself in the mirror.. And also be able to walk into his troop without the boys whispering behind his back about how he signed off on some strange kid who had showed up about 4 times in the last year, and never was really a member of the troop... Your right, if the boy did the work, then he should get the award.. The district or Council or National will give it to him if he deserves it. But those signing the paper as to the boys accomplishments, should be people who can atest to that.. So really the SM is caring about his own integrity and the health of the attitude in his troop over the Eagle Rank.. But, he should be fine with the boy getting the Eagle rank without his signature.. He shouldn't care if he does.. Might be even nice if he sincerly wishes him luck at his Eagle board.

my interpretation of how to use a guidebook, is you read it, you follow it, and if parts of it don't work so good and you have bottlenecks and collisions and problems, you sit down with the guidebook, check to see if it is really a guide, or a mandate.. If not a mandate, figure out a better procedure that will work for you unit. Mind you that is my interpretation.. It is like starting a buisness so you read buisness for dummies book.. It says your secretary is suppose to secretary, your Financial officer is to finance, your computer guy is suppose to computer, you are to be the boss & be bossy. Secretary goes on vaca.. who is to answer the phones now?? Book doesn't say.. so you the boss guy answer the phone... Whose going to come into your company and tell you, you have broken the golden rules of how to run a company?..

Then they should put into the Mandated area that where ever the word "NOT" is used then it is mandatory.. or that "may not" or "can not" mean it is mandatory.. They do not.. So you interpret whether the word "NOT", changes the meaning of may or can.. I will allow my district people to read the info about Must & Shall and May & can.. And interprete for themselves what how mandatory the word "NOT" makes anything... Because you are interpreting your own conclusion, and everyone else has the right to read the info and interpret what they make of it. To me it's a GUIDE book, not a RULE book, therefore anything not clarified as a rule or mandatory is not.. Therefore "NOT" does not change the meaning of "MAY".. nor does "MAY NOT".. become mandatory because no one said it meant it was optional. To me, if no one said it was manditory, then being in the Guide book, it is a GUIDE, not a RULE.. Probably best if they go back to marking in BOLD what is mandatory.. Because, I will never see your point, and you will never see mine. bnelon - That is the job of the SM and his adult and Jr. Leader staff. that is how your troop sees the function of the Advancement Coordinator.. Other troops see the Advancement Coordinator as an intricate part of program, and use him as such.. You can quote all your want from these Guidebooks, but a troop will use it as just that "A Guide" then decide the best way to carry out their mission.. If a SM who is responsible for program, sees the AC as being part of his program.. Then who are you to tell him how to run his program?

Basements solution worked for him. I am glad it did. I would not try it with a lawyer father.. Someone who is doing a job of a public servent, can be taped without their knowledge. But a private citizen can not..

Yep.. Depending on how the troop utilizes the Advancement Coordinator. With many troops a good Advancement Coordinator has what it takes to be a good ASM.. They know their scout craft and must be good working with youth. Even if it is them guiding the older boys on how to fairly judge that a scout knows enough to be signed off. I guess if the SM or ASM guide the youth in how to sign off younger scouts and you just use your AC for paperwork, you would not see this.. But, many troops use the AC, to help guide the scouts.. and isn't this what a ASM does? That is why for that job in particular the lines get blurry..