moosetracker

Ohhhh.. a conspiracy!.. Tooooo... Funnnnny... My daily laugh! Obama, made it clear it was his personal opinion, on same-sex marriage. He still supported a states right to make the decision.. He is doing so because he is pro-equal rights, not pro-gay.. Obama has no time or desire to rip apart BSA, in some secret conspiracy, during an election year that promises to be a tight run.. Being labeled Pro-gay is like when non-blacks supported equal rights for blacks.. They were called ni--er lovers. Suffice it to say, that maybe James Turley & Barack Obama may work together on issues and be friends because they share some common beliefs and agree on some issues.. Mr. Norris, may be excercising too much and loosing some brain matter to muscle building..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Our camp always looked at the date of the last examination. Not at the date the Dr filled out the paperwork. Luckily when I did health forms kids and younger adults had a 2 year window their health forms were good for, it was only the over 40 adults that needed a yearly physical.. That was tough enough.. So glad I never had to do it when everyone became an annual physical.

SP.. Not really, the liberals may want their states to support same-sex marriage, as does homosexuals themselves.. But, no one is argueing that all churches must perform those marriages. No one argues that an LDS church must open up to all children of all faiths (some do some don't). Other churches have only wanted to cater to children of their faith.. so be it. Some CO's only want men as adult leaders. There have been others who have complained about this, the only thing we tell them is if they really object to it, and feel it goes against the principles they are teaching their son, then find a different unit, if not and their son is happy in the unit.. Let their son be. I know of one unit that is open only to children with handicaps. Guarenteed if the BSA opened up to athiests, there will be some units set up to only athiests.. Maybe even to homosexual children (but to do that would be harder, as it would be scrutinized and analyze to make sure it was similar to gender grouping (boy scouts if for boys).. And not about having a club that dealt with sex issues per se..). That it was more for giving them a safe haven where they will not be harrassed or bullied, rather then a place to find date's, camp with boyfriends, and talk about sexual issues.. It may be hard to do.. More likely they would probably need to find a CO that is open to homosexuals, start a group that is very welcoming to homosexuals, and depending on the area may be open to anyone, but if it starts off as dominated by homosexuals they may not have too many normal people feeling comfortable in the unit.

Visiting for events is one thing.. Setting up house may be another thing. I am not sure. But, if your new Council is telling you the same thing, that you can not set up house in the other Council's turf, then that is the Council I would listen to. They are your new council, They have no reason to lie to you especially when it serves them no purpose to do so. They would benefit in added memberships if you set up on another councils turf.. Yet they too are telling you that you can not do it. If they are telling you the same thing the old council is when they would profit from this action, there is something to what is being said to you. Yet, you want to disregard what both councils are saying and go rogue.. Not a great start off in the new council. Like Beavah said, if what you are proposing doesn't sound bad if it is a few miles from the council lines, but the actions have other negative possibilities. If you could do what you are doing, then what is to prevent me from using my sisters chuch in IL To sponsor a unit here in NH? Then I am part of the IL council.. I am suppose to be putting on a youth program for the church in IL in their community.. I don't think I will be recruiting much from that IL community.. What we told you was they don't have the right to keep you from going to events in an area.. If you were camping out of council, and held a court of honor or something in that location no problem.. But, there may be rules around the boundries of what you call your permenant place of residence. If your new council & old council are in agreement on the issue, then listen to them. Especially listen to your new council. If you don't the new council can simply revoke your charter.

So how did you leave 7 kids behind in the old pack, if there is no CO there??.. Basically you could have taken All your kids and with your new CO had hammered out adult leader positions with them.. Also, if your old pack had no CO, that might explain why your old council would not make position changes.. Your whole pack was in limbo, and no one could add scouts, adult leaders or make position changes to a unit with no CO or COR to make the decisions for those position changes.

The difference is a line was drawn. Most of us draw a line to who we allow as role models for our kids. The BSA picked theirs. Good thing those lines are always drawn in the sand.. Make it easier to erase and redraw it when the need arises.

From what I gather, they did start a new pack, and took alot of the old pack with them. Don't know about having a CO in the other council area, and having your pack meeting in the first council.. Again, if the school is willing, my feeling is that the council has no right to say they can't.. Especially if it's a once a month pack meeting rather then the den meetings (which I would assume would be up to the den leaders to figure out.. Now if the school was their CO, they would need to be in the council it resided in.. But, I can see a council getting their panties in a bind about it.. The pack if meeting in their area, are most likely competing to attract boys from their community.. That means a dent in the councils membership numbers.. My advice would be for them to take training both on-line and in person and start figuring out the ins and outs of the heirachy of positions within their unit and within their council.. Otherwise they will probably have another blow out with this CO, COR or council. As for where they can meet.. I would ask the new council how they figure it.. They should be working with this group, so can tell them if there really is anything about them holding their meetings in a location out of council, or if the old council is just sputtering due to ruffled feathers.

Why stop at 4 jblake? We have had alot of #5.. And a few at #6.. The #6 ones really keep the forum lively!

Well BSA24 don't be too hard on SP.. This last post of his, shows an ability to start opening up to a possibility, rather then an attitude, of "never could/should/would happen.".. I saw alot of positive hope in SP's statements.

What qwazse & josryan said.. The COR makes the decision to hire or fire.. They may just defer to the committees recommendation. But, in order to replace the CM, the new CM must fill out an Adult App for the position & the COR must sign it thereby stating he/she has agreed to the change.. If the COR does not want the change, the only next step up is the Institutional Head (normally the preist if a church, or the top dog of whatever organization you are chartered with.).. They can trump the COR.. After that no one can trump the IH, from Council or National or whatever (Unless they pull someone for youth protection or being a homosexual).. So your Council can not choose to leave someone as CM that your COR or IH does not want.. If they did in paperwork, that does not mean your Pack need to follow their paperwork, follow the adult leadership you have registered for. But, it would be odd if they had any preference to who your CM is. They are too far removed to care who you have.. Now if they like your present CM, then they can give him a position on district or Council boards.. But, what do they care who your CM is.. Now I can see them loosing the paperwork, and never getting it into the computer system. That is typical at any council.. You just roll your eyes and resubmit the missing paperwork.. As someone else said, as a taxpayer.. Your council can not tell you you can not have events at any public place in or out of your council or district.. (If that was what your taxpayer comment was in reference too..) Otherwise, BSA has nothing to do with you being a tax payer.. It is a private Organization, not a public or govenment org.. If you want to change Packs you are not bound to the ones in your town or school district. You are free to go to anyout outside your town/school district.. It is just up to you how far you wish to drive for a good pack.

That use to be my job when I was in the troop.. Summer camp registrations for MB the boys wanted, payments and Med forms.. Payments were a pain, but the worst were the med forms.. Each year the camps also got more & more picky.. First year, I am not sure they even looked them over. Second year, looked for insurance info (which was forgotten half the time), next year it was something else.. By the 3rd year, I had to check over about 5 to 7 things on the form before accepting it. I always had at least 2 or 3 med forms that were not done and parents had to bring with them (in triplicate) to camp.. If they came with son & no med form, they left with son still in tow.. We never car pooled to camp. Each parent brought their own son up.. Normally we were close enough, and if the med form was not turned in early enough for the Nurse to have checked it over the week before camp, and state what was missing.. Parents stayed until the med form was approved by the Nurse.

Ahhh.. But, 5yearScouter.. At an FOS function, the food is never free.. It is for a sizable donation.

BSA24 -- The statement is simply reflecting on those who wish to keep atheists out, pointing to the fact that when they register they sign that they believe in a God, and have do my duty to God.. Therefore when someone is in the BSA for a while then admit, on the forum or such they are an atheist.. You have people on the forum, getting all bent out of shape with their lying every time they take the oath, and blah.. blah.. blah.. Through some of the reaction I have envisioned some people turning red in the face and close to heart failure over it. I personally don't mind atheists who are tolerant and respectful of others having the belief in God, and finding ways to co-exist eventually being allowed in.. Those who are enrolled secretly are definitely co-existing.. So, just allow them and others to do it without the secrecy.. Even accept their silence for phrases using God.. But, if I am willing to accept them not saying God, they would need to be equally accepting of my wish to say God.. I do agree with SP, God should not be removed from the oath or pledge to placate one group while disrespecting another group. (one that has been in the group since its inception.) Now there is also a piece in the registration that states "The applicant must possess the moral, educational, and emotional qualities that the Boy Scouts of America deems necessary to afford positive leadership to youth".. But, BSA has verbally stated a "Don't ask, Don't tell" and the policy is because they want the sexual discussions at home (and somehow if an adult knows your gay, that means your discussing being a homosexual with the kids). But anyway.. All their flowery words, to try to say, we are not prejudice, we just don't want to know if they are amongst us.. States as that as long as they follow the "Don't ask, Don't tell", then they are Okay with BSA, thereby they pass BSA somewhat immature ideas on what they deems moral. (At least in the PR sense of the word.)

Ok.. I will change that.. and many in todays society (and continually increasing) see that homosexuals as outstanding citizens, role models and family members.. Therefore they see nothing wrong with their morals..

I was always told that BSA main group was white middle-class.. And it is always trying to attract other demographics. That is part of the problem with a "Don't ask, Don't tell" rule.. It is not like the the athiest where you are required to believe in a God of some sort, and are breaking the scout oath to be in scouts and not disclose it.. There is nothing in the Scout law that pertains to them proclaiming to be "totally hetersexual".. And many homosexuals do believe themselves morally straight, as they don't see homosexuality as compromising there morals at all.. So they follow the "Don't ask, Don't tell" rule.. Become role models in BSA (most maybe locally, few nationally).. And when they finish with BSA they are open about being homosexual, and BSA is made to look really foolish, for stating this person that for years was "one of them", and held in high regards.. Was really also "One of them".. "Oh my, they could be both!!!".. Well shucks! Who would have thunk???

Normally their is one COR.. I would have said their is one COR, but I was talking to an LDS group at the WB I staffed and it sounded like with LDS one church could have a different COR per Unit..?? Not sure though, some in the LDS units were kind of hazy on their own program.. This group were great fun, and full of excitement.. I really think this experience of grouping with fellow LDS adult leaders of the BSA program who really wanted to do the program right did them good.. But, it was definate they had let the turkeys of their group get them down.. One guy was unsure what to do for his ticked as he was on the committee, and did not have a job of any sort.. So, I talked to him about trying to get the CC to give him a job between course weekend.. Came back he was all set.. He found out the he WAS the Committee Chair, read up on what a CC does, and had a committee to organize for his ticket.. I was joking with another LDS member about it, and he said very seriously.. That is not surprising at all.. That is alot of times how the LDS boy scout program will operate.. Well I think we did some LDS pockets in our neck of the woods some a great big needed boost.. I hope it grows and expands and we can have more WB courses offered to them. But, anyway.. Back to topic.. Pers some LDS I talked to, they say they have different COR per every unit in a church, not just every church.. Now if that is the case, if they did want to go to a Council meeting to vote, that would be stacking the deck!. PS.. We have had a sprinkling of active COR's as I think I mentioned before our past COR was a hot ticket.. Had her hands in everything, and did a lot at the distict & Council levels. I was on staff with a COR, it was his 2nd time staffing.. And the recent LDS WB program had alot of COR's attend.. but it seemed that when a unit or church decided to attend, they came out in full force, COR's, SM, CM, assitants and all the committee from the unit came.. We may have had like 3 or 4 full units, and a sprinkling of one-sy, two-sy people..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Few guys look good in shorts, nobby, hairy knees.. but if their comfortable.. Ok.. Then add to that knee socks! Don't know what it is.. Whether the look just kindof defeats the purpose of wearing shorts in the first place, or it reminds me of the look of teenage girls who wore skirts & dresses with knee socks when I grew up (before pants were either exceptable to school or parents).. But then there are other things I don't think much of in mens fashions.. Take mens dress shoes, they are all ugly.. Husband goes shopping for dress shoes and wants my opinion if these look better or those.. Sorry honey, they all look pretty ugly to me.

WOW.. Takei will be joined by his husband Brad So he is gay!!.. And was a Scoutmaster!.. And between his being a SM and his standing in the community, BSA thought enough of him to make him a spokesperson for scouting... In other words, he is living, breathing proof that you can be gay and a great role model for our youth in boy scouts!.. In other words a black eye to BSA because it is proof they are wrong.. Well I guess that takes him off the list in the other post as to who should be the Cheif Scout.. Some of us would still be fine with it, but I don't think BSA can go from -50 to 100 in a very short time span. Sort of like this week the opposition against Gay marriage had an embarrassment when one of it's major spokespersons, David Blankenhorn (president of the New York-based Institute for American Values) publically decided to switch sides in support of gay marriage.. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/22/david-blankenhorn-prop-8-supporter-gay-marriage-_n_1620217.html Let me say that again as it sounds pretty good.. President of the Institute for American Values.... President of American Values SP.. I think Takei will be surprised to be defined as white. It's also suprising to see so many people jumping from being conservative to being liberal.. Not so good in an election year, huh? (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

I wondered to skeptic. I thought it was maybe a reporter who didn't quite get the information straight and was grappling with the acronyms that were unfamilure to them.. Possibly meant first ASM.. Maybe?.. First women adult leader when they were finally allowed in..

Congradulations on their 100 years.. The article tried to make them look good, but to me showed, the troop needs some improvement.. Sounds like they are all about classroom meritbadges.. Aviation may be a great and rare one to get, but should not be offered that way.. I would have tossed it as a rare occurance due a rare opportunity.. but the article went on to cement that this is the norm for how they work MB's in this troop.. Sort of hits that neither troop nor reporter knew this was not something that would make the troop look good. They do redeem themselves with the rule that parents can't go on the first year campout, in order to reduce overpowering parents that may be more prominent in the Washington area.. (although I am sure others will reverse my good bad with "can't restrict parents from going if they want too.") Sounds like they had a few interesting times in their history also.

Yep, I would discuss it with the camp program director. And if they have no concern, then let the pd know that it will be brought up to the district & council level advancment chairs (which maybe won't be much of a threat if you are in a camp outside your own council.) I know our District & council level advancement discuss the camp merit badges with the pd before camp starts, and after camp ends.. The bring up any complaints and really attempt to make sure that the meritbadges are run right. I know recently the camp had to change how they did the fishing MB because the scouts did not do the cleaning of fish requirement. I don't know why, but they still don't clean a fish caught.(not enough stock in the pond they fish in??).. But the camp now has on hand fish they buy for the purpose of the boys doing the fish cleaning requirement. They have had to change other MB's to conform, or drop the MB if they could not.. I know our Council would be all over the pd for a merit badge given on the first day, for the scouts just showing up!

bnelon wrote : You can embellish a merit badge counseling all you want, you just can't make it mandatory to achieving the badge since that would be adding a requirement. I believe that is what I said, with the added clause that MBC can accept to be the MBC of a scout or not.. So if they have a sense that the boy wants a one-and-done, or a "fill in the blanks" and get a MB sign-off, and this is not the way the MBC works, they can politely tell the boy he would be better off with a different MBC.

Something a MBC can do if they want to bring a MB to life, rather then read from a pamplet, or do a "one-and-done" method. When the boy calls or walks up to them to ask if they can take the MB with them, they can explain how they cover the merit badge to add more indepth understanding & knowledge to it. If the boy wishes to persue it with them, then they are forewarned and have accepted the extras. Now the MBC can eiter choose to work with the ones that do not want the added info in the one-and-done method, or they can let the boy know they would be better off with a different MBC. I don't remember if I read it, or if it was in a MB counsilor class. But, you are welcome to ask the boy if they would like to see or do extra and let them decide. I myself dislike it when someone comes to me with the blasted worksheet filled in and just expect me to read it and sign them off on it and on the first visit expect to be in and out in 5 to 10 minutes with me.. It is very hard to work around the one-and-done mentality when that happens, and I suspect most of what they wrote down was googled.. I still stive to pull away from it somewhat, but is something that is a drain on a productive learning style. My husband says he likes the worksheets.. Bah, humbug!.. He had to answer the DE's inquiry about someone stating that the worksheets have replaced the blue cards, and was trying to get their whole unit & MBC's to change to doing MB only using the worksheet.. Husband started the email stating they did not replace the bluecard, but then tried to put that worksheets were a great tool, that organized the boys before coming to the MBC.. I (in my wifely fashion) had him change that to while some MBC's may like them, some MBC's do not and have the right to ask the scout to not use them if they wish to do the badge with them. It may be the type of Meritbadges my husband does verses what I do that we have different perspectives. He does swimming, lifesaving and camping.. I do communication and family life.. With his (especially swimming & lifesaving) only a fraction can be done through the worksheet. Where as mine (especially the communication one).. The boy can have the whole thing done through a worksheet before the very first meeting takes place.. Family life not so much, but what they have to do is with their family not me, so I still may end up with my dealings with them being the worksheet and other paperwork (3 month tracker and reports..).. With no worksheets I get great discussions, with worksheets I get some disappointed boys who do not wish to enter into discussions with me (even when the requirement says "discuss with your counsilor"), simply want me to read their worksheets and sign them off. It has occured the other way though also. I know my sons friend ended up in a "Cit. & the World" MB course where the MBC handed him the worksheet and expected him to fill it out to get signed off on it.. The MBC was hiding his lack of knowledge behind the worksheet. The scout ditched the MBC, and we looked for an MBC who would bring the merit badge to life.

Well our OA meets monthly (an at our roundtables!).. But, they are not usually the SPL's who are going to the OA meetings.. Our troop sometimes invited other troops to things.. Maybe just a campfire to socialize, or a bowling night.. Boys would socialize then.. Don't know about an official SPL Roundtable though.. The SM would have to have two deep leadership to take the boy, the parents probably would not take the boy due to the distance and waiting around (unless your district is inner city and is the size of a postage stamp, ours is not), so mid-way roundtable is a long drive for many.. We promoted troops have their SPL's go visit other troops on the other's troops meeting night to get ideas from each other.. (If you are a really sad troop and fear loosing boys to the other troop, rather then exciting them to follow some of the ideas in the other troop then take them to visit a troop that is a distance away half an hour or hour ride..)

I would be fine with it going to the unit account to pay for awards & events etc for all the boys I would also be upset if told it would be to pay for one parents bounced check.. Then you are saying it is not going to your boy, it is going to that boy who has untrustworthy parents.. It would have been much better had your treasure not earmarked the money for that purpose. If it was for membership fees, then I would still push for the money from the parents who owed it.. If they do not rectify the error (in cash, as I am sure the bounced check cost the pack) Then anything that boy earns should go to pay for what he owes the pack, and not to his scout account for camp.