moosetracker

Yeah, I realized it after posting it.. I meant to say, bring 2 year old over boarder.. Instance citizenship (for whole family).. But, I posted and took off for somewhere, thought about it in the car, but by the time I got back I.. A) couldn't change it as it was posted over an hour back. b) forgot about it.. Of course as stated the whole thing is broken .. Once the put feet on American soil, it is very hard to get them deported (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

No, it's that he was a spokesperson for BSA, but now he is openly gay (people commented he was always open about it, even when he was on startrek, so he was openly gay as a SM and the spokesperson.) and he and his husband are in support of the lady who was kicked out due to her sexual orientation. Why? you want to go back to the original topic??.. It has some congruency.. It's a topic on all things that liberals and conservatives constantly fight about.

If your son is fine with it, go with it.. Some people think the ECOH is like a wedding ceremony, and has to be all about the boy.. But, if some can hold ECOH's right with normal COH, then it need not be an exclusive all about the boy.. I have never been to a COH/ ECOH, but my guess is they just do one ceramony and then the other.. Possibly the MC can comment that as your son work his towards his Eagle rank, you had taken on your own path and project to earn what some people have called the adults equivelent of an Eagle award.. (I personally think it is more equivilent to maybe the Eagle project, and not the whole path from Tenderfoot through Eagle ranks.. But it is a well known saying.) I might suggest yours goes first though so his is the climax of the occasion.(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Hi RichardB.. Glad to see you wading into the shark infested waters again.. That shows guts and is to be respected.

Welcome. I use to spend my summers in a rural area in IL.. I think the town name was spelled Tuscola (at least it was pronounced that way..) Main street was still a brick road (and though not a spring chick it is not because I am THAT old.. It was a novalty even in my day.) We had a similar topic last week.. Did not get too many responses, but perhaps you can refire the topic back up, so we can get more. Anyway the link below will give you what was stated on that thread.. http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=355570

Peregrinator It's not a matter of regimenting lives. How does an employer not paying for something mean that the employee can't do it? My employer doesn't pay for me to get my hair cut, yet I'm still free to get one (or not). Nor does he pay for my car, but I am still free to travel. Will your employer fire you for getting a hair cut, or buying a car? Will the Catholics have the right to fire anyone who walks into the insurance company to sign up for the add-on insurance?. After all, they wouldn't do that without having the intent to sin. So stop belly aching, the Catholics can now just make all their employees sign an agreement, they will not get the add-on insurance. SP.. I am not a fan of the immigration changes either. It means if the kid stays, the parents stay.. Cross the boarder 8 mths pregnat and drop the kid, instance citizenship.. But, face it, we just aren't hard on immegration with or without the changes.. They all get to stay, unless they commit a crime. But, as to the Catholics and Obamacare, they are just assuming the worse. Until they sit down, hash it out and get to a point neither side will budge, they don't know how the add-on insurance will work.. Then who cares, they can simply fire any employee who gets the extra insurance anyway.

She never told students anything.. She was asked about it by co-worker, who was a nun, who for years supported and wish her well as a friend.. The nun brought it up to another adult who took offense.. It is not my employeers buisness what I choose to do in my personal life, if it is descreet and not public, nor is it her employeers business.. It only became public knowledge AFTER she was fired.. She also has a right to use sick days, for health care treatment, whether elective of necessary.. I can use sick time for a normal scheduled Dr. apptments, or elective surgery, even if I choose to get cosmetic surgery for a face lift, or a boob job. Not my employers buisness.

You missed the other part of that piece. They fired a women due to her personal decision (between herself, her husband, her doctor) to try an insemination process the catholics disapproved of.. None of their buisness what she choose to do.. If catholics fear some of that add on insurance is somehow effecting them in a trickle down effect.. Raise the co-pay to meet it.. Then the employee is still paying for it. But, I would imagine the insurance company would have to show some sort of proof that they are paying $20 less per person (or whatever they figure the insurance for that part is) then the employer who is paying for the insurance.. There would need to be some proof of good faith.. Problem is, they don't want to sit down and discuss and work out what would be the proof of good faith that would be acceptable to them.. They would rather moan and groan and talk about being persecuted..

Ahhh... Well yes, if you choose now not to pay your normal income tax, the government will come after you.. If you want to resist arrest, and shoot it out with the coppers, well, yes you are right, they may shoot back.. But, that is different then choosing not to pay the additional tax for not having medical, being jailed or held up at gunpoint by the IRS until you cough up the money.. It's simple! Quit your job, go live in a cave like a hermit and eat berries, and squirrel and things.. Better yet, don't resist arrest.. Go to jail.. Free room, board, medical and no taxes to pay!.. Thing is this is not the first thing government (Federal, State and City) has regulated us to do. It will not be the last thing.. Mitt Romney was for the same insurance when he was Gov. of MA.. If he got into office, he may tweak it here or there.. May even find a way to get it to be the States responsibility rather then Federal.. But, remove it entirely.. No way.. And he can talk tough all he wants, if he thinks he can make sweeping changes without congress approval, then he really doesn't know what the job of President is all about. Most likely he does know, and he just thinks those who will vote for him are stupid.. It is sort of like the High School class president with the campaign speech.. 'Vote for me, and I will have the cafeteria feed us nothing but ice cream, candy bars and soda for lunch. I will also make sure everyone gets released from school at noon.' Obama (for good or bad) couldn't get much of what he promised due to the opposition of the Congress. People hate Congress more then Obama.. Even if Romney get president, the whole congress will also do a flip and he will have the same battles Obama did to get anything passed or changed.. Our government has been paralyzed for years way before Obama, with this type of political battle..

Well, OK.. On further thought, there may be a way they can wrestle the tax out of you.. But, not with the threat of jail or by holding you up with a gun. This is only speculation, nothing I read that says they will or the wont do this, but I suspect if you are due a tax refund, say $2000 dollars without the no Insurance tax, and your no Insurance tax was $1000 dollars.. My guess would be you will only see a $1000 tax refund.. In other words, I would imagine you will not be able to indicate somewhere on your tax forms that you choose not to pay the no Insurance tax so you do not want it to be deducted from your refund.

If you refuse to pay the tax, you will be arrested. If you refuse to be arrested for something so absurd, you will be held at gunpoint. Right there shows you are listening to retoric and scare tactics (and lies) from the opposing side.. 1) you will get tax.. 2) Refuse to pay the tax and nothing happens... NOTHING the tax is not like the rest of your income tax.. It has no teeth to it.. Personnally, don't know it's purpose, as those not paying the health insurance, will not pay the tax.. (and where ever did you get the gunpoint scare tactic?.. That is absurd!.. You are not held at gunpoint for anything, even if you are a mass murderer!.. You better drop that off your story, if you want to try to continue with the scare tactic and make it believable to someone who does not read or listen to the news for themselves.)(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

No, but the same pricipal applies. Catholic hospitals & schools take government funding, and their employees are not just little old nuns, but the normal taxpaying working class.. They are running businesses.. And, Catholics buisnesses don't have to put it on their health insurance, just their employees can get an add-on for it through the insurance company.. So they don't have to sully their hands.. I know, I know they would prefer regimenting their employees lives be they Catholic or jewish or atheist, like the women they fired because she went for a medical procedure they disapproved of..

Well, as stated if it is then it would not be used by me.. If they are seasoned and know their stuff, it will not mean much to them.. If they are green, it would (like you said), carry the wrong message, as well as adding confusion to an already confusing time for them.. Like I really want them to go home, overwhelmed and remembering little except that they got checked off for what they did at the class. I will have to look at that again. All I remember is a checklist with no explanation of what it was for anywhere in the book.. We still don't need IOLs or any training except YPT to recharter.. Our council will never mandate it on their own, and it looks more and more like National will never mandate it either. All we have for incentives to take it is journey to excellence. Oh.. And I agree WB doesn't really build on other training, as it takes all positions and all programs.. But at least it is a week long course emersing you in what they want your to learn, and you have 1 1/2 years with ticket items in order to put the training into practice.. Much more thorough then the weekend training or day course or 1/2 hour video training. (This message has been edited by moosetracker)

JMHawkins - Since WB is really not about scoutcraft but more how to get a working vision of your unit, and put the plan in action and motivate others to work with you toward the goal.. Does it really need more time in ScoutCraft??... I don't think so.. In fact you get Committee people, Cub Scout leaders, COR's etc, that never take the scoutcraft part of the program.. Anyway, if your in IOLS, doesn't mean you are not a seasoned scouter.. Many finally come to IOLS after haveing been SM for years and in scouts for years before becoming SM that.. If you aren't ready, at least you get to know when you are ready, there might be something else for you to try down the road.

As far as I am aware the checkoff list is to use for someone who is testing out, so they don't have to take the course (if your council allows a testout that is..) Not worth it to pull out for IOLS.. If they know it coming in.. Ok, but really when you are racing them through the firehose method, who has time to play a game of check-offs.. If they are green coming in, they are green going out with 100 items running through their overloaded brains.. I always tell the green ones to look at it as a course that gives them a little hands on, and an overall view of what they will need to work on with others in their troop after they return from the course.

bnelon The original purpose of the GTA was to teach Councils how to administer advancement and what the policies and proceedures are. Since the 1930s there has been some kind of guide like this available to the councils. It has now been made readable so that interested unit leaders can understand it. I like that statement.. Per benlon, unit leaders only need read it if interested.. And (if like Beavah), they do bother and find it a bunch of Twaddle, they can drop kick it.. I am also laughing about the "readable" part.. Readable sort of like the Bible, in that there are many ways to interpret the same sentence.. Some more creative then others.

jpstodwftexas - Ask your council about that, if someone here does not confirm it.. But I have a hazy recollection that if you have brothers in the troop, you can just order the magazine for one of them, and still get the 100% boys life ribbon.. I myself had only one child go through, so it was sort of in one ear and out the other..

Good luck.. But, seriously just be yourself.. Know it is a tough job with lots of hours weekend, evenings etc.. Lots of Social skills, lots of political skill, lots of financial/statical/managerial skills.. What can you bring to the table?

Peregrinator - are you hinting that now that they have started to win in some of the battles to remove government funding and public org. support from BSA, they should now stop protesting against BSA policy? Problem is, BSA is not totally weened off the milk.. BSA fights hard to stay on the milk, and in some places where aide was removed by one politician, it was put back by another politician.. The tail end of that paragraph was.. Though these have inner wars all their own. BSA is absolutely not severed from depending on government and public orgs. As long as they are using it, and as long as THEY feel they have a right to it.. Then, they will be subject to public opinion to get them to change. The court may say they are a private org.. But as long as they are using tax dollars, in the court of public opinion, they are not.. So the public has a right to voice their opinion about them.

Easy, you don't advance anyone.. Not needed. The SM son was not into advancement, so the SM thought it was no big thing to just throw advancement out and run it like a boys club or something. Adult lead (no POR's for the boys, except for SM's son was SPL, he got to pass out the handouts the adults made up.. that was the SPL's job).. Nothing else was run per BSA ypt or anything else.. Boys never had to pick a patrol site, or pitch a tent either. One large family tent and the SM slept with the boys, don't know about all the other 2nd Adult leaders. When my husband went, he brought his own pup tent, and we got our son his own pup tent so he did not have to sleep with the SM.. Sometimes 2nd Adult leader was some friend of the SM, unknown and unrelated to anyone in the pack.. etc. etc.

I am just wondering how taxing this will be on his time/energy. don't have him jump in and be a Uc for 2 or 3 Co.. Start with only one, most likely it will end up being a pack & Troop combo.. A good UC for average units visits about once a month to something, make sure the units know he is there, and makes contact info available for them to call or email him with.. If he is given a unit that is already collapsing then it is more then that, in order to help them regroup.. A great UC may be more visual.. A bad UC is when the unit scratches their head and says "You mean we have a UC?.. Never met the guy! Who is he?"

Dont laugh Brewmeister, my son was in a troop like that (less than a year before we moved out).. Of course they were not Hmmm.. I guess my whole Council has gone rogue per fred & bnelon.. I say this because last year I was the WB staff member who had to do the presentation on leading change.. In one area of my speech I compared the volunteers and program of BSA with JFK & the moon mission, Martin Luther King and civil rights, Margaret Thatcher changes in government and putting the English people back to work during recession, as well as Walt Disney.. All of them had a mission and a vision directed by their leaders.. But, they were not micro managed by their leaders, that they just couldnt be and obtain the same sweeping reforms and creative output.. Got into different styles in different groups.. Such as with Disney your prime objective was to make things family oriented, wholesome for the kids, but enough insight and creativity to entertain the adults.. But, you had the director of Fantasia creating his own cameras, to get impossible shots and Robin Williams free to ad lib as the genie in Aladdin and artists and engineers building state of the art robotics in Disney land & Disney world.. On and On.. Then I took it to the BSA and what was similar about being a volunteer in BSA and being a member in one of these great pioneers groups. The answer was we all had the BSA vision statement and Mission Statement, but each one of our units could interpret the vision a little differently, and organize differently based on our skills and interests. Therefore if I visit troop A, then visit troop B.. Id be surprise to see much similar accept a general outline and concept of what a Boy Scout troop is.. All will go in different directions based on their own interpretation of the BSA vision and mission statements. Sorry, I never mentioned BSA guide books, or following micro-managing bureaucracy. Nor did anyone else in any other presentations done.. Why should we. The function was to excite and inspire and send these guys out into the world to do great things.. Why would we box them in to rules, regulations and micro-management? I got applauded, which I thought was typical, until one of the seasoned WB staffers came up to me afterwords to compliment me, and stated Did you hear that applause?.. That was not the typical applause! You nailed it, and these guys really got it. After that, I heard from others on staff many seasoned Council & district members who said I was dead on.. So, Troop # 1 is good if they are happy and following their vision.. Troop # 2 is good if they are happy and following their vision.. Troop #3, #4 & #5 would also be good.. The troop who is failing would be the one loosing boys, and totally adult lead, and not following any possible interpretation of BSA Mission & Vision statement.. Most likely never even read or heard of them. PS.. I also do IOLS & SM Specifics.. IOLS is all about trying to teach skills in a firehose method to those totally green. Nothing about how to advance their scouts or following G2A, a small blurb on G2SS (small).. SM Specifics.. Heres some books that might help you (in with other books is G2SS & G2A).. Neither syllabus has us going into long speeches to break open either book and read out rules & regs and interpret the meaning of them for them. As far as I'm concerned they will help give them an idea on how to set up their program, but they are not the Holy Grail..(This message has been edited by moosetracker)

Actually if you read the article they are starting to do just that. Along with other government and public agencies.. Though these have inner wars all their own. But, the point is my state will not take money from the government, in order to not follow government strings attached. BSA takes the money, therefore.. BSA is subject to public outcry and public interference in attempting to reform it.. Maybe the Supreme court says it is private, but as long as it takes government money, and tries to have other public organizations support it, it is subject to public opinion.. Long story short, BSA should not take public funds, or ask for public assistance from schools and what not.. Then all BSA would have to deal with is the increasing number of their own members pushing for reform, because they feel it is against the Scout oath and law. I don't see much of the public trying to change the Masonic Lodges.. Although some will say they are a satanic cult or have other conspiracy theories against it. They are anti-women, anti-atheist, and most likely anti-homosexual.

There you go messing up church with business again.. And with that I even agreed for elective procedures if the catholic hospitals do not want to participate fine, because there are other places the person can go to to get the abortion or contraception. as long as they don't have hangups over emergancy care, like a pregnat women in a car accident where it is they may need to perform an abortion to save the mothers life. No I mean like the LDS churches who would allow blacks as members, but not as church official long after blacks had equality elsewhere.. Did it change .. Yes.. But outsiders did not push for change. It was their own members who pushed the change. Perhaps, eventually the Catholic members will push from within for change, but the outsiders will not.. BSA like catholic hospitals have blurred the lines of if it is public or private, By taking government assistance, and so is open to similar scrutiny. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,164547,00.html True if BSA did make it local option, the public would insist the schools or other public organization be open to all if they host a scout unit. But, if hosted by the church or other private organization, they can run with whatever outdated or predjudicial beliefs the private organization holds, until their own members bring about the reform.

OK to have them purchase BSA uniforms and handbooks etc.. You are putting your units (and your CO's) non-profit status in jeapordy to allow htem to buy camping gear & hiking boots.. They may be things they could use in BSA, but they are things they can use just as well out of BSA.. Therefore you are giving profit to an individual.. Most likely you wont get caught, the government has better things to do then track down the nickle & dime operations.. But, slipping under the radar is not really honest or trustworthy.